Where do we go from here?

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

We have a number of problems that are not easy to fix.  We concede too many goals and are vulnerable to crosses, but we don’t have a number of top centre half’s to pick from hence we are playing a midfielder and a left back in the back three.  The second problem is the lack of an international level goal scorer.  Nobody knocking on the door for that position that I can see so that will not change any time soon.

Actually, Hendry, Hanley and Cooper are good solid centre halves - a massive upgrade on Mulgrew, Devlin and Findlay that Clarke started his reign with. No need really to play McTom there IMO, he needs to play in his Man U role if we play him. Not sure that he is an automatic pick any more anyway. Don't forget the players wanted to play in a back 3 because we were shipping goals, and we needed to shoe horn Tierney in. I think we need to find the right players to fit in to a 4-2-3-1 system which is what most of the top teams are playing now.

[kumnio]

58 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

Hindsight of course, but there is no doubt we shat it in the opening game, far to timid. I'll not be convinced we dont have the players required that could and should have got us out that group. The general acceptance we have is utterly pathetic. 

Agreed. 

Keep reading that we don’t have the players required, and we need a Bale to ever do anything, despite the fact that the good Bale is long gone, and didn’t score. 

Our acceptance of being shite is pathetic. We somehow need to play like this and be solid at the back, despite our defence never being water tight, we have made zero progress under Clarke, all we have done is become even worse to watch.

Qatar is gone, Clarke’s inability to win games has already seen to that, and he will go at the end of this year IMO, we are just kicking the can down the road under him right now. 

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Link is on the YouTube blog thread.

Do you have a link for the youtube blog thread? Ta.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said:

I was hopeful that all this time together as a group would bring benefits for the WC qualifiers. It’s hard to see that we’ve made any progress. We’ve got a flat line of centre halves that don’t engage the opposition leaving the midfielders with too much work to do. We either go four at the back or one up front or we’ll continue to ship soft goals. 

Gilmour and Patterson will go some way to improving us but there are some fundamentals not sorted out. Croatia were poor at the back and couldn’t deal with a high tempo, but we were left knackered by having to plug too many gaps. 

I thought the plan was that McTom and Tierney move up to augment the middle three? So what happened to that? I wonder if 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 is the way to go.

[Jim Beem]

42 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I don't buy the lack of quality player argument either - we have 10 guys in the EPL at least plus 4-5 in Celtic and Rangers who'll be playing European football supplemented by Championship players.  

Against Switzerland, who're ranked 4th I think, Wales had a keeper who has barely played behind a back four consisting of two Championship players, a centre half with 10 games for a leaky Spurs and Ben Davies whose second choice at Spurs and would arguably be third choice for us.  

In midfield Joe Allen has been pish all season, another centre midfielder from Luton, a Championship winger and a Championship lump up top who is probably not as good as Adams.   However because they've got a quick bloke from Man U who struggles for game time plus Bale and Ramsey in decline it masks their overall deficiencies.  They're not better than us because they have those three but because they get a better tune out of what they have at their disposal which meant they got out of a tough group, with Turkey almost playing at home, relatively comfortably.    

Wales come out organised and extremely focussed, if they go down, they go down swinging. As a football team and frankly as a nation in general we lack these qualities. A chunk of our country want us to lose for fuck sake 😂🤦🏻 We are a total embarssment. 

[Och Aye]

It'd be crazy not to stick with Clarke. Firstly we now have a manager and squad with tournament experience. (I do  think he will privately regret not playing the two up front in our must win fixture against the Czechs, it could just have made the difference) . Secondly I don't see an alternative, there won't be top managers falling over themselves for the Scotland job and then you have the SFA who do absolutely no research and have even appointed guys with personal issues in recent times. 

Talking of issues. Our only natural goalscorer Griffiths will be sitting with his head in his hands in fews years looking back and saying what the f*ck have I done. Could have been such a great time for him and Scotland with the chances we've created. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Och Aye

[Jim Beem]

Just now, Och Aye said:

It'd be crazy not to stick with Clarke. Firstly we now have a manager and squad with tournament experience. (I do  think he will privately regret not playing the two up front in our must win fixture against the Czechs, it could just have made the difference) . Secondly I don't see an alternative, there won't be top managers falling over themselves for the Scotland job and then you have the SFA who've done absolutely no research and appointed guys with personal issues in recent times. 

Talking of issues. Our only natural goalscorer Griffiths will be sitting with his head in his hands in fews years looking back and saying what the f*ck have I done. Could have been such a great time for him and Scotland with the chances we've created. 

Funnily enough, and tragically, The SFA sum us up as a country. Riddled with cunts that are weak and consumed by self-interest. 

[syecosse]

Going forward we have a number of top players but a few positions that are not strong, hopefully Gilmour and Patterson play regularly now, and Clarke plays them, Jack coming back, add in a few players that might start pushing for the Squad especially if they get regular games like Hickey, Wright, Holsgrove, just hope a couple of Keepers and strikers to  emerge hopefully this season, we have a number of youngsters on the fringes of big teams that hopefully kick on or get good loans. 

[Third Lanark]

49 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I don't buy the lack of quality player argument either - we have 10 guys in the EPL at least plus 4-5 in Celtic and Rangers who'll be playing European football supplemented by Championship players.  

Against Switzerland, who're ranked 4th I think, Wales had a keeper who has barely played behind a back four consisting of two Championship players, a centre half with 10 games for a leaky Spurs and Ben Davies whose second choice at Spurs and would arguably be third choice for us.  

In midfield Joe Allen has been pish all season, another centre midfielder from Luton, a Championship winger and a Championship lump up top who is probably not as good as Adams.   However because they've got a quick bloke from Man U who struggles for game time plus Bale and Ramsey in decline it masks their overall deficiencies.  They're not better than us because they have those three but because they get a better tune out of what they have at their disposal which meant they got out of a tough group, with Turkey almost playing at home, relatively comfortably.    

And don't forget they had to appoint a new manager after the Giggs debacle. Maybe the fact they have recent tournament experience helped them too. Lesson for us is we need to build round our exceptional players and assemble a group of reliable journeymen with experience.

[er yir macaroon]

6 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I thought the plan was that McTom and Tierney move up to augment the middle three? So what happened to that? I wonder if 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 is the way to go.

I think that was the plan in possession but out of it they sat deep and gave lots of space to the opposition. 

[Caledonian Craig]

10 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Do you have a link for the youtube blog thread? Ta.

 

[Templeton_Peck]

Play 343 formation and play with defenders who are comfortable on the ball. Tierney, Hanley and Cooper for me.

Let Mctominay and Gilmour develop a relationship in the middle of park. Ryan Jack in there also against top sides. 

Play Patterson or Fraser at right wing back. 

Play two creative players such as Turnbull, Christie, Mcginn, Forrest, Fraser either side of a striker who would be Che Adams for me. Only 1 against the top sides. 

Lyndon Dykes is your plan b off the bench if you need to go long. 

 

 

 

 

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, COLT NY said:

I remain a big fan of Steve Clarke. He's brought us a long way considering we were losing 3-0 to Kazakhstan and making Russia look like Brazil earlier in the tournament.

That said, today's performance was shocking and how he didn't see it needed to be changed before the game was away from us I'll never know. I also can't believe how poor our corners and free kicks were throughout the tournament and even in the pre-tournament friendlies. Why set plays in dead ball attacking situations weren't developed is hard to fathom. We completely wasted about 95% of these chances without coming remotely close to looking like scoring.

I'd be really disappointed if he left though. I think he's got the makings of a good team, and if he learns from the clear errors that were made in this tournament he can be a very good manager for us.

On your point about set pieces and corners. We had 2 corners in the first 2 mins. I know its all ifs and buts , but we would have had them rattled if we had scored from one of them and their composure could have been knocked. We weren’t handed the corners on a plate, we worked for them, but we then go on to waste so many opportunities it is shameful. We seem unable to header balls as well. 

 

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

14 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

Wales come out organised and extremely focussed, if they go down, they go down swinging. As a football team and frankly as a nation in general we lack these qualities. A chunk of our country want us to lose for fuck sake 😂🤦🏻 We are a total embarssment. 

Wales also have someone in charge that's shouldn't even be in the top job, yet are still doing well

[Rolling hIlls]

55 minutes ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

I copied it from where you had quoted it yourself. I was addressing the person who posted it, not you.

 

I know you're an Old Firm supporter and are used to thinking that it's all about you.

 

But it isn't.

Your quote said rolling hills said. And I never said it. Why not quote the poster? Instead of cutting and pasting.

[ProudScot]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graeme-souness-slams-steve-clarkes-24377266
 

Honest and very accurate from Graeme Souness 

[Jim Beem]

Another point on the Wales thing that they have 1 or 2 world class players in Bale and Ramsey. 

Ramsey got his first cap at 17 and was a regular, he captained the team when he was 20. Billy Gilmour is 20 and we only gave him his first cap 2 weeks ago. We really are timid shitebags.

[ProudScot]

3 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

Another point on the Wales thing that they have 1 or 2 world class players in Bale and Ramsey. 

Ramsey got his first cap at 17 and was a regular, he captained the team when he was 20. Billy Gilmour is 20 and we only gave him his first cap 2 weeks ago. We really are timid shitebags.

Ah but we know best though and players have to serve their apprenticeships behind the O’Donnells and McLeans.

Meanwhile Wales qualify for the knockout stages of yet another tournament. 

[Third Lanark]

25 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

Play 343 formation and play with defenders who are comfortable on the ball. Tierney, Hanley and Cooper for me.

Let Mctominay and Gilmour develop a relationship in the middle of park. Ryan Jack in there also against top sides. 

Play Patterson or Fraser at right wing back. 

Play two creative players such as Turnbull, Christie, Mcginn, Forrest, Fraser either side of a striker who would be Che Adams for me. Only 1 against the top sides. 

Lyndon Dykes is your plan b off the bench if you need to go long. 

 

 

 

 

Think I pretty much agree with that. What happened to the upvote?

[Mox]

5 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

Another point on the Wales thing that they have 1 or 2 world class players in Bale and Ramsey. 

Ramsey got his first cap at 17 and was a regular, he captained the team when he was 20. Billy Gilmour is 20 and we only gave him his first cap 2 weeks ago. We really are timid shitebags.

We've done that for as long as I've been alive. If Messi was Scottish he'd have not got a cap until he was 20/21.

[ThistleWhistle]

I think the real introspection will happen following the next round of WC fixtures.  In terms of the Euros 55 teams enter and 15 of those are in the bottom 2 pots so there's probably over twice as many teams made it in comparison to those disappointed not to. 

Finishing second in the WC is a decent target and not one I'd chuck the toys out of the pram if we failed to achieve as long as we gave it a good go because the gap between the sides who squeaked in to the Euros and the rest seems massive - two defeats away in the next round of games though and could see there being pressure on Clarke.  This tournament has masked some bang average performances too and the WC qualifiers weren't  far from being an absolute disaster without stealing a draw vs Austria and could easily have lost in Israel plus Denmark smashing Austria could work out for us.  

Our focus though really should be the next Euro's in qualifying through the front door  and then hopefully being at least the 3rd ranked team in the group which would represent progress.

  

[Malcolm]

my first 11 in general would be

                               Gordon

                 Hendry.  Hanley. Tierney

                                Jack

patterson  Mctominay gilmour.      Robertson 

                               Mcginn

                               Adams

[Toepoke]

40 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Meanwhile Wales qualify for the knockout stages of yet another tournament. 

Wales are the polar opposite of us...they've reached the knockout rounds of every tournament they've qualified for.

 

[Third Lanark]

16 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

my first 11 in general would be

                               Gordon

                 Hendry.  Hanley. Tierney

                                Jack

patterson  Mctominay gilmour.      Robertson 

                               Mcginn

                               Adams

Not a bad shout, except I don't think Mctom is an automatic pick even in midfield any more. He doesn't bring a goal threat while McGregor could do if allowed to play his natural game of attacking. He nver misplaced a pass last night, and I've been criticising him many times before the last 2 games.

[weekevie04]

I like Clarke as a person and he has improved us, no doubt about that, but we can't win games under him. We've beaten the Faroes and Luxembourg in 90 minutes in the last 10 games.  He's far too cautious and conservative, picks his favourites and whilst we are harder to beat, are we any better?

It was amazing being back at a tournament so him and McLeish deserve credit for getting us there! It was magic to dream again and we knew what we had to do last night, but we have problems.

We need a goal scorer. As decent as Adams has been, is he the answer? I'm not sure at all. Dykes certainly isn't for all the hard work he does too.

We are a Northern Ireland, Hungary, Albania, North Macedonia, Iceland, Ireland - will be there or thereabouts for the Euros, but the WC wil be incredibly difficult to qualify for especially under Clarke. Our group has two teams in the last sixteen! Can we get 3/4 pts from Denmark? 4pts from Austria? I don't think so.

Clarke is too slow to make changes. And as a great as he's done (getting us to a tournament) and making us solid-ish - we didn't embarrass ourselves ; but even North Macedonia played more exciting football than us at this tournament. They gave it a real good go! We need someone more cavalier.  Clarke sounds like he's up for the job and he won't go and the SFA won't sack him, but have a horror feeling he'll be gone by the end of the year after a disaster qualifying for the WC.