Season 21/22

[kumnio]

Just now, vanderark14 said:

I remember butcher against aberdeen in both matches. He was sent off in one and should've been sent off in the other 

Every derby is the same, he has some kind of mysterious shield around him, refs seem to go out of their way to avoid booking him, gets away with murder most games.

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, kumnio said:

Every derby is the same, he has some kind of mysterious shield around him, refs seem to go out of their way to avoid booking him, gets away with murder most games.

Booked ten times in total last season, 5 this season with one straight red.

You'd think his manager would have a word.

[Big Ramy 1314]

6 minutes ago, Flipping eck said:

Old firm fans really are tiresome. You sit on here when your team are playing then think people care what you have to say about football?

Whit? I couldnae give a fiddlers fuck whit people think.. It's a messageboard.. It's enjoyable banter. Folk think I am thick as fuck, that's fine by me...🤣🤣🍺🍺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[JECK]

Just watching the highlights of Celtic Dundee Utd. It’s mental to think how much these Celtic players are getting paid to beat this opposition, Utd look like English league 1 if that. Easiest jobs and easiest cash in the country for the Celtic players. The majority of them should be playing at a well higher level.

[slasher]

1 hour ago, JECK said:

Just watching the highlights of Celtic Dundee Utd. It’s mental to think how much these Celtic players are getting paid to beat this opposition, Utd look like English league 1 if that. Easiest jobs and easiest cash in the country for the Celtic players. The majority of them should be playing at a well higher level.

Another Scottish football hater 👏

This will be the same United who beat Rangers earlier this season. 🤔

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, slasher said:

Another Scottish football hater 👏

This will be the same United who beat Rangers earlier this season. 🤔

He's not wrong. Scottish football is slowly returning to what it was pre celtics 9 in a row. 

[slasher]

Absolute filth from Tam Rogic today, a wonderful player on his game. 

[slasher]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

He's not wrong. Scottish football is slowly returning to what it was pre celtics 9 in a row. 

So all our good players should go to England? 

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, slasher said:

So all our good players should go to 

 

You on the cans tonight?

[slasher]

Just now, vanderark14 said:

 

You on the cans tonight?

No. 

Malbec 🤣

[vanderark14]

Just now, slasher said:

No. 

Malbec 🤣

Haha 🤣

Enjoy

[slasher]

It's been a bit one sided on here the last few days as far as I can see. I'm just providing some feniany balance 😉

[Archiesdad]

35 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

He's not wrong. Scottish football is slowly returning to what it was pre celtics 9 in a row. 

Hopefully a return to the years before 9 in a row.

The first one ,in the 60's

 

When Hearts, Kilmarnock, Dundee, Aberdeen, Hibs all won the league.

 

But i doubt it, 

 

[Tartan_Don]

12 hours ago, Archiesdad said:

Hopefully a return to the years before 9 in a row.

The first one ,in the 60's

 

When Hearts, Kilmarnock, Dundee, Aberdeen, Hibs all won the league.

 

But i doubt it, 

 

Not a chance of those days ever returning, the ugly sisters cash cow that is Scottish football is all the world (according to Sky etc) is interested in. 

[Malcolm]

40 minutes ago, Tartan_Don said:

Not a chance of those days ever returning, the ugly sisters cash cow that is Scottish football is all the world (according to Sky etc) is interested in. 

this. Competition in Scottish football ended with sky.   Ironically, rangers and Celtic are now canon fodder in Europe for the big teams. All that’s happened is the uncertainty has been taken out of football. Rangers and Celtic win the league, then inevitably get pumped out of the Champions league early, to have a good wee run in one of the diddy European leagues. The rest fight it out for euro spots to be pumped out before September is over.

[aaid]

Always cracks me up when people try and hark back to some halcyon time when the Old Firm weren't the dominant force in Scottish football.

This doesn't bear scrutiny when you look at the raw facts.

To date, the Championship - which is the ultimate judge of success - has been competed for on 124 occasions, between them, Rangers and Celtic have won it 106 times.  The next best are Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts with four apiece, after that  Dundee and Dumbarton with 2.  Only 11 clubs have won the league and one of those is defunct.

In fact in the rare seasons where neither of the old firm won the league, there's only four seasons where one of them wasn't runner up and three of those were before the First World War and Rangers were third.  

The only season where neither of the Old Firm were in the top three was 1964/65, when it was Kilmarnock, Hearts and Dunfermline in the top three.  

One season in 124.

Lets go back to the good old days before the Old Firm dominated the League, well then you need to go back to before the league was founded in 1890.

[Squirrelhumper]

13 hours ago, Archiesdad said:

Hopefully a return to the years before 9 in a row.

The first one ,in the 60's

 

When Hearts, Kilmarnock, Dundee, Aberdeen, Hibs all won the league.

 

But i doubt it, 

 

No chance, David Murray ended that and thankfully then ended the old Rangers. 

[Squirrelhumper]

20 minutes ago, aaid said:

The only season where neither of the Old Firm were in the top three was 1964/65, when it was Kilmarnock, Hearts and Dunfermline in the top three.  
 

Rangers were 5th and Celtic 8th that season. 

I don't think this was a debate about old firm being in the top 3? Killie were runners up 4 times int eh space of 5 years, then won it. That's night and day to what we have now. 

Even in the 80s, there were seasons where Rangers especially couldn't lay a glove on the New Firm. That  obviously changed when Murray started spunking silly money (at the time) and even a blind man can see that. 

1959-60 - Hearts, Killie, Rangers (Celtic 9th)

1960-61 - Rangers, Killie, Third Lanark (Celtic 4th)

1961-62 - Dundee, Rangers, Celtic

1962/63 - Rangers, Killie, Thistle (Celtic 4th)

1963-64 - Rangers, Killie, Celtic 

1964/65 - killie, Hearts, Dunfermline

1965/66 - Celtic, Rangers, Killie.

it all went tits up in the late 80s/90s when Murray started spending money he ultimately never had and history seems to be repeating itself. 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Squirrelhumper

[aaid]

16 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Rangers were 5th and Celtic 8th that season. 

I don't think this was a debate about old firm being in the top 3? Killie were runners up 4 times int eh space of 5 years, then won it. That's night and day to what we have now. 

Even in the 80s, there were seasons where Rangers especially couldn't lay a glove on the New Firm. That  obviously changed when Murray started spunking silly money (at the time) and even a blind man can see that. 

1959-60 - Hearts, Killie, Rangers (Celtic 9th)

1960-61 - Rangers, Killie, Third Lanark (Celtic 4th)

1961-62 - Dundee, Rangers, Celtic

1962/63 - Rangers, Killie, Thistle (Celtic 4th)

1963-64 - Rangers, Killie, Celtic 

1964/65 - killie, Hearts, Dunfermline

1965/66 - Celtic, Rangers, Killie.

it all went tits up in the late 80s/90s when Murray started spending money he ultimately never had and history seems to be repeating itself. 

 

The period you mention is probably one of the most "competitive" periods in league history but its an exception, not the rule although there are some parallels between the late 70s and early 80s.  In the period you mention, Celtic were in a relatively poor state but Rangers were very strong and in fact that team of the early 60s is one of the greatest ever Rangers sides.   In the late 70s until 1986, Rangers were a bombscare.    So it's only  these two periods where one or other side is "out the game" so to speak and other teams are competitive.  The point though is that these are and have been very much the exception.

The current run of 36 seasons with no-one from outwith the old firm winning the league isn't really that unique either.

From 1904 until the second world war, there was only Motherwell winning the league in 1932 that broke that run, which would most likely have been extended had football not been suspended due to the outbreak of the war.

[Orraloon]

I tend to think that the "New Frim" thing of the 80s is a wee bit overstated. IMO, it was Aberdeen that dominated that period and they don't always get the credit they deserve when lumped in as part of the "New Firm"

OK, United won three trophies which was great achievement for them. But for me it was United's European exploits that outshone their domestic record. In that period even a struggling Rangers won more trophies than United.

United had a great record against Celtic in that period but they tended to struggle against Rangers. If Jim McLean had managed to work out how to beat Rangers on a regular basis, I'm sure United would have won more trophies.

[thplinth]

Rangers turnover is (pre covid) something like 60 million pounds. Kilmarnock's is about a tenth of that, 10%, or 6 million pounds. That is an enormous gulf. So even if RFC just broke even every year they still have a huge financial advantage, huge.

But they don't break even, far from it, RFC lost 24m pounds last set of accounts and lost 12 millions pounds the year before and similar the year before that.... and so on. They just threw tens of millions at it to stop 10IAR. And Celtic (IMHO) pretty much rolled over to allow it to happen.

It is not enough having a huge advantage playing fair financially speaking  they have to rack up enormous losses making sure they snuff out all non OF chances and ultimately interest in Scottish Football. And it was David Murray who ruined Scottish Football, and an honourable mention to Graeme Souness as well. They just bludgeoned their way to the top using debt and things like EBTs. Same as they just did again with the new club, the accounts say it every year... they need new funds to stop going bankrupt. 

It would clearly be much better for Scottish football if it were more competitive yet both Celtic and Rangers would rather just maintain their stranglehold no matter how dull the product becomes. Because longer term they have no intention of staying in Scottish football if they can so who cares if they destroy it in the meantime.

This is why the yanks work so hard at keeping their sports competitive, it is better for business overall, rather than a dull product where a couple of big teams dominate every year. You'd think the SFA and the OF would know that... and of course they do. Barry Hearn was bang on the money talking about the people running Scottish Football.

[wee-toon-red]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Always cracks me up when people try and hark back to some halcyon time when the Old Firm weren't the dominant force in Scottish football.

This doesn't bear scrutiny when you look at the raw facts.

To date, the Championship - which is the ultimate judge of success - has been competed for on 124 occasions, between them, Rangers and Celtic have won it 106 times.  The next best are Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts with four apiece, after that  Dundee and Dumbarton with 2.  Only 11 clubs have won the league and one of those is defunct.

In fact in the rare seasons where neither of the old firm won the league, there's only four seasons where one of them wasn't runner up and three of those were before the First World War and Rangers were third.  

The only season where neither of the Old Firm were in the top three was 1964/65, when it was Kilmarnock, Hearts and Dunfermline in the top three.  

One season in 124.

Lets go back to the good old days before the Old Firm dominated the League, well then you need to go back to before the league was founded in 1890.

I'm not necessarily saying this is what you're suggesting, but all the arguing back and forth about "how it used to be" doesn't change the fact that we should strive to make it better in future otherwise the ball's burst.

29 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I tend to think that the "New Frim" thing of the 80s is a wee bit overstated. IMO, it was Aberdeen that dominated that period and they don't always get the credit they deserve when lumped in as part of the "New Firm"

 

Dundee Utd who?!

1 x league title and 2 x league cups v 3 titles, 4 Scottish cups, 1 league cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the Super Cup. No contest.

Edited December 6, 2021 by wee-toon-red

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I tend to think that the "New Frim" thing of the 80s is a wee bit overstated. IMO, it was Aberdeen that dominated that period and they don't always get the credit they deserve when lumped in as part of the "New Firm"

OK, United won three trophies which was great achievement for them. But for me it was United's European exploits that outshone their domestic record. In that period even a struggling Rangers won more trophies than United.

United had a great record against Celtic in that period but they tended to struggle against Rangers. If Jim McLean had managed to work out how to beat Rangers on a regular basis, I'm sure United would have won more trophies.

In that period it was Aberdeen and Celtic who were the two dominant sides.  Dundee Utd had a very good side but as you point out weren’t the most consistent.  They were one of the best teams I can recall for playing on the counter which might explain their good record in Europe.   Hearts in 85/86 were a great team but it shows you how no-one remembers the losers.

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said:

I'm not necessarily saying this is what you're suggesting, but all the arguing back and forth about "how it used to be" doesn't change the fact that we should strive to make it better in future otherwise the ball's burst.

 

Not how it used to be, how it always has been.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Rangers turnover is (pre covid) something like 60 million pounds. Kilmarnock's is about a tenth of that, 10%, or 6 million pounds. That is an enormous gulf. So even if RFC just broke even every year they still have a huge financial advantage, huge.

But they don't break even, far from it, RFC lost 24m pounds last set of accounts and lost 12 millions pounds the year before and similar the year before that.... and so on. They just threw tens of millions at it to stop 10IAR. And Celtic (IMHO) pretty much rolled over to allow it to happen.

It is not enough having a huge advantage playing fair financially speaking  they have to rack up enormous losses making sure they snuff out all non OF chances and ultimately interest in Scottish Football. And it was David Murray who ruined Scottish Football, and an honourable mention to Graeme Souness as well. They just bludgeoned their way to the top using debt and things like EBTs. Same as they just did again with the new club, the accounts say it every year... they need new funds to stop going bankrupt. 

It would clearly be much better for Scottish football if it were more competitive yet both Celtic and Rangers would rather just maintain their stranglehold no matter how dull the product becomes. Because longer term they have no intention of staying in Scottish football if they can so who cares if they destroy it in the meantime.

This is why the yanks work so hard at keeping their sports competitive, it is better for business overall, rather than a dull product where a couple of big teams dominate every year. You'd think the SFA and the OF would know that... and of course they do. Barry Hearn was bang on the money talking about the people running Scottish Football.

Would you expect Rangers or Celtic to actively take steps to make their own clubs less succesful?

There is 1 club who are to blame for the current and future voting structure in Scottish football. Aberdeen. Everything could and should have changed when Rangers werent in the top flight.