Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

43 minutes ago, Alibi said:

I think if they try that, they are asking for a significant degree of civil unrest.  Bear in mind that we had to have a specific vote to get our parliament; removing it without a specific vote to test our agreement would pretty much be an act of war.

if the snp run into the ground, it takes devolution with it and the outcry would be nothing like it would have been 2-3 years ago. We really have to be careful with how shit the SNP get

[Squirrelhumper]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I have said it before many times. We are done up in chains Harry Houdini could not get out of. We have had one full referendum in 300+ years and that was only because Cameron allowed it so even Salmond had no way of getting one without Westminster's say so. Surprised that penny has not dropped with you yet. The SNP being a car crash or not is not going to make an iota of difference.

Same polls that see the SNP losing seats by up to 20?

[hampden_loon2878]

35 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Same polls that see the SNP losing seats by up to 20?

and the rest

[Diamond Scot]

20 hours ago, Alibi said:

The big problem is mainly with the concept of self-ID.  Sturgeon insisted that "transwomen are women" when that is just not true, right down to chromosome level as Robert Winston pointed out.  If you base a policy on a lie, people are going to object.  And you end up with the illogical mobius strip where everyone is Schroedinger's human.  Any politician worth their salt should have had nothing to do with self ID, but so many were desperate to be seen as wokey, not realising they were lauding the emperor's new clothes. and now the SNP are holding the baby despite Labour also backing it, and the LibDems too.  Stupidity, malice or naivety?  You decide.

Personally im no big fan of GRR or self ID but what you say isnt neccesarily correct.

You said transwomen arent women. Transwomen can be women as defined by the law of the land. What they cant be is biological women which is where chromosomes etc come in.

I think most people could accept that the current process of a lengthy wait, multiple doctors visits etc to change identity is perhaps to long and labourous however I think where they erred is by going too far too soon. Half the time and the number of medical hoops to jump through and probably nobody pays any attention.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Same polls that see the SNP losing seats by up to 20?

We were talking about independence polls. They have not been affected and neither they should. Independence over-rides everything. If people are going to say they will now vote Noover GRA then they are either on the wind-up or do not truly want independence. 

[StirlingEgg]

9 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

And those high earners with the extra dosh in their pocket would be thr first to complain about public services not being adequate 

They always seem the most vocal about NHS waiting times or not getting a dental app. Stop voting for a party that is ideologically opposed to it then. 

[Ally Bongo]

Found Malcolm's twitter account ...

This is what we are dealing with

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Found Malcolm's twitter account ...

This is what we are dealing with

That's great let them all piss off down south to their yoon nirvana with forever Tory or Tory-lite (Labour) governments. The question is why have they stuck it out for so long?

[Toepoke]

21 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Although more optimistically several countries that were part of the British Empire would have felt like that they were in that situation but have since escaped the clutches of Perfidious Albion. 

None of them were 6 hours drive from Westminster though.

 

[Hertsscot]

58 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

None of them were 6 hours drive from Westminster though.

Yes there are circumstances that are unique to Scotland i.e. the Act of Union but wanted to be more positive. If enough of us want it, it will happen. What did Mandela say, it always seems impossible until it happens?

[Ally Bongo]

This is for Malcolm who loves Tory Governments

 

[hampden_loon2878]

everyone now coming out and saying that the sturgionites who ran the snp was not health for the party, a pitty they didnt come out and voice it earlier,, you never know, aaid may come out and admit he got it wrong

[hampden_loon2878]

Speaking to an associate yesterday who is the most active activist I know within the snp, he’s saying the response is absolutely dire on the door steps of late and even spoke about us having less seats than the tories at a GE,, I haven’t seen him so disillusioned before  

[Alibi]

5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Speaking to an associate yesterday who is the most active activist I know within the snp, he’s saying the response is absolutely dire on the door steps of late and even spoke about us having less seats than the tories at a GE,, I haven’t seen him so disillusioned before  

It's a pity the SNP don't have a proper leader who could come out fighting and reverse the trend.  I honestly can't understand anyone who believes in independence deciding to vote for a Labour party that opposes indy, supports brexit, proposes policies that are pretty much Tory and a couple of dozen other points that should make them unelectable in Scotland.  With talk of a spring UK general election, a decent leader would be campaigning already, but Yousaf just remains mute and in denial.  Oh, and it's pretty clear now why operation branchform is being spun out.

Is anyone on here who wants indy proposing to vote Labour either in a UK election or a Scottish election?  If so, why?  What's your logic?

I will never, ever vote for any unionist party.  And I'm becoming more and more convinced that the current shitshow is being orchestrated.

[hampden_loon2878]

15 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It's a pity the SNP don't have a proper leader who could come out fighting and reverse the trend.  I honestly can't understand anyone who believes in independence deciding to vote for a Labour party that opposes indy, supports brexit, proposes policies that are pretty much Tory and a couple of dozen other points that should make them unelectable in Scotland.  With talk of a spring UK general election, a decent leader would be campaigning already, but Yousaf just remains mute and in denial.  Oh, and it's pretty clear now why operation branchform is being spun out.

Is anyone on here who wants indy proposing to vote Labour either in a UK election or a Scottish election?  If so, why?  What's your logic?

I will never, ever vote for any unionist party.  And I'm becoming more and more convinced that the current shitshow is being orchestrated.

I personally believe that snp voters will stay at home and that very little will vote labour, I see tories voting labour in the central belt. I too will never in my life ever vote for a unionist party, unfortunately the longer the snp fuck this up the more likely the snp lose folks vote for good

[Caledonian Craig]

46 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It's a pity the SNP don't have a proper leader who could come out fighting and reverse the trend.  I honestly can't understand anyone who believes in independence deciding to vote for a Labour party that opposes indy, supports brexit, proposes policies that are pretty much Tory and a couple of dozen other points that should make them unelectable in Scotland.  With talk of a spring UK general election, a decent leader would be campaigning already, but Yousaf just remains mute and in denial.  Oh, and it's pretty clear now why operation branchform is being spun out.

Is anyone on here who wants indy proposing to vote Labour either in a UK election or a Scottish election?  If so, why?  What's your logic?

I will never, ever vote for any unionist party.  And I'm becoming more and more convinced that the current shitshow is being orchestrated.

Lets be honest here the SNP (in good times and in bad) have always got negative press from the unionist-biased newspapers and TV channels. Now is a bad time it is safe to say so the gullible are even more likely to have their heads turned and end up voting Labour or maybe Tory. 

It does make me laugh when people are saying get Labour and Starmer in and things will improve. Nonsense. Starmer and his Labour party are just Tory-lite - nothing else. He's already stated there will be no IndyRef2 on his watch so any pro-independence voter has no reason to vote for this charlatan but sadly they will.

The next election is just about how much damage limitation can be achieved for ANY pro-independence parties. However, the sheer f***ing hypocrisy of the unionist parties will see them point to it as clear evidence support for independence is falling yet when SNP did very well in the past they rolled out the old BS that not everyone who votes SNP supports independence. In all honesty polls on independence has seen a status quo so for even the shite year for SNP it has not filtered through into indy polls.

The Alba Party are in a tricky position themselves. They need to appeal to more voters butif they do they'll surely only take votes from the SNP and perhaps cause them to lose a seat or two more to a unionist party. Tricky. Where can Alba aid the independence movement? I do agree with Salmond's idea of having all pro-independence parties compete under one banner. Makes a lot of sense and I am frustrated the SNP have shunned this idea. Power in Holyrood means Jack until independence is secured and we need to be rattling unionist cages much harder now.

Edited January 4 by Caledonian Craig

[Malcolm]

57 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It's a pity the SNP don't have a proper leader who could come out fighting and reverse the trend.  I honestly can't understand anyone who believes in independence deciding to vote for a Labour party that opposes indy, supports brexit, proposes policies that are pretty much Tory and a couple of dozen other points that should make them unelectable in Scotland.  With talk of a spring UK general election, a decent leader would be campaigning already, but Yousaf just remains mute and in denial.  Oh, and it's pretty clear now why operation branchform is being spun out.

Is anyone on here who wants indy proposing to vote Labour either in a UK election or a Scottish election?  If so, why?  What's your logic?

I will never, ever vote for any unionist party.  And I'm becoming more and more convinced that the current shitshow is being orchestrated.

who would you suggest I vote for?

voted snp at last general election, would like independence, but can’t possibly vote snp for the myriad of reasons I have listed before.  

would like a right or centre right government, even centre would be acceptable, certainly not far left like the snp.

 

 

[Grim Jim]

17 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

who would you suggest I vote for?

voted snp at last general election, would like independence, but can’t possibly vote snp for the myriad of reasons I have listed before.  

would like a right or centre right government, even centre would be acceptable, certainly not far left like the snp.

 

 

So after independence you believe that the people of Scotland won't deliver the type of government you want.

Far left?   Malcolm Rifkind would look like a socialist compared to the Tories now.

[Grim Jim]

43 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

...

The next election is just about how much damage limitation can be achieved for ANY pro-independence parties. However, the sheer f***ing hypocrisy of the unionist parties will see them point to it as clear evidence support for independence is falling yet when SNP did very well in the past they rolled out the old BS that not everyone who votes SNP supports independence. In all honesty polls on independence has seen a status quo so for even the shite year for SNP it has not filtered through into indy polls.

...

Probably the main reason I will still vote SNP.   I have been wondering why though if they don't campaign for independence, and I've supported them solidly since the 70s.

 

[Malcolm]

6 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

So after independence you believe that the people of Scotland won't deliver the type of government you want.

Far left?   Malcolm Rifkind would look like a socialist compared to the Tories now.

Independence isn’t happening under the snp so why would I vote for the looney left in the meantime?  If the snp move to the right or centre right I would vote for them.  Who do I vote for in the meantime?

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Probably the main reason I will still vote SNP.   I have been wondering why though if they don't campaign for independence, and I've supported them solidly since the 70s.

 

Yes I will still vote SNP. If Alba had a candidate with strong support in my constituency I'd certainly consider voting for them but they don't. In short - anyone but a unionist party for me.

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

who would you suggest I vote for?

voted snp at last general election, would like independence, but can’t possibly vote snp for the myriad of reasons I have listed before.  

would like a right or centre right government, even centre would be acceptable, certainly not far left like the snp.

 

 

if the SNP move to centre right or far right to suit your views, you vote for them, they win independence....................what will you do when new parties form and Scotland votes in a left leaning government?

 

[vanderark14]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Speaking to an associate yesterday who is the most active activist I know within the snp, he’s saying the response is absolutely dire on the door steps of late and even spoke about us having less seats than the tories at a GE,, I haven’t seen him so disillusioned before  

Which area is he canvassing? 

[Hertsscot]

Rishi seems to be shy of an early election. Probably a good thing from an SNP perspective.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Which area is he canvassing? 

mostly Gordon and in and around Aberdeenshire