Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Rishi seems to be shy of an early election. Probably a good thing from an SNP perspective.

I would rather take a spoon of medicine sooner rather than later 

[Malcolm]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

if the SNP move to centre right or far right to suit your views, you vote for them, they win independence....................what will you do when new parties form and Scotland votes in a left leaning government?

 

I would vote for a right wing party.

[scotlad]

23 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

everyone now coming out and saying that the sturgionites who ran the snp was not health for the party, a pitty they didnt come out and voice it earlier,, you never know, aaid may come out and admit he got it wrong

Aye, exactly, including the deputy leader at WM. According to her, some MPs have grown too fond of their London lifestyles. Who knew?? 😲

Of course, it's easy to come out and say these things when you are leaving in a few months, but the party and indeed the independence movement might be in a better place if Mhairi Black had "told it like it is" earlier, publicly or otherwise.

I think it's probably safe to assume she isn't too thrilled by the party trying to get Brian Souter back onside either:

https://archive.is/8mJsA

I wonder if she'll be making any public pronouncements about this though. Because, of course, the guy behind it, according to the article, is the same person she championed as SNP leader! I know the SNP are a bit strapped at the moment but imagine the shrieking if it was Kate Forbes - who Black publicly stuck the knife into during the leadership campaign - who was making moves to get back into Souter's good books!

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

mostly Gordon and in and around Aberdeenshire 

Not surprised by the reaction at the doors in those areas. People are very concerned about the oil industry.

[hampden_loon2878]

17 hours ago, scotlad said:

Aye, exactly, including the deputy leader at WM. According to her, some MPs have grown too fond of their London lifestyles. Who knew?? 😲

Of course, it's easy to come out and say these things when you are leaving in a few months, but the party and indeed the independence movement might be in a better place if Mhairi Black had "told it like it is" earlier, publicly or otherwise.

I think it's probably safe to assume she isn't too thrilled by the party trying to get Brian Souter back onside either:

https://archive.is/8mJsA

I wonder if she'll be making any public pronouncements about this though. Because, of course, the guy behind it, according to the article, is the same person she championed as SNP leader! I know the SNP are a bit strapped at the moment but imagine the shrieking if it was Kate Forbes - who Black publicly stuck the knife into during the leadership campaign - who was making moves to get back into Souter's good books!

For them to go cap and hand to Souter is huge giving all that’s went on behind the scenes with his sister and a former senior member of the party.  This shit so has been orchestrated, I don’t care what anyone says. I will say I don’t think humza has been part of it other than being a incompetent leader 

[Alibi]

24 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

For them to go cap and hand to Souter is huge giving all that’s went on behind the scenes with his sister and a former senior member of the party.  This shit so has been orchestrated, I don’t care what anyone says. I will say I don’t think humza has been part of it other than being a incompetent leader 

No idea what that bit about his sister is about, but are you suggesting that approaching Souter is a move deliberately designed to harm the SNP and/or the wider indy movement?  Humza's just a bystander - he reacts to events, he doesn't actually make things happen.  He's only where he is because he's an appalling choice who was shoehorned in.  Anyone who actually voted for him as leader needs to have a word with themselves.

I'd say Souter is toxic due to his section 28 stance.  Electoral suicide to be seen to have anything to do with him.  Maybe that's the idea.

[hampden_loon2878]

3 hours ago, Alibi said:

No idea what that bit about his sister is about, but are you suggesting that approaching Souter is a move deliberately designed to harm the SNP and/or the wider indy movement?  Humza's just a bystander - he reacts to events, he doesn't actually make things happen.  He's only where he is because he's an appalling choice who was shoehorned in.  Anyone who actually voted for him as leader needs to have a word with themselves.

I'd say Souter is toxic due to his section 28 stance.  Electoral suicide to be seen to have anything to do with him.  Maybe that's the idea.

No I think Souter being approached is either other are completely broke and no other option or the party have seen sense and away to change direction, maybe both. For me it’s a positive to have Souter on board. I had to look up section 28 to see what it was. I don’t think the general public will care one little bit, and if it scares away some of those woke maniacs from the party, brilliant… I sense some realisation of the utter fuck ups that sturgeon was allowed to impose. 

[Hertsscot]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I had to look up section 28 to see what it was. I don’t think the general public will care one little bit, and if it scares away some of those woke maniacs from the party, brilliant.

Opposition to Section 28 was not really 'woke maniac' territory. It prevented the 'promotion of same sex relationships' by local government (basically reacting to Daily Mail scare stories about the so-called Loony Left. Most of the stories were, unsurprisingly, just lies the Mail published!). There were people who supported this legislation as they believed same sex relationships were morally wrong. However that was 40 years ago and there have been significant shifts in society's opinions, e.g Church of Scotland, Methodist Church, Scottish Episcopal Church all accept same sex marriage. 

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Opposition to Section 28 was not really 'woke maniac' territory. It prevented the 'promotion of same sex relationships' by local government (basically reacting to Daily Mail scare stories about the so-called Loony Left. Most of the stories were, unsurprisingly, just lies the Mail published!). There were people who supported this legislation as they believed same sex relationships were morally wrong. However that was 40 years ago and there have been significant shifts in society's opinions, e.g Church of Scotland, Methodist Church, Scottish Episcopal Church all accept same sex marriage. 

Aye one of the first acts of the Scottish parliament after devolution was to repeal Section 28.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

5 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Opposition to Section 28 was not really 'woke maniac' territory. It prevented the 'promotion of same sex relationships' by local government (basically reacting to Daily Mail scare stories about the so-called Loony Left. Most of the stories were, unsurprisingly, just lies the Mail published!). There were people who supported this legislation as they believed same sex relationships were morally wrong. However that was 40 years ago and there have been significant shifts in society's opinions, e.g Church of Scotland, Methodist Church, Scottish Episcopal Church all accept same sex marriage. 

Aye but who cares now, things move on, even Souter 

[hampden_loon2878]

The SNP are away to shift back to centre politics IMHO and that’s our home

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

The SNP are away to shift back to centre politics IMHO and that’s our home

That needs to happen to have any hope of achieving independence.  As they are governing they can’t be a single issue party, but I’d independence is the goal, it should be front and centre policy with every othe4 policy benign.

[Hertsscot]

7 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Aye but who cares now, things move on, even Souter 

There are plenty of people who do care. Being seen, rightly or wrongly, as homophobic could be weaponised against him and the SNP. And would see younger voters in particular put off voting SNP. If though he has moved on then there needn't be a problem. 

[Grim Jim]

@silverbear posted on the tunes thread.

Dunno silverbear's politics, but liked this screenshot from the video.

 

[Ally Bongo]

It is now official that the SNP's message is that if you don't vote SNP at the next election Independence is off the table.

I have said ages ago that this was the SNP mindset and is tantamount to blackmail

In other words they are going to stick with an unpopular leader and tell the other Independence parties to fuck off hoping that this threat will win over SNP voter apathy and keep them on the gravy train

A dangerous, and at this point in time, stupid tactic

 

[vanderark14]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

It is now official that the SNP's message is that if you don't vote SNP at the next election Independence is off the table.

I have said ages ago that this was the SNP mindset and is tantamount to blackmail

In other words they are going to stick with an unpopular leader and tell the other Independence parties to fuck off hoping that this threat will win over SNP voter apathy and keep them on the gravy train

A dangerous, and at this point in time, stupid tactic

 

Who else can people vote for if they want independence?

[Broath Boy]

58 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Who else can people vote for if they want independence?

Exactly.

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Who else can people vote for if they want independence?

 

1 hour ago, Broath Boy said:

Exactly.

Which is exactly the conundrum

We want to vote for an Independence party that is sucking the life out of Independence

[vanderark14]

23 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Which is exactly the conundrum

We want to vote for an Independence party that is sucking the life out of Independence

I'm not sure how you think it's blackmail. 

If you genuinely want independence then the option is snp or Alba. The snp may have regressed but they're still in a stronger position to deliver independence than any other party 

[vanderark14]

Been more than 3 weeks since @aaidposted. 

Everything ok @aaid

[Caledonian Craig]

Voting SNP at the next general election is not going to get us IndyRef2. Neither is voting any other independence supporting party. We already know the British Government has an answer for every scenario that is lapped up by the unionist press.

Scenario 1: Scots wanting independence but peed off with SNP and take their votes to Alba. The unionist parties point to SNP vote share and declare support for independence has fallen and it they are fully justified (they feel) saying no to IndyRef2.

Scenario 2: Scots wanting independence get behind the SNP en-masse and their vote share holds up or even improves. The unionist parties shrug and claim not every SNP voter supports independence and so the current situation lingers on. However, at least a modicum of pressure is kept up and more people in Scotland may see Westminster for the undemocratic body it is for flatly saying no to IndyRef2.

Scenario 3: It isn't going to happen but do feel it is the best way forward and is Salmond's idea to have all independence-supporting parties standing under one banner - Scotland's Independence Party or some other title. It all but makes it an election with independence right at the forefront. Westminster can hardly claim that voters for this party do not all support independence.

[Ally Bongo]

36 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I'm not sure how you think it's blackmail. 

 

We arent going to do anything different about Independence but vote for us or Independence is off the table

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Ally Bongo said:

We arent going to do anything different about Independence but vote for us or Independence is off the table

To be honest independence is off the table even if everyone rushes over to vote for Alba. Pro-independence parties could swoop over 50% of the vote share and Westminster under a Tory or Labour government would still say no.

[Ally Bongo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67912381

SNP's Cherry demands apology from fellow MP Black

The SNP's Joanna Cherry has demanded an apology from her fellow MP Mhairi Black after she said some SNP members were too "comfortable" at Westminster.

She also called for Ms Black, the SNP's deputy leader at Westminster, to "live up to her responsibilities or give the post over to someone who will".

Ms Black, who has been contacted for comment, made the remarks on Times Radio last week.

[hampden_loon2878]

7 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Been more than 3 weeks since @aaidposted. 

Everything ok @aaid

His jobs done, managed to some how convince everyone that everything was ok(bit like sturgeon) while the house was burning down around them.. nice work, job complete by the London snp 🙈