Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

58 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The dust will settle on this budget. It's down to the snp to make people aware that the budget is the result of having one hand tied behind their back on this fight. As AB says above, they have to rob peter to pay paul.

The only way out of this is independence. 

although difficult, it is achievable to run a sound devolved government, look at the salmond years, the AWPR, queensferry crossing, M8 were all major projects that we managed to deliver and send out the message of competence. 

[Caledonian Craig]

13 hours ago, Malcolm said:

the party had a chance but it chose humzah.  Thats like picking michael foote instead to tony blair.

Well at least Foote never led us into a war based on pure and utter lies. Sadly, comment sums you up to a tee. As long as a government lines your pocket you do not care what else they do as long as you prosper. True blue Tory through and through.

As to independence being dead then you are deluded like the rest of the unionist race. The genie escape the bottle 40 yeas ago and there is no way of getting it back in the bottle despite all of the unionist dirty tricks over the decades. There are way over a million people in Scotland (well over a third of the population) who loathe the union and that will never change especially with right-wing fascist Tory governments thrust upon us.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[StirlingEgg]

13 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well at least Foote never led us into a war based on pure and utter lies. Sadly, comment sums you up to a tee. As long as a government lines your pocket you do not care what else they do as long as you prosper. True blue Tory through and through.

As to independence being dead then you are deluded like the rest of the unionist race. The genie escape the bottle 40 yeas ago and there is no way of getting it back in the bottle despite all of the unionist dirty tricks over the decades. There are way over a million people in Scotland (well over a third of the population) who loathe the union and that will never change especially with right-wing fascist Tory governments thrust upon us.

It's interesting sometimes just the mention of the likes of Foot or Corbyn is used as some kind of attack or offhand jibe as evidence of a disastrous govt when they were never in that position. It's even a frequent feature in PMQS. Is there some kind of alternative reality where some know what damage was done?? We'll never know though if things would have been better or worse under their leadership.

Not sure what jollies the likes of Malcolm gets out of this online game. The Tories show themselves to be worse every day so no-one would currently openly back them as a choice in Scotland. On the other hand Malcolm can take his fake persona to his fake voting booth and make his fake choice for a fake right wing independence option and it won't matter because it's all made-up...

[vanderark14]

49 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

although difficult, it is achievable to run a sound devolved government, look at the salmond years, the AWPR, queensferry crossing, M8 were all major projects that we managed to deliver and send out the message of competence. 

Is there funding available for large projects like the above? Public services and the NHS should be a priority right now and both need money from somewhere. Another reason is to show the Scottish public that public services and the NHS are a priority - the opposite of the UK government. 

[Hertsscot]

Lots of negative comments from the usual subjects about the budget. Douglas Ross complaining on X about tax rises for struggling families, says a lot. Most people would say that if you're earning over £75k. you shouldn't be struggling. Just shows he lives in a different world to the rest of us.

[Dave78]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

although difficult, it is achievable to run a sound devolved government, look at the salmond years, the AWPR, queensferry crossing, M8 were all major projects that we managed to deliver and send out the message of competence. 

To be fair, it's easy (or easier) to run devolved government in a world of rising budgets and actually using the billions that the Labour administration were sending back to the treasury.

There was a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of popular policy that the early SNP were able to pick off. 

 

Re the overall economic picture, as others have said, nothing will change until Scotland stops becoming a satellite economy of SE England with zero monetary and only limited fiscal powers.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Is there funding available for large projects like the above? Public services and the NHS should be a priority right now and both need money from somewhere. Another reason is to show the Scottish public that public services and the NHS are a priority - the opposite of the UK government. 

waiting times under salmond were at record lows and in general the public were happy with the NHS,, It wasnt one or the other, there has been some seriously bad choices of where public money has gone in the last 5 years or so,, i am not saying that the uk parties would do any better but i am saying the current snp are no better than them and that is the worrying part

[PapofGlencoe]

It's a crappy situation where our economic levers are split between two governments doing two different things.  lack of direct accountability.

We get a block grant based on spending decisions for government departments for different priorities in a different country.  

We've then made an even bigger muddle of it by getting "more powers" which actually just mixes accountability even more.

We should have basque levels of full fiscal autonomy.  Playing about with it in between is sub optimal for a devolution settlement for an actual nation.

it could be worse, we could be Argentina.

[Alibi]

17 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Its over for the independence.  The missing piece of the jigsaw was the middle class centerist voters that were in the balance. Those that were in the yes ballot a week before the referendum and shat it after the vow and voted no.  Ironically i was a no until about two weeks before and then voted yes.
 

like it or not, they will all be hard no now as they can see the snp for the commies they are.

Sure, we all want to be ruled by a cabal of pink or blue fascist crooks in London, rather than by Scots.

People need to look at the reason why this budget is happening.  There is a concerted attempt to impoverish Scotland and its population,to portray it as an economic basket case, while at the same time they are putting in place the infrastructure to steal our resources and ship them south, and to make it as difficult as possible for Scotland to flourish.  TV & radio pumping out endless stories to demoralise Scots or try to instill a sense of Britishness.  All the while, the SNP leadership have become supine, scared to make a fuss, bowing and scraping to the fucking monarchy and to the British establishment.  I'm certain there has been infiltration and/or some people being compromised.  Maybe the Salmond case will flush out some of the political corruption.

I notice UKaye this morning was in full "SNP bad" mode, with her first caller being a Labour apparatchik with a prepared attack of unverified shite.  We are at war, a war of independence, and so many people don't even realise what is going on.

I have no idea where we go from here.  We need to find leaders who will actually lead, not the bland anodyne nonentities we have at the moment.

The UK political parties and their leaders have no compunction in accepting genocide in Gaza; let's not pretend they would exhibit higher moral standards when it comes to Scotland.  they will fight dirty; in fact they are right now.

[Alibi]

5 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

The dust will settle on this budget. It's down to the snp to make people aware that the budget is the result of having one hand tied behind their back on this fight. As AB says above, they have to rob peter to pay paul.

The only way out of this is independence. 

Spot on.  We need a decent leader who will prioritise indy.  Yousaf certainly isn't that.

[glasgow jock]

42 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Sure, we all want to be ruled by a cabal of pink or blue fascist crooks in London, rather than by Scots.

People need to look at the reason why this budget is happening.  There is a concerted attempt to impoverish Scotland and its population,to portray it as an economic basket case, while at the same time they are putting in place the infrastructure to steal our resources and ship them south, and to make it as difficult as possible for Scotland to flourish.  TV & radio pumping out endless stories to demoralise Scots or try to instill a sense of Britishness.  All the while, the SNP leadership have become supine, scared to make a fuss, bowing and scraping to the fucking monarchy and to the British establishment.  I'm certain there has been infiltration and/or some people being compromised.  Maybe the Salmond case will flush out some of the political corruption.

I notice UKaye this morning was in full "SNP bad" mode, with her first caller being a Labour apparatchik with a prepared attack of unverified shite.  We are at war, a war of independence, and so many people don't even realise what is going on.

I have no idea where we go from here.  We need to find leaders who will actually lead, not the bland anodyne nonentities we have at the moment.

The UK political parties and their leaders have no compunction in accepting genocide in Gaza; let's not pretend they would exhibit higher moral standards when it comes to Scotland.  they will fight dirty; in fact they are right now.

Agree 100% spot on. . . . . . . . wish we had leaders who could take the fight (not literally) to those bastards, however we need people who have the intellect, the power to persuade and to unite a majority behind our cause, sadly I can't think of anyone with those credentials.

We really are the masters of clinching defeat from the jaws of victory, who's like us indeed !!!!

[Malcolm]

59 minutes ago, glasgow jock said:

Agree 100% spot on. . . . . . . . wish we had leaders who could take the fight (not literally) to those bastards, however we need people who have the intellect, the power to persuade and to unite a majority behind our cause, sadly I can't think of anyone with those credentials.

We really are the masters of clinching defeat from the jaws of victory, who's like us indeed !!!!

the calibre of politician in our parliament is poor compared to the quality of politicians from Scotland in the past. I’m thinking of the likes of salmond, John smith, dewar, etc.

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

waiting times under salmond were at record lows and in general the public were happy with the NHS

We should bring back his health secretary...

 

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

waiting times under salmond were at record lows and in general the public were happy with the NHS,, It wasnt one or the other, there has been some seriously bad choices of where public money has gone in the last 5 years or so,, i am not saying that the uk parties would do any better but i am saying the current snp are no better than them and that is the worrying part

What has happened since Salmond left though ?

Tory Austerity and yearly cuts to the Scottish Budget

The annual bill for free prescriptions, bus passes, eye tests et al 

Eventually something has to give

[Redz]

Is there a 'reason' why it's never ever spelled out in bold capital letters why these type of decisions are taken?

Surely to fuck we know exactly what we would 'contribute' to our own treasury in an IndySco v what we get back right now - Get it plastered everyfukingwhere if we're been riddled senseless

Either there's no such disparity in the numbers, or the SNP are 'at it,' and it's very deliberate

 

[PapofGlencoe]

4 hours ago, Alibi said:

Sure, we all want to be ruled by a cabal of pink or blue fascist crooks in London, rather than by Scots.

People need to look at the reason why this budget is happening.  There is a concerted attempt to impoverish Scotland and its population,to portray it as an economic basket case, while at the same time they are putting in place the infrastructure to steal our resources and ship them south, and to make it as difficult as possible for Scotland to flourish.  TV & radio pumping out endless stories to demoralise Scots or try to instill a sense of Britishness.  All the while, the SNP leadership have become supine, scared to make a fuss, bowing and scraping to the fucking monarchy and to the British establishment.  I'm certain there has been infiltration and/or some people being compromised.  Maybe the Salmond case will flush out some of the political corruption.

I notice UKaye this morning was in full "SNP bad" mode, with her first caller being a Labour apparatchik with a prepared attack of unverified shite.  We are at war, a war of independence, and so many people don't even realise what is going on.

I have no idea where we go from here.  We need to find leaders who will actually lead, not the bland anodyne nonentities we have at the moment.

The UK political parties and their leaders have no compunction in accepting genocide in Gaza; let's not pretend they would exhibit higher moral standards when it comes to Scotland.  they will fight dirty; in fact they are right now.

Like the sound of this post and agree.

The fact independence as a concept is still supported by a huge part of the population has to give hope.  In addition to the youth being largely supportive.  If it comes, it will happen as a second wind.  The wind was taken out the sails in January this year.  There was a real concern down south about Sturgeon's plan.  

I am more sure than unsure some MPs are compromised but that's par for the course and anyone who doesn't think so is naive.  It's not the be all and end all, though.  just a contributing factor in a hugely complex cause.

I happen to know an MP who was unable to say whether UK intelligence services were friend or foe.  I actually the like the person and won't divulge who it was but I don't think they truly believe in independence anymore.  They never talk about independence and actively attempted to take any momentum out of a defacto vote.  Got too comfy down there and enjoying their foreign trips ironically with UK services.  Unconsciously or consciously they've been turned.  I believe some hard working activists, both the radical and the pragmatists, are being strung along by a few.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by PapofGlencoe

[Ally Bongo]

BREAKING: The UK Government will seek expenses from the Scottish Government for the Section 35 legal battle over the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, Alister Jack has confirmed.

[Alibi]

5 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I happen to know an MP who was unable to say whether UK intelligence services were friend or foe.  I actually the like the person and won't divulge who it was but I don't think they truly believe in independence anymore.  They never talk about independence and actively attempted to take any momentum out of a defacto vote.  Got too comfy down there and enjoying their foreign trips ironically with UK services.  Unconsciously or consciously they've been turned.  I believe some hard working activists, both the radical and the pragmatists, are being strung along by a few.

 

That sounds awfy like Stuart Mcdonald, or maybe that other guy with whom he was photographed in army clothing, smiling happily.

[hampden_loon2878]

15 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Like the sound of this post and agree.

The fact independence as a concept is still supported by a huge part of the population has to give hope.  In addition to the youth being largely supportive.  If it comes, it will happen as a second wind.  The wind was taken out the sails in January this year.  There was a real concern down south about Sturgeon's plan.  

I am more sure than unsure some MPs are compromised but that's par for the course and anyone who doesn't think so is naive.  It's not the be all and end all, though.  just a contributing factor in a hugely complex cause.

I happen to know an MP who was unable to say whether UK intelligence services were friend or foe.  I actually the like the person and won't divulge who it was but I don't think they truly believe in independence anymore.  They never talk about independence and actively attempted to take any momentum out of a defacto vote.  Got too comfy down there and enjoying their foreign trips ironically with UK services.  Unconsciously or consciously they've been turned.  I believe some hard working activists, both the radical and the pragmatists, are being strung along by a few.

 

everyone needs to ask themselves this question. If the SNP are in existence for independence and all policies they peruse should be to get us closer to the goal of independence directly or indirectly, then why would the sturgeonists chase after the GRA when it cost them half their members(at least) hundreds of thousand of voters, msp's,MP'S and thousands of pounds? this isn't just incompetence and when you add in the whole scenario regarding salmond, the answer is staring right at you. i know i bang on about the salmond saga a lot but i just want to add one more thing and that i believe the stitch up goes very deep, not even to a uk level but even crossing into American politics, wild yes!  but i have my reasons to believe this

[Malcolm]

15 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

BREAKING: The UK Government will seek expenses from the Scottish Government for the Section 35 legal battle over the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, Alister Jack has confirmed.

I think that’s common when you take someone to court and lose.  You cover the expenses incurred by the other party.

[Malcolm]

jeremy Hunt considering tax cuts apparently on the back of low inflation figures. Source is the Times. If that’s not a Get It Right Up You to Humzah I don’t know what is.

Scots will enviously sit round the table from colleagues in the same teams with the same salary but taking home £6k plus less.

this is not what I signed up for when I signed up for devolution back in the day.  If I remember correctly there were two questions, one on the parliament and one on its tax varying powers which was limited to plus or minus 3%. When did this change?

when do we get to revote on devolution?

 

 

 

[phart]

57 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

jeremy Hunt considering tax cuts apparently on the back of low inflation figures. Source is the Times. If that’s not a Get It Right Up You to Humzah I don’t know what is.

Scots will enviously sit round the table from colleagues in the same teams with the same salary but taking home £6k plus less.

this is not what I signed up for when I signed up for devolution back in the day.  If I remember correctly there were two questions, one on the parliament and one on its tax varying powers which was limited to plus or minus 3%. When did this change?

when do we get to revote on devolution?

 

 

 

At 125k a year the difference is £3106.30 : source HMRC calculators

at 75k it is 2106.30

at 49k it is just over 1300

I think one of the reasons why you have such outlandish opinions Malcolm is because all your logic is predicated on your own wild imagings instead of reality, or as they say in computer science "shite in =shite out"

Different taxation rates will of course be a political topic. However it has to be framed rationally and using figures that are easily obtainable otherwise one can only conclude either utter incompetence or not a good faith argument.

[Malcolm]

36 minutes ago, phart said:

At 125k a year the difference is £3106.30 : source HMRC calculators

at 75k it is 2106.30

at 49k it is just over 1300

I think one of the reasons why you have such outlandish opinions Malcolm is because all your logic is predicated on your own wild imagings instead of reality, or as they say in computer science "shite in =shite out"

Different taxation rates will of course be a political topic. However it has to be framed rationally and using figures that are easily obtainable otherwise one can only conclude either utter incompetence or not a good faith argument.

what about at £150k a year? I believe that the difference is £6k - that is the reported figure.  That is before any further tax cuts from uk gov.

they are hardly outlandish opinions.  Fairly common amongst people I interact with or on twitter or LinkedIn (where the snp have been particularly bashed)

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, phart said:

At 125k a year the difference is £3106.30 : source HMRC calculators

at 75k it is 2106.30

at 49k it is just over 1300

I think one of the reasons why you have such outlandish opinions Malcolm is because all your logic is predicated on your own wild imagings instead of reality, or as they say in computer science "shite in =shite out"

Different taxation rates will of course be a political topic. However it has to be framed rationally and using figures that are easily obtainable otherwise one can only conclude either utter incompetence or not a good faith argument.

Or, wind up merchant.

[phart]

43 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

what about at £150k a year? I believe that the difference is £6k - that is the reported figure.  That is before any further tax cuts from uk gov.

they are hardly outlandish opinions.  Fairly common amongst people I interact with or on twitter or LinkedIn (where the snp have been particularly bashed)

3606.30

There is no need to believe anything, it's a simple calculation only the innumerate cannot do it.

If you're innuemerate then you should at least have the self-awareness to be silent on economic matters.

I find it hard to believe this is anything else than weaponised incompetence for the purpose of trolling. However it is a reflection of our society where it is not out of the realms of possibility that someone who cannot perform the most basic maths calculations spends considerable time opining on detailed economic subjects earnestly thinking that they have any worth.