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Where do we go from here?


ICT fan Shaun
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First things first in answer to the thread question, we STICK with Clarke and fans can suck it up (he isn't going anywhere thankfully).  I admit he got  it totally wrong last Monday by picking a team that was aimed at getting a point rather than going attacking then sitting back if we scored. Hopefully he has learnt lessons from this tournament though and we start seeing more attack minded teams/formations for the September qualifying campaign. 

I think it's safe to say that David Marshall and Craig Gordon won't be around for much longer so we will need to look at the GK position soon, most likely to be McCrorie because McLaughlin isn't getting matches at Rangers.  EE could still nab Angus Gunn, especially if he grows increasingly frustrated at being snubbed by England, but that's unlikely imho.

I think its time that we also look for another RB to put pressure on O'Donnell, preferably Aaron Hickey but maybe there are other contenders so feel free to let me know your opinions on that. 

Nathan Patterson to be second LB behind Andy Robertson.  

We also need to find a prolific goalscorer. I like Che Adams and Lyndon Dykes but they just don't score enough. Kevin Nisbet may deserve a lengthy run in the team instead of coming off the bench.  Leigh Griffiths won't play for us ever again imho and Shankland doesn't score enough, he had a poor season with Utd last season too hence his omission from the squad altogether. Is it worth capping Karlan Grant perhaps or are there players ready to step up from the under 21s (strikers)? 

 

Feel free to post your opinions but do not criticise me or personally attack me lol. 

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17 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Arguing about management or players is irrelevant until we produce technically gifted players.

We have a squad that is probably on a par with a lot of similar sized countries. Expecting us to produce a lot more better players is unrealistic. Personally I am happy with the standard of player we have, granted I would like a couple more in certain positions but we have a good core of epl players with 4 at top 6 clubs. Under good management we should be able to get 2nd in our wc group. 

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55 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Nathan Paterson is a right back

Ah OK, I apologise for that wee error ;).

Well that means that Patterson/O'Donnell will be vying for the RB slot, possibly with Aaron Hickey as 3rd choice. 

LB will be Robertson/Tierney/Taylor vying for the one slot. 

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Where do we go -Lets see what tomorrow brings, Steve Clarke may resign. 1 point from 9, minus 4  and 1 goal scored is nothing to be proud of. The Czech game was a blunder and tonight there were mistakes. He got us to euro 2020 and will always be a hero but he may hand in his notice.

Scotland with a fit Gilmour were excellent against England but without him we are pretty dire. I reckon two of our keepers will announce their international retirement and we also may lose Robbo in two years. 

I just looked at the World Cup fixtures yet again trying to look ahead, a play off spot is reachable, Turnbull over Christie, Patterson over O Donnell we may come out of this a better team but I'd give this tournament a C+. We went into the last game with something to play for but they way Croatia passed it around us we saw so little of the ball, it was always going to be so difficult.   

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, romanticscot said:

Where do we go -Lets see what tomorrow brings, Steve Clarke may resign. 1 point from 9, minus 4  and 1 goal scored is nothing to be proud of. The Czech game was a blunder and tonight there were mistakes. He got us to euro 2020 and will always be a hero but he may hand in his notice.

Scotland with a fit Gilmour were excellent against England but without him we are pretty dire. I reckon two of our keepers will announce their international retirement and we also may lose Robbo in two years. 

I just looked at the World Cup fixtures yet again trying to look ahead, a play off spot is reachable, Turnbull over Christie, Patterson over O Donnell we may come out of this a better team but I'd give this tournament a C+. We went into the last game with something to play for but they way Croatia passed it around us we saw so little of the ball, it was always going to be so difficult.   

 

 

 

 

What makes you think Robertson will retire in 2 years? He's only 27 and should have 5 years left in him I'd think. He clearly loves playing for Scotland. 

What's Christie done to be singled out? I thought he was underused in the tournament. His 45 minutes was better than any half that Dykes put in. Why can't we produce any strikers? It looked like every team in the Euros had at least one guy up top that would improve our team significantly.

I think our best chance of qualifying for the WC is managing to surprise Denmark. If we can somehow wrestle top spot from Denmark (1 Win, 1 Draw) and Austria (1 Draw).. Austria v Denmark (Draw) then we avoid a seeded playoff against a team likely to be ranked well above us.

You were right the first time around. We have a -4 goal difference. 

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I remain a big fan of Steve Clarke. He's brought us a long way considering we were losing 3-0 to Kazakhstan and making Russia look like Brazil earlier in the tournament.

That said, today's performance was shocking and how he didn't see it needed to be changed before the game was away from us I'll never know. I also can't believe how poor our corners and free kicks were throughout the tournament and even in the pre-tournament friendlies. Why set plays in dead ball attacking situations weren't developed is hard to fathom. We completely wasted about 95% of these chances without coming remotely close to looking like scoring.

I'd be really disappointed if he left though. I think he's got the makings of a good team, and if he learns from the clear errors that were made in this tournament he can be a very good manager for us.

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To start with I hope Steve Clarke sticks around as we have a relatively young squad, and who the hell would do a better job?

On the plus side we have Gilmore and Jack to come back into the team ( both were sorely missed last night). We also missed Hanley when he went off.

Nisbet and Paterson are coming through as well, I would be tempted to give Nisbet more game time over Dykes, although more than happy to have Dykes on the bench.

I agree Christie could have been used more.

IMO we lost going through in the first game v Czech as they were there for the taking and we created a good few chances against them. 

The most worrying thing about last night was being outplayed and over run in midfield but tactically nothing was changed in the second half to try and stop this.

We have a decent squad but must learn from this tournament and kick on.

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27 minutes ago, robbo cop said:

To start with I hope Steve Clarke sticks around as we have a relatively young squad, and who the hell would do a better job?

On the plus side we have Gilmore and Jack to come back into the team ( both were sorely missed last night). We also missed Hanley when he went off.

Nisbet and Paterson are coming through as well, I would be tempted to give Nisbet more game time over Dykes, although more than happy to have Dykes on the bench.

I agree Christie could have been used more.

IMO we lost going through in the first game v Czech as they were there for the taking and we created a good few chances against them. 

The most worrying thing about last night was being outplayed and over run in midfield but tactically nothing was changed in the second half to try and stop this.

We have a decent squad but must learn from this tournament and kick on.

Yip, I agree.  We move on and I have faith in Clarke and the squad to move on.  Patterson looked good when he came on.  I still like Adams and Dykes up front.  Maybe they should practice shooting in training more.  But I am more optmistic now than for 20 year of misery.  I think we can improve and kick on.  With Gilmour there he will be our talisman.  I also forgot about Ryan Jack.  We are in safe hands with Clarke though.

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A concerning issue for me is you could watch the analysis of almost any of the Israel games and they’d show the wing backs pushed back, their front three floating between the lines and Nacho dictating possession in acres of space. Following a month of training and various warning signs the analysis of last night is exactly the same but replaced with higher quality opposition.

 

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Not sure we are improving. The figures suggest not. We lost 3-1 to Croatia -at home - and people are forgetting that Marshall had a couple of really good saves.

 

We go on and we hope and we get let down again. It's the Scottish way.

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I'd just like something simple, that when you can obviously see things are going wrong, not to just try and ride it out and and hope for the best. You could see the third coming a mile off, but to then wait so long for the substitutions afterwards, whilst Croatia were using theirs, compounding the fact half the first 11 had fresh legs whilst some of ours were blowing out their arses

Edited by Bobby Russell's Lovechild
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15 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

A concerning issue for me is you could watch the analysis of almost any of the Israel games and they’d show the wing backs pushed back, their front three floating between the lines and Nacho dictating possession in acres of space. Following a month of training and various warning signs the analysis of last night is exactly the same but replaced with higher quality opposition.

 

Exactly this. Our three centre halves holding a line, with the opposition given all the time in the world to pick a pass or shoot. 

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I must be watching a different team because we are miles behind other teams and I see zero progress since Strachan. 

I'm sick of hearing this word 'progress', I've been hearing time and time again since i started following Scotland and it's just a way of papering over the cracks. I called it out under Levein and I'm calling it out again. 

Drawing 2 games and winning 2 penalty shootouts to qualify for a tournament via a new back door route isn't progress. 

Just because Croatia are technically better than us doesn't give them a right to beat us. Does nobody remember we beat a better Croatia home and away previously? 

Has anyone actually looked at a list of results in the past 5 years, it makes for hideous reading! 

If people want to accept that this is our level and it's to be expected in relation to how we qualified then that's their choice but it's typical of the happy clapping tartan army acceptance. 

When are we going to start demanding more? We have arguably our best squad in years yet we get put out without a whimper, our worst Euros performance to date. All when a team like Wales and others continue to progress through the group stages. 

Has Clarke done a good job? Bang average for me. I'm sure there's someone out there who could get more from these players. I'm worried at his inability to change things when it's glaringly obvious it's not working. Last Monday it was obvious after 15 minutes the game was crying out for Gilmour. Last night it was inexcusable it took so long to make changes. 

Thank god for Graeme Souness, the only pundit brave enough to say it as it is.

 

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7 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

We have a squad that is probably on a par with a lot of similar sized countries. Expecting us to produce a lot more better players is unrealistic. Personally I am happy with the standard of player we have, granted I would like a couple more in certain positions but we have a good core of epl players with 4 at top 6 clubs. Under good management we should be able to get 2nd in our wc group. 

Smaller countries than us produce better players.

We have a good level of talent now with a good future ahead of us. 

The main problem just now is poor management. 

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3 minutes ago, dezmondo said:

Thank god for Graeme Souness, the only pundit brave enough to say it as it is.

Souness does make a good point.  But that's his job.  I think we are over reacting here.  We def have a better squad now and a good manager.  Football is all about opinions and it has been good on here with peoples thoughts on team selection and formations.  At least we are back to that again disappointing as it was.  Glass half full guys.  We qualified and now to take the next step.  So stand on.

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8 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Smaller countries than us produce better players.

We have a good level of talent now with a good future ahead of us. 

The main problem just now is poor management. 

The main problem is not having someone to put the ball in the back of the fucking net. We don't have anyone capable of putting away half chances 

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We had 7 players in the starting line up last night who are first team regulars for English Premier league clubs. Yet we look technically inferior to almost every other team in the tournament. We hustle and bustle and yes sometimes create chances but our players always look rushed on the ball. Even a guy like Robertson who is regarded as one of the best left backs in the world. Every other team seems to have so much more time.

Another thing, punting the ball up to the big centre forward who flicks it on with the head is so 1970s.

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17 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Souness does make a good point.  But that's his job.  I think we are over reacting here.  We def have a better squad now and a good manager.  Football is all about opinions and it has been good on here with peoples thoughts on team selection and formations.  At least we are back to that again disappointing as it was.  Glass half full guys.  We qualified and now to take the next step.  So stand on.

Agreed.

However, those on here don't know jack about football management at any level of note let alone international level and you have zoomers on here telling our national team coach who has worked alongside Jose Mourinho how to do the job. Un- fucking - believable.

It is a classic trait of posters here. For ages they've been crying out to play two strikers up front and ditch the one plus one attacking midfielder. He did that and everyone was happy going into the match with that and then we lose and suddenly people are out wanting the old formation. FFS

Last night we weren't good enough against the World Cup runners-up. A side with bags of experience of major tournament football, a world class midfielder and world class striker - something we'd kill for. But WTF our supporters put our defeat down to our manager, our formation, various players instead of accepting, at present, our team is not in the same league as World Cup runners-up. 

As for where do we go from here? We integrate the likes of Billy Gilmour and Nathan Patterson into the side and looked to get the best out of the strikers we have available to us and hopefully a new young striker breaks through. We'll be stronger for this experience and give the players the taste of what it is like playing at a major tournament and now the belief is there that they can and have done it before it will make it much less difficult to achieve again.

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