Scotland V Norway

[ThistleWhistle]

4 hours ago, Toepoke said:

What a prospect Oscar Bobb is. Hopefully we don't have to face a team with him and Haaland up front for a long time.

 

Be interesting see how his career progresses as he's only had 4 first team games at 20 according to Wiki.  Looks like he needs a decent loan or move or could fade into obscurity.

It was a bit like when De Bruyne ripped us v Belgium but not sure Bobb is that level - wouldn't be surprised if he had a nomadic career out of what could have been.

If he was Scottish doubt we'd cap him yet whereas Norway playing him helps his development 

Edited November 20, 2023 by ThistleWhistle

[vanderark14]

3 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Be interesting see how his career progresses as he's only had 4 first team games at 20 according to Wiki.  Looks like he needs a decent loan or move or could fade into obscurity.

It was a bit like when De Bruyne ripped us v Belgium but not sure Bobb is that level - wouldn't be surprised if he had a nomadic career out of what could have been.

If he was Scottish we'd not cap him until at least 24. 

I'd love to see us call up Doak like Norway called up Bobb last night.

Doak has huge potential so he's one I'd like to see with the squad

[ProudScot]

5 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Be interesting see how his career progresses as he's only had 4 first team games at 20 according to Wiki.  Looks like he needs a decent loan or move or could fade into obscurity.

It was a bit like when De Bruyne ripped us v Belgium but not sure Bobb is that level - wouldn't be surprised if he had a nomadic career out of what could have been.

If he was Scottish we'd not cap him until at least 24. 

Nope we’d play Kenny McLean in his position instead 

[vanderark14]

I think some on here need to cut Clarke a little slack and also find time to enjoy this. 

We've went almost a generation without qualifying and all of sudden we make it to a tournament, albeit via a new backdoor and then we improve on that by qualifying with one single defeat to one of the best teams in europe. We also had two games to spare.

I can understand frustration when we have been shite and we are losing more often than not but there seems to be a lot of nit picking of Clarkes systems and who he plays going on. 

Relax a little folks, Clarke has improved us again this campaign, next challenge - get past the group stage

[Tartan blood]

44 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

 

If he was Scottish doubt we'd cap him yet whereas Norway playing him helps his development 

This is a very very strong argument as to why we should be calling up Doak now.

We're currently sitting waiting for Doak to get enough game time to merit a call up. But he's competing against elite players to get into the Liverpool team. If he was getting international games for Scotland, that could rapidly speed up his development and help him at Liverpool. No doubt he'd learn a lot by being way with the Scotland players and coaches as well.

Playing Tierney got him a good move to Sociedad. Playing McKenna will probably get him a decent January move away from Forest. Playing McTominay got him back into the Man U team.

[Tartan blood]

29 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I think some on here need to cut Clarke a little slack and also find time to enjoy this. 

We've went almost a generation without qualifying and all of sudden we make it to a tournament, albeit via a new backdoor and then we improve on that by qualifying with one single defeat to one of the best teams in europe. We also had two games to spare.

I can understand frustration when we have been shite and we are losing more often than not but there seems to be a lot of nit picking of Clarkes systems and who he plays going on. 

Relax a little folks, Clarke has improved us again this campaign, next challenge - get past the group stage

We also have to bear in mind that our last 2 draws almost certainly would have gone differently had we needed to win. Not to mention the raft of injuries we had to contend with.

Clarke did the right thing in experimenting with formation and players. I think he probably learned more about what doesn't work than what does, but that is a valuable thing to know.

[mccaughey85]

A few interesting points from these two games. 

1. Doig should really have gotten a proper chance in these games. I think he could potentially be a much better player than Taylor who didn't impress over the 2 matches.

2. We need Angus Gunn in goal and we need Craig Gordon to return and become 2nd choice. I don't trust either Kelly or Clark in goals especially in a major tournament.

3. We need to keep the back 5. Not sure a back 4 works best for us. Really surprised Clarke went with a back 4 in both games. Especially the Norway game after seeing how average we were in the Georgia game.

4. Not sure why Clarke didn't give shankland more gametime. He bailed us out in the Georgia game and deserved a proper chance against Norway. Ferguson should really be getting more chances as well.

Not the worst set of results but expectations are higher these days and even with our injury problems I still expected slightly better from us. Especially considering haaland and odegard were out injured.

Anyways we made it to Germany and Clarke and the squad deserve massive praise. I doubt there will never be another campaign quite like this one. 

[N4Footsoldier]

If anything last night gave us a good idea of who shouldn't be on the plane to Germany, and so was beneficial. People will be lambasting certain players but for me that was never the point.

Given the poor first half and several nailed on starters missing, we managed to salvage a draw (and probably should have won) against what would have been a difficult opponent in most circumstances anyway, albeit Norway were far from full strength themselves. That is a further illustration of how far we have come.

[ThistleWhistle]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

This is a very very strong argument as to why we should be calling up Doak now.

We're currently sitting waiting for Doak to get enough game time to merit a call up. But he's competing against elite players to get into the Liverpool team. If he was getting international games for Scotland, that could rapidly speed up his development and help him at Liverpool. No doubt he'd learn a lot by being way with the Scotland players and coaches as well.

Playing Tierney got him a good move to Sociedad. Playing McKenna will probably get him a decent January move away from Forest. Playing McTominay got him back into the Man U team.

Yeah Wales and ROI seem more open to it and it must help short term to boost their development.  If the club manager sees them cutting it at international level then surely they move up the pecking order or puts pressure on to develop them.

The last two games haven't meant anything so why not chuck him on?  If he does orate it boosts his chance of a decent loan too potentially on the continent.

Instead we've found out McLean's not brilliant out wide and Doak stands out at u21 which we knew both of already.

[Third Lanark]

11 hours ago, slasher said:

I’m not quite sure why the manager didn’t give a start to either Shankland or Ferguson. I’m left assuming he’s still not seeing enough value in them.

Other than that I’m left thinking Armstrong is a much better option than Christie and Patterson/Taylor at full back will get ye hung! McKenna, I think has played well for us recently, I hope he’s looking for a loan move in January 👍

Armstrong is a more intelligent player than Christie, who runs about with little effect and usually balloons the ball over the bar; he hasn't scored for his club, while Armstrong comes up with good goals regularly.

[immcinto]

Not much point talking up Doak/Doig etc. The most in-form midfielder in Serie A can't get a good run in this team ahead of Champioship level journeymen so you might as well forget it.

[C Mc]

As annoying as it was, last night gave Clarke the chance to thank some his loyal back up players, while at the same time giving them the chance to play their way OUT of contention. A cunning plan....

Craig Gordon will be no.2 in Germany if he plays any games at all for Hearts after Xmas.

 

[Third Lanark]

11 hours ago, romanticscot said:

That's the massive take away, in two games we let in 5 goals and it shows first of all our squad is not very deep and how much of a difference those 4 players make....not that we doubted that.  McKenna needs a move in January.  I want to be fair to Clark, I remember the days of David Marshall when we were letting in 3 or 4 goals and he matured many years later. 

Yeah, but Clark is 29 I think and Marshall was at his peak then I think.

[Third Lanark]

11 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

On my way home now. We were punished for some dire defending in the first half but we improved in the second half. We did learn a few things though like for third back-up at left-back we need to look at other options. I was giving Taylor praise before these matches whilst others  did say he wasn't up to it. I now concur I was wrong. Also we need to look to other goalkeeping optionsbas we cannot tely on Clark sadly. Brown I would cut some slack as he got no service. The positives were McGinn, Armstrong, Patterson and McTominay.

We could have done with a win but in all honesty Norway deserved the draw.

Quite, but who? McCrorie has potential but he needs to be playing at least as much as McLaughlin did. Slicker from U21 maybe but he's not playing at a high enough level. I don't think Kelly would have done better than Clark.

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

I'd love to see us call up Doak like Norway called up Bobb last night.

Doak has huge potential so he's one I'd like to see with the squad

I wouldn't have minded seeing Doak getting a run out last night, although it's worth noting that Bobb is over two years older than him.

[Caledonian Craig]

42 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Quite, but who? McCrorie has potential but he needs to be playing at least as much as McLaughlin did. Slicker from U21 maybe but he's not playing at a high enough level. I don't think Kelly would have done better than Clark.

Is it such an issue if not playing though? The Dutch goalkeeper is not a first team regular. Wales get by fine with a keeper who is not in the first team at his club. If his positioning, handling and command of his area is an improvement on Clark and Kelly that is all that matters.

[ThistleWhistle]

37 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

I wouldn't have minded seeing Doak getting a run out last night, although it's worth noting that Bobb is over two years older than him.

Last night was perfect for Bobb as a game with nothing at stake so had a lot of freedom plus we didn't really seem have a plan to deal with him and their right back.

Probably played himself into a decent loan to Germany or something rather than having a list of Championship plodders wanting him.

Be good if we did same with Doak in next few years but there doesn't seem many dead rubbers on the horizon to try it and the friendlies will probably be utilised more conservatively I'd guess

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, C Mc said:

As annoying as it was, last night gave Clarke the chance to thank some his loyal back up players, while at the same time giving them the chance to play their way OUT of contention. A cunning plan....

Craig Gordon will be no.2 in Germany if he plays any games at all for Hearts after Xmas.

 

Agree on both points. 

i think Clark, Taylor & Brown could have played themselves out of a trip to Germany. 

No idea how McGregor got MOTM - thought he was hoaching. 

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Is it such an issue if not playing though? The Dutch goalkeeper is not a first team regular. Wales get by fine with a keeper who is not in the first team at his club. If his positioning, handling and command of his area is an improvement on Clark and Kelly that is all that matters.

Yep I agree. Not when Gunn is available, McCrorie needs to be playing to compete with him and Gordon when he’s back.

But when it’s Clark & Kelly and McCrories been very good for Rangers when called upon, pick your best option.

Clarks not wrong though McCrorie needs a move either loan or permanent in January hopefully. Any SPL teams needing a 1st choice keeper second half of the season…?

[Orraloon]

28 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

 

No idea how McGregor got MOTM - thought he was hoaching. 

Best player on the park. 

 

[BryanBlessed]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

A few interesting points from these two games. 

1. Doig should really have gotten a proper chance in these games. I think he could potentially be a much better player than Taylor who didn't impress over the 2 matches.

2. We need Angus Gunn in goal and we need Craig Gordon to return and become 2nd choice. I don't trust either Kelly or Clark in goals especially in a major tournament.

3. We need to keep the back 5. Not sure a back 4 works best for us. Really surprised Clarke went with a back 4 in both games. Especially the Norway game after seeing how average we were in the Georgia game.

4. Not sure why Clarke didn't give shankland more gametime. He bailed us out in the Georgia game and deserved a proper chance against Norway. Ferguson should really be getting more chances as well.

Not the worst set of results but expectations are higher these days and even with our injury problems I still expected slightly better from us. Especially considering haaland and odegard were out injured.

Anyways we made it to Germany and Clarke and the squad deserve massive praise. I doubt there will never be another campaign quite like this one. 

I've been pretty disappointed with out performances since we qualified but I also understand players, maybe even subconsciously, not giving it 100% when the game doesn't mean much and they want to be fit for their clubs.  In that sense, I can understand Clarke playing those that are borderline in the Euros squad.

 

Did we not play a back 4 when we beat Ukraine and Ireland at home? I guess a back 4 with either Robertson or Tierney would have looked a bit different. It's a bit strange using it as an experiment when the only scenario we'll use it if Robertson OR Tierney are out (and maybe even Hickey too) and if they're both out we'll almost certainly go to a back 5.

Last night reminded me of what we were like before about midway through WC qualification.

[loanhead-tartan]

Thought Ryan Jack looked quite lively with the little time he had on the pitch 

[daviebee]

2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

I wouldn't have minded seeing Doak getting a run out last night, although it's worth noting that Bobb is over two years older than him.

If Doak is playing then I'd like to see Shankland up front.  That cross Patterson put over for Brown... Doak will put these over all game and you want a poacher in there on the end of them.  No point putting them over for a Jacob Brown who clearly hasn't got it or an off-form Dykes.

[PapofGlencoe]

I didn't think we played particularly well in the game and believe Norway shaded us.

Missing Robertson and Tierney really shows.

Thought Patterson played well in parts.

Taylor and Brown were given an opportunity and didn't really look up to it.  They deserved their chance though.

Jack looked better than McGregor when he came on.  (i'd still keep Callum in but good to have Jack)

Despite some reports, I thought Clark did ok in goal, wasn't really at fault for any of the goals with some wicked deflections.

Shankland has to be in the frame for more minutes

 

We were far from our strongest team but shouldn't rest on our laurels, our performances have taken a dip.  maybe a good reality check.

Feel we're good enough to get out of any group.

Roll on Germany.

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I didn't think we played particularly well in the game and believe Norway shaded us.

Missing Robertson and Tierney really shows.

Thought Patterson played well in parts.

Taylor and Brown were given an opportunity and didn't really look up to it.  They deserved their chance though.

Jack looked better than McGregor when he came on.  (i'd still keep Callum in but good to have Jack)

Despite some reports, I thought Clark did ok in goal, wasn't really at fault for any of the goals with some wicked deflections.

Shankland has to be in the frame for more minutes

 

We were far from our strongest team but shouldn't rest on our laurels, our performances have taken a dip.  maybe a good reality check.

Feel we're good enough to get out of any group.

Roll on Germany.

Didn't enjoy last night at all. Defending was abysmal. One of those nights when you felt we were in trouble every time Norway came forward. Obviously Robertson, Tierney and Hickey all unfortunately being out at the same time was maybe just a step too far. With all our best players playing i think we can do well in Germany but if we lose two or three it could be a different story. Keep fingers crossed for a clean bill of health come June.