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Where do we go from here?


ICT fan Shaun

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6 hours ago, tjm007 said:

We will stick with dinosaur Clarke until we finish 3rd in the WC qualifying group.

Then enter McInnes..

McInnes...chuckle. That's exactly why I simply wouldn't want Clarke sacked at any point in next 6 months. Clearly the players enjoy playing for him and camp is a better place than it's been for a long time and his system isn't too bad, just slow changing things when plan A isn't working.

Perhaps Calum Davidson if he continues on current trajectory can be a contender in 2-3 years time.

In terms of progress I'd say finishing 2nd in a qualifying group would represent it, when was the last time that happened, 2003?

Still very possible as I think Austria will drop a few points with their remaining games.

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6 hours ago, mentalist said:

We've never had a striker that's scored consistently since Kenny Miller. Dykes looks like he could be joining the likes of Rhodes, Fletcher and Griffiths as someone who looked like the answer until they weren't. Although the defence looks better, qualifying for tournaments by scoring as little as we do is a big ask to say the least. 

Is it that much of a problem in the qualifiers, 2 v Austria, 4 v faroes etc. Small sample size but 7 goals from first 3 games is o.k given Austria and Israel only scored 5 from first. Israel played Denmark but they've also played Moldova away.

Also stuck 3 past Israel and what was it 4 away to Albania so I think scoring v fellow mid rank teams isn't an issue even if it's not the striker scoring.

Just looking at our Welsh friends...scored the grand total of 11 goals in 10 games when they qualified for euro 2016. However they only conceded 4 goals and somehow kept clean sheets home and away to Belgium. For euro 2020 they only scored 10 goals in 8 games. However again conceded just 6. With Scotland 16 goals in 10 game but conceded 19.

Lack of anything close to 90s defender remains a huge issue.

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17 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

In short term.....play Adams as CF with likes of Fraser around him for rest of the qualifiers. I think Christie-Adams-Fraser will be a decent enough and mobile front 3 particularly for the away games.

Gilmour will start every game he's available for now which is good. If not then yes Clarke needs sacking. Turnbull needs to be given a proper chance aswell, surprised he didn't come on last night either once it became dead last 10 minutes.

Think Patterson coming on for last few minutes was just to introduce him to international football so I expect him to start a few of the qualifiers.

Not sure what to do at the back, have to hope a young CB comes through but ultimately Tierney and McTominay will still be needed in backline with the mediocre options.

Keeper also a big concern although Marshall will probably remain for another 18 months as number one.

What formation are you suggesting? 

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20 minutes ago, Haggis_trap said:

.  So how do we facilitate that at school?  If we get kids playing regularly then a better national team is just one of the benefits.

A lot more kids are likely to "play on the streets" now.

Showing our first game in the schools got the youngsters very excited. and a lot that I know have kept this going to the point of being upset there was no game on at five yesterday.

Success breeds success so let this "failure" be a start. By our recent standards it was a huge "success"

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4 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Gilmour will make Clarke look like a good manager.

I think we’d have done a whole lot better with a 4-5-1 with Tierney in midfield. Our players ran out of gas trying to cover too much ground. 

Agree with trying to "shoe horn" Tierney into the team into a position other than central defence.

Tierney might never have played midfield but from what I can see he can pass, run, tackle,intercept,shoot and even jump higher than most of the alternatives. 

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6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

A lot more kids are likely to "play on the streets" now.

Showing our first game in the schools got the youngsters very excited. and a lot that I know have kept this going to the point of being upset there was no game on at five yesterday.

Success breeds success so let this "failure" be a start. By our recent standards it was a huge "success"

My nephew is 8 and really has got involved in it. Never thought I would see the day my sister sat down to watch a game but he has encouraged her. Colleague at work has a boy the same age and he is similar, he thought we were going to win the tournament. Might be because my colleagues wife is German right enough, it will not be long till he defects 🙂

But it is positive that they are taking a real interest as it can only increase the number of kids playing the game and hopefully produce more options for the future. 

 

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Just now, TDYER63 said:

My nephew is 8 and really has got involved in it. Never thought I would see the day my sister sat down to watch a game but he has encouraged her. Colleague at work has a boy the same age and he is similar, he thought we were going to win the tournament. Might be because my colleagues wife is German right enough, it will not be long till he defects 🙂

But it is positive that they are taking a real interest as it can only increase the number of kids playing the game and hopefully produce more options for the future. 

 

My mates son is 6 and thinks Czechoslovakia are going to win it because they beat us.

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6 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I don't buy the lack of quality player argument either - we have 10 guys in the EPL at least plus 4-5 in Celtic and Rangers who'll be playing European football supplemented by Championship players.  

Against Switzerland, who're ranked 4th I think, Wales had a keeper who has barely played behind a back four consisting of two Championship players, a centre half with 10 games for a leaky Spurs and Ben Davies whose second choice at Spurs and would arguably be third choice for us.  

In midfield Joe Allen has been pish all season, another centre midfielder from Luton, a Championship winger and a Championship lump up top who is probably not as good as Adams.   However because they've got a quick bloke from Man U who struggles for game time plus Bale and Ramsey in decline it masks their overall deficiencies.  They're not better than us because they have those three but because they get a better tune out of what they have at their disposal which meant they got out of a tough group, with Turkey almost playing at home, relatively comfortably.    

Why are we never able to string more than 2 or 3 passes together then? Even teams like Kazakhstan and Israel have better technique and basic skills than almost all of our players. 

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11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Why are we never able to string more than 2 or 3 passes together then? Even teams like Kazakhstan and Israel have better technique and basic skills than almost all of our players. 

I thought that watching all the games you mentioned; for some reason ; again we are blinded by qualifying- essentially by practicing penalties…. A good half v serbia ( empty stadium ) then a solid performance v england has us back in ally mcleod land

after czech game ; lots of people - even the manager were convinced we were unlucky as only finishing and goalkeeper error were the difference

nobody mentioned the teachers strikes or ninetendos yet ? That usually does the rounds 

also the myth of the 60s:70s:80s

the 60s world beaters qualified for sfa ; and unless you get overly excited about the patronizing “unofficial world champions” then hopelessly underachieved

70s contrasting fortunes in world cups - but no euro qualifying 

80s ; new zealand only team our generation of european trophy winners could beat at tournaments 

( couldnt even hit the net v 10 hatchet men to advance )

again euros a fail

 

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Plenty of reasons for optimism. We have probably 5 players of real quality; Tierney, Robertson, McTominay, Gilmour and mcginn. Unfortunately two are left backs and the other 3 are midfielders, but it's still a decent base to build a team around as all of them should be around til at least the next euros. 

Biggest problem is clearly scoring goals. Over the last few years, most of our goals have come from attacking midfield players rather than out and out strikers (mcginn, fraser, Christie). Playing two up front is therefore not the way forward in my view. Adams with a fraser/Christie playing off him and mcginn supporting is the way to go. 

Not overly concerned about the keeper situation. Wales are doing fine with a keeper that's barely played any football for the last 3 years. 

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23 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Why are we never able to string more than 2 or 3 passes together then? Even teams like Kazakhstan and Israel have better technique and basic skills than almost all of our players. 

Fucked if I know :)

I'd say technically we have improved a lot in last few years with the youngsters coming through - some of the players in the last  20 years have had a touch like a rapey looking climbing wall whereas we seem now to have players with the basic ability to take a touch on the half turn.   Partly some of it is tactical as, boring myself raising it, but we allow teams like Israel to look good - Watched them that often its obvious press their defence, keep the right back from getting forward, stand on Nacho and they'll start losing the ball left right and centre like the few times we manage to pressure them consistently.  Wales managed to contain Italy in large parts with 10 men whereas we'd have still been chasing shadows with 12 last night how we were set up.  

Some of it will be cultural in comparison to most of europe in that if in doubt give it a hoof but grass roots hopefully seems to be moving on.  

Sounds daft to say but I started noticing the improvement technically from the women's game as they'd probably started from scratch on coaching properly but definitely reckon it is something we're improving on in the men's game too.    

  

 

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6 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Fucked if I know :)

I'd say technically we have improved a lot in last few years with the youngsters coming through - some of the players in the last  20 years have had a touch like a rapey looking climbing wall whereas we seem now to have players with the basic ability to take a touch on the half turn.   Partly some of it is tactical as, boring myself raising it, but we allow teams like Israel to look good - Watched them that often its obvious press their defence, keep the right back from getting forward, stand on Nacho and they'll start losing the ball left right and centre like the few times we manage to pressure them consistently.  Wales managed to contain Italy in large parts with 10 men whereas we'd have still been chasing shadows with 12 last night how we were set up.  

Some of it will be cultural in comparison to most of europe in that if in doubt give it a hoof but grass roots hopefully seems to be moving on.  

Sounds daft to say but I started noticing the improvement technically from the women's game as they'd probably started from scratch on coaching properly but definitely reckon it is something we're improving on in the men's game too.    

  

 

Yes, once we start to beat Israel comfortably then I will know we are making progress. What are they - 89th in the rankings or what? God knows what our ranking will be now - which means it will be hard to get a favourable draw in future.

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I cant believe Clarke's position is even being questioned. He is the best manager we have had for years and the unit needs to grow with some stability.

Some of our support seem to think a positive result equals good management and a negative the opposite. 

Ive said for months now that we keep losing weak goals. We need to switch on more as a team to things like 2 phases, cut backs to edge of box etc.

The one thing id like to take from this going forward is that we have a core group of around 30 players who are good enough at International standard and we should be looking to start the players who are in form or suit the particular game.

Guys like McGregor and Oddonnell proved fans wrong. However the shouldnt start every match, but at the same time shouldnt be dismissed. Some games we will need a McGreggor, others we will need Ryan Jack, or McLean. Ideally we have Gilmour and Mctom however there are games where the latter is better suited to play centre half.

Finding a new GK would be ideal. Longer term a striker of top half EPL would make a huge difference.

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2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

What formation are you suggesting? 

Ideally I'd just go with 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

Fits most of the key players in their best positons....apart from Tierney. So guess can only be played when he's injured as he's obviously too good to leave out and wouldn't want him being LCB in back 4 as he can't get forward then.

I think that formation would mean more fluid play in final third rather than the hit and miss system in place now.

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Just about every time we exit a tournament people are soul-searching about skills, youth development, society, etc.

Whatever happened to Marke Wotte and his legacy, was it impemenented, did it work, has it been continued, updated?

When will we see it bearing fruit, or is there already a new generation of better players coming through?

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4 minutes ago, exile said:

Just about every time we exit a tournament people are soul-searching about skills, youth development, society, etc.

Whatever happened to Marke Wotte and his legacy, was it impemenented, did it work, has it been continued, updated?

When will we see it bearing fruit, or is there already a new generation of better players coming through?

Gilmour is the first player to emerge through that system. Hopefully more will follow?

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