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Steve Clark ......


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I thought rather that resurrecting the old SC thread, I would start a new one.  Reading about David Moyes prompted me to consider a What If...

So, we are on a 7-match losing streak, one would expect us to put that to bed prior to the Germany, but is there any circumstance you see Clarke walking away after the EURO's?  What has been his greatest accomplishments and talking points to date? 

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No, I think he'll stay to get us to next world cup 

The nations league will be a hard shift and the knives will be out for him by a few 

But he has earned the right to take us on another WC campaign .

He's been to 2/3 competitions, got us promotion in nation's league and only outside circumstances stopped us getting to last world cup 

 

He's the best manager we've had since Craig Brown, and I hope we have him for 3-4 more years at least..

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The prospect of Clarke being dismissed after back-to-back tournaments, would show we have collectively lost our minds.  That said, if we play three and lose three and only score once then Clarke I may feel might consider he has done all he can.   

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9 hours ago, stocky said:

No, I think he'll stay to get us to next world cup 

The nations league will be a hard shift and the knives will be out for him by a few 

But he has earned the right to take us on another WC campaign .

He's been to 2/3 competitions, got us promotion in nation's league and only outside circumstances stopped us getting to last world cup 

 

He's the best manager we've had since Craig Brown, and I hope we have him for 3-4 more years at least..

The knives will be out for hime during the finland and Gibraltar matches. There's always someone waiting to complain

 

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I think he'll do what no other scotland manager has done. Qualify out our group

 

Some days I am confident he will take us out of thee group for the first time......other day I see us choking and getting 1 point or less. The joys of being a Scotland fan

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The other thread was a real eye opener. Never thought a Scotland manager could qualify with 2 games to spare and still get the heavy criticism that he got in that thread. 

Quite unbelievable. 

We are a very limited squad and any kind of qualification should be celebrated massively.

As for west ham, fuck me what a bunch entitled twats. A European trophy plus top half epl finishes is pretty much the pinnacle for them and they are unhappy. 

Would like to see moyes manage Scotland but it might be few years yet. His stock is still pretty high and other epl clubs will probably take a chance on him.

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26 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Some days I am confident he will take us out of thee group for the first time......other day I see us choking and getting 1 point or less. The joys of being a Scotland fan

Aye, it'll always be the same!

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I've said before we could inevitably be looking at a tough year and reality check this year, while I maintain about a 10-20% hope that it could be one to remember. But in the event we do have a tough year it's more a symptom of our relative success forcing us to play tougher games. It will be a baptism of fire.

There would however be countless eejits complaining who forget where we came from just a few short years ago. Coming up with some outlandish pish about how another manager could do such and such more with the squad etc.

In terms of future managers. Moyes is the obvious standout in terms of experience and stature. If he doesn't have a Premier League job around the time the job is going spare, you would imagine he would slot in.

Given his consistency shown with Aberdeen and the job he has done at Killie, I'd be very surprised if Derek McInnes wasn't in the running at some point in his career

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3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Some days I am confident he will take us out of thee group for the first time......other day I see us choking and getting 1 point or less. The joys of being a Scotland fan

Exactly this.  I also feel that we are the only nation that thinks this way but surely that isn't the case 🤔

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If we have a terrible Euros - and for us the bar for that is pretty low! - but if, for instance, we lose every game heavily, then I think he might call if a day. Other than that though, I expect him to still be there for the Nations League games.

We should be careful what we wish for though. Apart from Davie Moyes there are no Scots managers available of real calibre and the SFA won't (or can't) splash the cash to get a really good foreign coach to lead the team.

Clarke's achievements stack up favourably amongst any Scotland manager: back-to-back qualification for the Euros, a World Cup playoff, promotion to League A of the Nations League. The only thing lacking is World Cup qualification.

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2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

If we have a terrible Euros - and for us the bar for that is pretty low! - but if, for instance, we lose every game heavily, then I think he might call if a day. Other than that though, I expect him to still be there for the Nations League games.

We should be careful what we wish for though. Apart from Davie Moyes there are no Scots managers available of real calibre and the SFA won't (or can't) splash the cash to get a really good foreign coach to lead the team.

Clarke's achievements stack up favourably amongst any Scotland manager: back-to-back qualification for the Euros, a World Cup playoff, promotion to League A of the Nations League. The only thing lacking is World Cup qualification.

IF Clark left I could only see Mcinnes as the viable candidate if Moyes doesnt fancy it. 

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On 5/7/2024 at 4:13 PM, vanderark14 said:

IF Clark left I could only see Mcinnes as the viable candidate if Moyes doesnt fancy it. 

Moyes has said in the past that he would be interested in the job. Failing to get him if he’s let say at another EPL club by then & doing reasonably well, then McInnes would be the choice although part of me thinks he will want to have another proper crack at managing in the English Championship again in the future after his woeful Bristol City experience.

Although having said all that, I don’t think Clark will call it a day after the Euros even if we have a dismal showing like the last one. Think he deep down really wants to take us to a first World Cup in this millennium, similar to how he ended our major tournament qualification hoodoo.

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On 5/7/2024 at 4:11 PM, scotlad said:

If we have a terrible Euros - and for us the bar for that is pretty low! - but if, for instance, we lose every game heavily, then I think he might call if a day. Other than that though, I expect him to still be there for the Nations League games.

We should be careful what we wish for though. Apart from Davie Moyes there are no Scots managers available of real calibre and the SFA won't (or can't) splash the cash to get a really good foreign coach to lead the team.

Clarke's achievements stack up favourably amongst any Scotland manager: back-to-back qualification for the Euros, a World Cup playoff, promotion to League A of the Nations League. The only thing lacking is World Cup qualification.

A quick google reminded me that Clarke is under contract until 2026. I don't see anything non-personal related that would stop him from trying to take this current squad of players, who have grown with him at international level, as far as they can go. I think 2026 is about the same time frame by which many of them will have their best years behind them.

I don't think a difficult Euros and Nations League would put him off too much, which we all know is a very real prospect.

Strachan's exit was much the same, although less successful than Clarke he had built his core squad who he stuck with throughout and in the end graciously left.

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On 5/7/2024 at 5:11 PM, scotlad said:

If we have a terrible Euros - and for us the bar for that is pretty low! - but if, for instance, we lose every game heavily, then I think he might call if a day. Other than that though, I expect him to still be there for the Nations League 

I agree. I think the minimum has to be for us to win a game for him to stay really. That's based on Hickey being the only first-choice player out. If, for example, Tierney is out too then I think three losses and him staying is possible provided we don't collapse in those games.

The team thar qualified for the last euros were way off it in normal qualification so the bar is now higher.

.

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It will be up to Steve Clarke. 

No way on Earth will the SFA sack their most successful manager in a generation on the back of qualifying for the Euros. That is a laughable and ludicrous suggestion. People wanting him out should think back to the years of toil and humiliation under the likes of Vogts, Burley, Levein etc.

On the point made by mccaughey (which I agree with much of it) I must disagree about us having a limited squad. I think if we have everyone fit and in form we have a very good squad with options in most areas apart from in goal and up front. When we have a full squad to pick from we have shown we can mix it with the best but there is a fall-off when multiple key players in key areas (ie wing-backs) we struggle. With Patterson definitely put and Hickey looking increasingly likely to miss out it severely weakens us and so my expectations for the summer have dipped. Sooner we are there though and kicking off the tournament than sitting at home watching on TV has we have become accustomed to before Clarke took over.

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3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It will be up to Steve Clarke. 

No way on Earth will the SFA sack their most successful manager in a generation on the back of qualifying for the Euros. That is a laughable and ludicrous suggestion. People wanting him out should think back to the years of toil and humiliation under the likes of Vogts, Burley, Levein etc.

On the point made by mccaughey (which I agree with much of it) I must disagree about us having a limited squad. I think if we have everyone fit and in form we have a very good squad with options in most areas apart from in goal and up front. When we have a full squad to pick from we have shown we can mix it with the best but there is a fall-off when multiple key players in key areas (ie wing-backs) we struggle. With Patterson definitely put and Hickey looking increasingly likely to miss out it severely weakens us and so my expectations for the summer have dipped. Sooner we are there though and kicking off the tournament than sitting at home watching on TV has we have become accustomed to before Clarke took over.

Surely us having poor options upfront and in net is the very definition of having a limited squad.

Our centre back options are limited as well. 

We have real quality in midfield and the full back positions and Clarke manages to get the very best out of guys like dykes and hendry etc.

Clarke doesn't get the credit he deserves. Not only that but he's actually been loyal and not just used the job as a stepping stone. 

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Surely us having poor options upfront and in net is the very definition of having a limited squad.

Our centre back options are limited as well. 

We have real quality in midfield and the full back positions and Clarke manages to get the very best out of guys like dykes and hendry etc.

Clarke doesn't get the credit he deserves. Not only that but he's actually been loyal and not just used the job as a stepping stone. 

No the squad has proven they can compete and beat top sides as we showed against Spain, Denmark and Ukraine amongst others and that was with around same set of players we have right now.

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23 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No the squad has proven they can compete and beat top sides as we showed against Spain, Denmark and Ukraine amongst others and that was with around same set of players we have right now.

Regardless of wether we compete or not we still have a limited squad.

Limited squads like ours can get good results if everyone pulls together and plays well as a team which is what we have done.

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1 hour ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

The beforementioned teams are not 'top sides', not even Spain who were or are on a downward trajectory at the time

Spain are always a top side. Denmark were a top side when we played them and have been a top side for most of the last 10 years.

Ukraine are not a top side and never have been.

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48 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Spain have always had talented players but they've been beaten by the likes of us, Japan and Morocco recently in important games, not sure you could call them a top side at the moment but then it depends on how you interpret it.

Denmark are a really good team for a nation similar to the size of Scotland but again you wouldn't put them in the mould of a France, England, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil etc, would say they are a tier below.

Then the tier below them would probably be the likes of us and Ukraine IMO

The Spain side is still a top side regardless of who they have lost to in recent times. They have top players and they just topped their euro qualifying group. Just because they are not the side they were ten plus years ago doesn't mean they are not elite. 

They hit such unbelievable highs that it was always going to be slight  downwards trajectory but they are consistently a top ten nation in the world.

Denmark comes down more to opinion and current form. I wouldn't class them as a genuine heavyweight in terms of France or England but they could easily be considered a top nation in the last ten years. When we beat them I would say they were a top nation.

Ukraine are probably a third tier nation who occasionally make it into the second tier. They are certainly not a top tier nation and haven't ever been one.

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5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Regardless of wether we compete or not we still have a limited squad.

Limited squads like ours can get good results if everyone pulls together and plays well as a team which is what we have done.

Only if its a limited squad in numbers and not limited in terms of quality. Without the latter we'd not have been able to get the results we have.

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7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Only if its a limited squad in numbers and not limited in terms of quality. Without the latter we'd not have been able to get the results we have.

Not sure what you mean by that statement. We definitely lack quality in certain positions.

We manage to get results through good management and having good players in other positions. Other countries with limited squads manage it as well. 

Its pretty much common knowledge that our squad is limited. 

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15 minutes ago, GilmourFan said:

The words "heavyweights" and "England" have no business being in the same sentence.

England are, and have always been, the World Champions at being self publicists.

Look at Bellingham, apparently he's Charlton, Law and best all rolled into one.

He's good. He's very good. Real Madrid don't buy mediocre players. Plus the numbers he's clocked up is impressive. The English media are already calling him the new Zidane. He has a long way to go to get to that level.

Apparently Mainoo is Gascoigne and Robson rolled into one.

He's fine. He fades in and out of matches.

Then we have Cole Palmer. A player who has scored 1 less goals than McTominay (from open play) this season, and he's already he's been labelled world class.

England are the biggest underachievers in the history of football, perhaps even the whole of sport.

They've won 1 trophy in their entire existence. That's not exactly a trademark of a "heavyweight"

Look at their current team:

Their keeper situation is dire. Their number 1 has been in a relegation battle all season. Their center of defense has Harry Maguire (who will miss the Euro's). They have no playmakers in midfield, because of this Harry Kane is forced to forever come deep and pull the strings and Trent is playing in midfield.

They also have no striker to follow Harry Kane when he retires. It should've been Mason Greenwood, but for obvious reasons, he won't be.

England are not football heavyweights.

Against Scotland they had 2 shots on target in 60 minutes of football. 1 of those was a deflected shot and the other was Robertson laying ot on a plate for Bellingham.

We more than held our own against England. We could've had a penalty and McGinn should've scored. Gunn had 2 saves to make in the full 90 minutes.

We were confident and comfortable in possession against them. If that was a competitive match they wouldn't have won.

Roll of honour:

18 trophies: Argentina - 15 Copa America - 3 World Cup

17 trophies: Uruguay - 15 Copa America - 2 World Cup

14 trophies: Brazil - 9 Copa America - 5 World Cup

7 trophies: Germany - 3 European Championships - 4 World Cup

6 trophies: Italy - 2 European Championships - 4 World Cup

4 trophies: France - 2 European Championships - 2 World Cup

4 trophies: Spain - 3 European Championship - 1 World Cup

2 trophies: Chile - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

2 trophies: Paraguay - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

2 trophies: Peru - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Netherlands - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Denmark - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Greece - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Colombia - 1 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Bolivia - 1 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Portugal - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Russia - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Czech Republic - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Slovakia - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: England - 0 European Championships - 1 World Cup

(If someone wants to say that I'm being "controversial". Fine. I find it rather arrogant when people label opinions as being "controversial" simply because they don't agree with them.)

Can't fault your post mate, you'll get no argument from me. You've done the necessary leg work, that I'd be far too lazy to do, and I love it!  Great stuff 👍

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2 hours ago, GilmourFan said:

The words "heavyweights" and "England" have no business being in the same sentence.

England are, and have always been, the World Champions at being self publicists.

Look at Bellingham, apparently he's Charlton, Law and best all rolled into one.

He's good. He's very good. Real Madrid don't buy mediocre players. Plus the numbers he's clocked up is impressive. The English media are already calling him the new Zidane. He has a long way to go to get to that level.

Apparently Mainoo is Gascoigne and Robson rolled into one.

He's fine. He fades in and out of matches.

Then we have Cole Palmer. A player who has scored 1 less goals than McTominay (from open play) this season, and he's already he's been labelled world class.

England are the biggest underachievers in the history of football, perhaps even the whole of sport.

They've won 1 trophy in their entire existence. That's not exactly a trademark of a "heavyweight"

Look at their current team:

Their keeper situation is dire. Their number 1 has been in a relegation battle all season. Their center of defense has Harry Maguire (who will miss the Euro's). They have no playmakers in midfield, because of this Harry Kane is forced to forever come deep and pull the strings and Trent is playing in midfield.

They also have no striker to follow Harry Kane when he retires. It should've been Mason Greenwood, but for obvious reasons, he won't be.

England are not football heavyweights.

Against Scotland they had 2 shots on target in 60 minutes of football. 1 of those was a deflected shot and the other was Robertson laying ot on a plate for Bellingham.

We more than held our own against England. We could've had a penalty and McGinn should've scored. Gunn had 2 saves to make in the full 90 minutes.

We were confident and comfortable in possession against them. If that was a competitive match they wouldn't have won.

Roll of honour:

18 trophies: Argentina - 15 Copa America - 3 World Cup

17 trophies: Uruguay - 15 Copa America - 2 World Cup

14 trophies: Brazil - 9 Copa America - 5 World Cup

7 trophies: Germany - 3 European Championships - 4 World Cup

6 trophies: Italy - 2 European Championships - 4 World Cup

4 trophies: France - 2 European Championships - 2 World Cup

4 trophies: Spain - 3 European Championship - 1 World Cup

2 trophies: Chile - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

2 trophies: Paraguay - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

2 trophies: Peru - 2 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Netherlands - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Denmark - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Greece - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Colombia - 1 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Bolivia - 1 Copa America - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Portugal - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Russia - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Czech Republic - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: Slovakia - 1 European Championships - 0 World Cup

1 trophy: England - 0 European Championships - 1 World Cup

(If someone wants to say that I'm being "controversial". Fine. I find it rather arrogant when people label opinions as being "controversial" simply because they don't agree with them.)

What the hell lol. Thats some rant.

England are heavyweights. Maybe one of the weaker heavyweights but they are defo a top tier nation. 

You sound bitter.

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