Scottish players in action 20/21

[scotlad]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:51 PM, ProudScot said:

In even his 10 minute cameos in our previous internationals he showed he was a superior player to McBurnie. 

unsure if you didn’t watch these games or haven’t seen Sheffield United for the past year or so? 

He’s been very poor or worse in all these games. 

Oh no, I watched those games, and save for his two yard screamer against the mighty San Marino I can't think of a single thing that Lawrence Shankland has done to show that he was far superior (your words) to Oli McBurnie.

Both of them are having poor seasons, but the difference is McBurnie is having a poor season in a far more demanding league than Shankland. Neither of them scored at the weekend - again - but McBurnie at least came close against a team that recently won the Champions League. Shankland couldn't score against Kilmarnock, who are second bottom of the SPFL.

[ProudScot]

5 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Oh no, I watched those games, and save for his two yard screamer against the mighty San Marino I can't think of a single thing that Lawrence Shankland has done to show that he was far superior (your words) to Oli McBurnie.

Both of them are having poor seasons, but the difference is McBurnie is having a poor season in a far more demanding league than Shankland. Neither of them scored at the weekend - again - but McBurnie at least came close against a team that recently won the Champions League. Shankland couldn't score against Kilmarnock, who are second bottom of the SPFL.

McBurnie is horse dung and everyone knows it

[Diamond Scot]

I dont think anybody is arguing that McBurnie is setting the footballing world on fire or that he has yet to doing anything special in a Scotland shirt.

What annoys me is when people then try and claim X player is clearly better despite no evidence to back it up or when they view games through biased eyes. 

Shankland has only ever scored goals at Scottish Championship level. Nisbet has had a decent (nothing more) spell in the first half of Scottish Prem season and a club bid around 2 million for him. Griffiths has done zero for Celtic or Scotland for a number of years now. Patterson is scoring goals in the English Championship at a lower rate than McBurnie did when he played there. Dykes isnt even scoring in that league.

All of the above says to me that we have zero players "better" than McBurnie. What we have in Dykes is a player more suited to how we play and therefore its only correct we play him.

Personally id have McBurnie 3rd choice behind Dykes and Griffiths but Griffiths only gets in front due to abit of striker arrogance if we needed a goal from nowhere.

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont think anybody is arguing that McBurnie is setting the footballing world on fire or that he has yet to doing anything special in a Scotland shirt.

What annoys me is when people then try and claim X player is clearly better despite no evidence to back it up or when they view games through biased eyes. 

Shankland has only ever scored goals at Scottish Championship level. Nisbet has had a decent (nothing more) spell in the first half of Scottish Prem season and a club bid around 2 million for him. Griffiths has done zero for Celtic or Scotland for a number of years now. Patterson is scoring goals in the English Championship at a lower rate than McBurnie did when he played there. Dykes isnt even scoring in that league.

All of the above says to me that we have zero players "better" than McBurnie. What we have in Dykes is a player more suited to how we play and therefore its only correct we play him.

Personally id have McBurnie 3rd choice behind Dykes and Griffiths but Griffiths only gets in front due to abit of striker arrogance if we needed a goal from nowhere.

It’s not just about scoring goals, which incidentally all of the other strikers do better than McBurnie.

It’s about having a touch, holding the ball up and running channels etc - in addition to being dangerous & hopefully scoring a few.

McBurnie, based on international appearances, is one of the poorest players we have seen in a Scotland shirt who have got more than 1 or 2 caps.

His club form is also laughable & his own clubs fans think he is a terrible player and a huge waste of money. 

He was terrible in our last internationals & since then he’s been poor at best for his club.

Just because he happens to be in the EPL does not mean he should be in our team or squad IMO. 

[Diamond Scot]

5 hours ago, ProudScot said:

It’s not just about scoring goals, which incidentally all of the other strikers do better than McBurnie.

It’s about having a touch, holding the ball up and running channels etc - in addition to being dangerous & hopefully scoring a few.

McBurnie, based on international appearances, is one of the poorest players we have seen in a Scotland shirt who have got more than 1 or 2 caps.

His club form is also laughable & his own clubs fans think he is a terrible player and a huge waste of money. 

He was terrible in our last internationals & since then he’s been poor at best for his club.

Just because he happens to be in the EPL does not mean he should be in our team or squad IMO. 

If you are looking at goalscoring he has scored the most goals at the highest level out of the strikers we have.

Everything else you mentioned is subjective and as ive said on here loads of times, the professionals who get paid to kmow and analyse the game thought he was worth spending 20 million on. The rest are valued at 2 million max.

Also, if he is as poor as people say he is, why does he continue to get games in the EPL?

He hasnt been good for Scotland but he has put in flashes of good performances. We arent good enough to discard EPL players who have proven they can cut it in Championship without decent alternatives.

People were saying we should judge Shankland when he moved to Scot Prem as he would tear it up etc. That hasnt happened and now the narrarive has shifted.

[ProudScot]

30 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

If you are looking at goalscoring he has scored the most goals at the highest level out of the strikers we have.

Everything else you mentioned is subjective and as ive said on here loads of times, the professionals who get paid to kmow and analyse the game thought he was worth spending 20 million on. The rest are valued at 2 million max.

Also, if he is as poor as people say he is, why does he continue to get games in the EPL?

He hasnt been good for Scotland but he has put in flashes of good performances. We arent good enough to discard EPL players who have proven they can cut it in Championship without decent alternatives.

People were saying we should judge Shankland when he moved to Scot Prem as he would tear it up etc. That hasnt happened and now the narrarive has shifted.

Get the EPL blinkers off. 

By your statement above you think McBurnie at £20M is 10 x better than any other striker we have.

Nonsense. He’s a horrendous player 

[ParisInAKilt]

McBurnie has been rubbish anytime I’ve seen him, doubt I’m alone in that. 

Obviously some people more qualified than me has seen something in him and I hope he can show us that for Scotland but so far he’s been shocking. 

[fringo]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

McBurnie has been rubbish anytime I’ve seen him, doubt I’m alone in that. 

Obviously some people more qualified than me has seen something in him and I hope he can show us that for Scotland but so far he’s been shocking. 

He's possibly the worst Scotland "goal scorer" I've seen in my lifetime up front. He doesn't have a knack or ability to actually score. Quite sound in other aspects of his game but not with a chance at goal.

[Taylor1996]

There's no argument to be had. McBurnie isn't a good player.

I've watched Sheffield United closely for the past two years. Watched most of their matches.

McBurnie is only worth £20m because Sheffield United were willing to pay it. Doesn't mean he's worth it. Look at Andy Carrol, Liverpool paid £35m for him.

Maybe a season in the Championship will help him, Burke, too.

I hope he improves and I will give him my backing.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Taylor1996

[ProudScot]

Good players stand out like a sore thumb in a bad team. Sheffield United are having an abysmal season & John Fleck has played well and will be a premier league player for someone next season you’d expect. The exact opposite is the case with McBurnie & their own fans say he’s a monumentally bad signing and waste of money. 

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

Get the EPL blinkers off. 

By your statement above you think McBurnie at £20M is 10 x better than any other striker we have.

Nonsense. He’s a horrendous player 

Im not saying he is worth anything. Im saying the professionals deemed him to be worth paying 20 million for and an EPL manager deems him good enough to play pretty much every game in the EPL.

My point here isnt that McBurnie is an excellent striker and we should play him because he plays in the EPL. My point is peoples tendency to inflate our other players ability due to their dislike of McBurnie. Shanklands a classic example. He has had moments of play that were decent for Scotland, no more. McBurnie has aswell but people choose to ignore or downplay anything he does. McLean gets lots of credit for slotting away the pens. McBurnie put his away aswell which must have been hard given his lack of goals for Scotland. 

This is a relatively young player who is giving his all for his country. He went on the Mexico trip when alot of other didnt fancy it. Speaks with pride when interviewed and has stated what scoring for Scotland would mean to him. 

I just think we should get off his back abit and call him for what he is which imo is Scotlands 3rd best striker.

[PASTA Mick]

It is always tricky comparing players that are playing regularly and well at a poorer level than players that maybe aren't playing as regularly and as well at a higher level.  I remember comments on here saying that Robertson should leave Liverpool not too long before he broke into the side.  I've seen similar about Gilmour in the last few weeks.  

The manager has a tough job deciding between players from different leagues and different levels.  We currently have a handful of players around Europe that are doing well but haven't been in squads recently.  

McBurnie does get an unfair amount of stick from Scotland fans.  It's nothing a couple of goals won't sort out.  I'm pretty sure Griffiths was getting a lot of stick until he scored two against england and now plenty of folk still want him in the team/squad despite him being clearly unfit and hardly playing for Celtic - myself included. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by PASTA Mick

[Third Lanark]

6 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

It is always tricky comparing players that are playing regularly and well at a poorer level than players that maybe aren't playing as regularly and as well at a higher level.  I remember comments on here saying that Robertson should leave Liverpool not too long before he broke into the side.  I've seen similar about Gilmour in the last few weeks.  

The manager has a tough job deciding between players from different leagues and different levels.  We currently have a handful of players around Europe that are doing well but haven't been in squads recently.  

McBurnie does get an unfair amount of stick from Scotland fans.  It's nothing a couple of goals won't sort out.  I'm pretty sure Griffiths was getting a lot of stick until he scored two against england and now plenty of folk still want him in the team/squad despite him being clearly unfit and hardly playing for Celtic - myself included. 

That's probably the best McBurnie comment I've seen. Could say the same about Nisbet I guess.

[Diamond Scot]

28 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

It is always tricky comparing players that are playing regularly and well at a poorer level than players that maybe aren't playing as regularly and as well at a higher level.  I remember comments on here saying that Robertson should leave Liverpool not too long before he broke into the side.  I've seen similar about Gilmour in the last few weeks.  

The manager has a tough job deciding between players from different leagues and different levels.  We currently have a handful of players around Europe that are doing well but haven't been in squads recently.  

McBurnie does get an unfair amount of stick from Scotland fans.  It's nothing a couple of goals won't sort out.  I'm pretty sure Griffiths was getting a lot of stick until he scored two against england and now plenty of folk still want him in the team/squad despite him being clearly unfit and hardly playing for Celtic - myself included. 

Very well put indeed.

I always think a good starting point for judging a players ability is what team / league they play in as generally the better you are the higher standard of football you are goung to play week in week out.

However its only a starting point and many other factors come into play like form, whether style fits in with the way the international manager wants to play. 

International football management is hard because there are huge gaps between games. How much weight do you place on previous performances against form. For example Gallagher and ODonnell were solid in last few Scotland games but havent been good for club for several months now. There are also questions about their overall ability at the top level. Would be harsh to lose starting place given their scotland performances however could be equally stupid to start guys that havent had a good game in months and then expect them to have one against better opposition.

[mccaughey85]

46 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

It is always tricky comparing players that are playing regularly and well at a poorer level than players that maybe aren't playing as regularly and as well at a higher level.  I remember comments on here saying that Robertson should leave Liverpool not too long before he broke into the side.  I've seen similar about Gilmour in the last few weeks.  

The manager has a tough job deciding between players from different leagues and different levels.  We currently have a handful of players around Europe that are doing well but haven't been in squads recently.  

McBurnie does get an unfair amount of stick from Scotland fans.  It's nothing a couple of goals won't sort out.  I'm pretty sure Griffiths was getting a lot of stick until he scored two against england and now plenty of folk still want him in the team/squad despite him being clearly unfit and hardly playing for Celtic - myself included. 

Not sure the criticism is unfair, he hasn't had any good performances for us. Dykes hasn't scored loads for us but he's at least looked like he can link up well with others and has performed well in games he hasn't scored. McBurnie could do with scoring a goal or two but until he does then the evidence is that he doesn't play well for us. 

[Burj_Alba]

Chance for Fraser to get some game time ( and maybe save Newcastle's season) now that St Maximam and Almiron are out until April. Still not sure if Bruceball is the way forward though for  a small tricky and creative midfielder, would probably suit Calum Paterson more.

[mccaughey85]

Patterson playing against livi tonight. Maybe someone can give us a rating on his performance. 

[ceudmilefailte]

Norwich forum is all Kenny Mclean tonight seems to be in pretty good form.

Another clean sheet for Hanley and the Norwich defence, it will be pretty hard for them not to get promoted now.

[ProudScot]

Patterson excellent for Rangers tonight. 

Very good at both ends & so quick as well as being good on the ball. 

It’s a matter of time till he’s our right back IMO

[Rab The Crab]

Oli Burke suffers the embarrassment tonight of being subbed after coming on as a sub.

[killiefaetheferry]

15 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Patterson excellent for Rangers tonight. 

Very good at both ends & so quick as well as being good on the ball. 

It’s a matter of time till he’s our right back IMO

This is good news. Hope he plays himself into the Euros. How amazing would it be if we had a right back of proper quality break through at an opportune time? 😂. So not Scotland 😂

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

15 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Patterson excellent for Rangers tonight. 

Very good at both ends & so quick as well as being good on the ball. 

It’s a matter of time till he’s our right back IMO

Had a good game. I keep hearing "ohh he needs to fill out" and "bulk up". He's now played against 2 very physical sides (Livi and Antwerp) and hasn't been out strengthened or pushed off the ball. He's one of those players who looks slight but is actually quite strong. His attacking strengths have always been very good, but I'm surprised how well he has done defensively. I thought he might struggle a little at first coping with the movement and physical nature of men's football but he has been outstanding defensively in these last 2 games.

 

From what I've heard Tav probably won't be back for a while, so unless he gets a ban he will first choice for atleast the next 4/5 games. 

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

Had a good game. I keep hearing "ohh he needs to fill out" and "bulk up". He's now played against 2 very physical sides (Livi and Antwerp) and hasn't been out strengthened or pushed off the ball. He's one of those players who looks slight but is actually quite strong. His attacking strengths have always been very good, but I'm surprised how well he has done defensively. I thought he might struggle a little at first coping with the movement and physical nature of men's football but he has been outstanding defensively in these last 2 games.

 

From what I've heard Tav probably won't be back for a while, so unless he gets a ban he will first choice for atleast the next 4/5 games. 

Rangers have the title wrapped up already so hopefully he gets games even when Tavernier comes back. 

[ceudmilefailte]

14 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Patterson playing against livi tonight. Maybe someone can give us a rating on his performance. 

Who Scored gave him a rating of 7.1 which is above average for an SPL player and means he has been above 7 in every game he has played a reasonable amount of time in.

He also managed a 6.4 in the 4 minutes he played against Kilmarnock which is close to impossible and a 6.7 for 20 minutes against Ross County.

Stephen O'Donnell's season average is 6.6

[ceudmilefailte]

24 minutes ago, Rab The Crab said:

Oli Burke suffers the embarrassment tonight of being subbed after coming on as a sub.

And for Oliver McBurnie at that!