Future Striker

[JandC]

As has been said numerous times before, we've got a really good squad but are missing a really quality striker.

Rory Wilson looks like he could be a decent prospect for the future. He's currently at Aston Villa and scored recently for the U21s against Hungary.

He's only 17 so Germany is too soon for him but if he lives up to the hype, he could be what we need in the years to come.

Hopefully he can be the next McCoist or Johnston and not the next Eion Jess or Jack Harper.

[JECK]

Been thinking about this a lot and we are still no further forward in this area. If, (and it seems to be an almost impossible if) we can produce that one quality forward line player it takes that team to another level. Doak is the obvious one but it looks like he just isn’t ready yet. The current forward line is just not good enough for the euros imo.
 

I’ve got a nasty feeling we’re going to struggle again in a cut throat major touney without someone to put chances away that will be few and far between.That one Adam’s snatched at v Spain for example. We simply have to get out the group this time. Wales have done it, both irelands have done it on more than 1 occasion - we cannot not fail again.

[Tartan blood]

14 minutes ago, JandC said:

As has been said numerous times before, we've got a really good squad but are missing a really quality striker.

Rory Wilson looks like he could be a decent prospect for the future. He's currently at Aston Villa and scored recently for the U21s against Hungary.

He's only 17 so Germany is too soon for him but if he lives up to the hype, he could be what we need in the years to come.

Hopefully he can be the next McCoist or Johnston and not the next Eion Jess or Jack Harper.

I have high hopes for him as well, but it seems he is banging goals in mostly for Villa's u18s, rather than their u21s. Also, when he was included in the Scotland u21s last year, he was then papped back down to the u17s straight after (if memory serves). It's only the most recent games that he has gotten back in. He also isn't training regularly with the senior Aston Villa squad.

All of that would suggest his coaches don't think he is ready yet. I think we are far more likely to see Doak making an early breakthrough than Wilson. 

That's a bit of a negative spin on it, but I'd say we should be focusing our immediate attention on Stewart, Conway or Nisbet.

[er yir macaroon]

2 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I have high hopes for him as well, but it seems he is banging goals in mostly for Villa's u18s, rather than their u21s. Also, when he was included in the Scotland u21s last year, he was then papped back down to the u17s straight after (if memory serves). It's only the most recent games that he has gotten back in. He also isn't training regularly with the senior Aston Villa squad.

All of that would suggest his coaches don't think he is ready yet. I think we are far more likely to see Doak making an early breakthrough than Wilson. 

That's a bit of a negative spin on it, but I'd say we should be focusing our immediate attention on Stewart, Conway or Nisbet.

I don’t think anyone is saying Wilson is ready yet. I’m fairly sure Villa want him to develop physically over the season as he gets older and then put him on loan next season. 

I’d certainly put Doak in, as it’s a long way till June for a 17 year old and he’ll have improved by then. He’s already got the physique to play. He could make an impact as a sub at the Euros even though he’ll get way better in the years to come. 

 

[stocky]

Conway and Stewart are the only ones I see coming through in time for next summer.

Others mentioned here are for 2026 and beyond.

Unless we find someone with a Scottish granny/papa 

[vanderark14]

34 minutes ago, JandC said:

As has been said numerous times before, we've got a really good squad but are missing a really quality striker.

Rory Wilson looks like he could be a decent prospect for the future. He's currently at Aston Villa and scored recently for the U21s against Hungary.

He's only 17 so Germany is too soon for him but if he lives up to the hype, he could be what we need in the years to come.

Hopefully he can be the next McCoist or Johnston and not the next Eion Jess or Jack Harper.

MCcoist and Johnston scored a grand total of 34 goals for scotland between them and less than 100 caps between them. John Mcginn and Scott Mctominay will likely surpass both tallies and they are midfielders

I hope we find something better than all those mention above

[scotlad]

I liked the look of Keiron Bowie in the past couple of U21 games - he looked tall, strong, had a decent change of pace and could finish - but it can be hard to tell how good these lads are based on U21 football. At club level he's currently playing on loan with Northampton in the English third tier and he's yet to get of the mark this season, although, in fairness, I think he's plays more as a secondary forward rather than the main number nine.

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

MCcoist and Johnston scored a grand total of 34 goals for scotland between them and less than 100 caps between them. John Mcginn and Scott Mctominay will likely surpass both tallies and they are midfielders

I hope we find something better than all those mention above

Agreed,

[theabsentee]

1 hour ago, stocky said:

Conway and Stewart are the only ones I see coming through in time for next summer.

Others mentioned here are for 2026 and beyond.

Unless we find someone with a Scottish granny/papa 

These 2 are definitely the ones to watch. Need them both fit & scoring regularly the 2nd half of the season then Clarke has a big decision to make as I feel both might be better options than Nisbet, Shankland or Brown.

[daviebee]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

MCcoist and Johnston scored a grand total of 34 goals for scotland between them and less than 100 caps between them. John Mcginn and Scott Mctominay will likely surpass both tallies and they are midfielders

I hope we find something better than all those mention above

McCoist - 19 in 61; Johnston - 14 in 38.

No idea if you ever seen Johnston at his peak, but Steve Clarke would skin a kitten alive in the centre circle of a sold-out Hampden to have a striker of that quality available to him.  He was a brilliant player, especially when he moved to Nantes.  His game went up several levels.  I hope we find somebody better than him as well cos we'll have one hell of a player if we do.

[vanderark14]

29 minutes ago, daviebee said:

McCoist - 19 in 61; Johnston - 14 in 38.

No idea if you ever seen Johnston at his peak, but Steve Clarke would skin a kitten alive in the centre circle of a sold-out Hampden to have a striker of that quality available to him.  He was a brilliant player, especially when he moved to Nantes.  His game went up several levels.  I hope we find somebody better than him as well cos we'll have one hell of a player if we do.

Ok I was wrong, its 33 goals between them not 34

I am not doubting both were great for their clubs but neither turned it on for Scotland and had less caps than I would expect for players of their talent

I find it amazing that our top scorer is only on 30 and its still Dennis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Even Northern Ireland have more with David Healy on 36

We've had better strikers than Healy, surely?

[Orraloon]

16 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Ok I was wrong, its 33 goals between them not 34

I am not doubting both were great for their clubs but neither turned it on for Scotland and had less caps than I would expect for players of their talent

I find it amazing that our top scorer is only on 30 and its still Dennis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Even Northern Ireland have more with David Healy on 36

We've had better strikers than Healy, surely?

One of the problems was that we kept trying out different striker options. McCoist was great finisher, but he tended to be a bit part player for Scotland. I think a lot of his caps he got coming off the bench for 20 minutes or so.  Our managers for some reason didn't seem to trust him to be our main striker. At WC 1990 I think even Fleck got more minutes than McCoist. He didn't even get in the Squad for 1998. Ousted by some of the greats of Scottish football like Darren Jackson, Scott Booth and Simon Donnelly.

[mccaughey85]

11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Ok I was wrong, its 33 goals between them not 34

I am not doubting both were great for their clubs but neither turned it on for Scotland and had less caps than I would expect for players of their talent

I find it amazing that our top scorer is only on 30 and its still Dennis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Even Northern Ireland have more with David Healy on 36

We've had better strikers than Healy, surely?

Most countries have produced a really good international striker in the last 30 years and obviously the more international games these days means more goals. 

We really have been terrible for goalscoring strikers in the last 30 years. Our best strikers in that period have been duncan Ferguson who never played for us and wasn't a huge goalscorer anyways and Steven fletcher who wasnt a big goalscorer as well.

Even Kenny miller wasnt a heavy goalscorer not to mention he was pretty average overall.

It's a real pain in the arse that we can't seem to produce a goalscoring striker. Even a teemu pukki level guy would be better than nothing.

[mccaughey85]

Just now, Orraloon said:

One of the problems was that we kept trying out different striker options. McCoist was great finisher, but he tended to be a bit part player for Scotland. I think a lot of his caps he got coming off the bench for 20 minutes or so.  Our managers for some reason didn't seem to trust him to be our main striker. At WC 1990 I think even Fleck got more minutes than McCoist. He didn't even get in the Squad for 1998. Ousted by some of the greats of Scottish football like Darren Jackson, Scott Booth and Simon Donnelly.

I wasn't old enough to remember the late 80s and early 90s but I am guessing that maybe we rotated between the likes of mccoist, mcclair and Johnston too much and should really have just have settled on mccoist as our main goalscorer as he seems to have the best record. Mcclairs record of 2 out of 30 is quite poor considering how many goals he scored for Celtic and united.

Maybe we were spoiled for choice, especially in the mid/late 80s. 

[Orraloon]

31 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I wasn't old enough to remember the late 80s and early 90s but I am guessing that maybe we rotated between the likes of mccoist, mcclair and Johnston too much and should really have just have settled on mccoist as our main goalscorer as he seems to have the best record. Mcclairs record of 2 out of 30 is quite poor considering how many goals he scored for Celtic and united.

Maybe we were spoiled for choice, especially in the mid/late 80s. 

You can add Durie, MacInally, Gallagher, Shearer to that list. We even tried out guys like McGinlay, Crawford and Jess. 

We just didn't score many goals in those days. Not losing was seen as just as important as winning. We often played two central defenders in midfield. 

[daviebee]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Ok I was wrong, its 33 goals between them not 34

I am not doubting both were great for their clubs but neither turned it on for Scotland and had less caps than I would expect for players of their talent

I find it amazing that our top scorer is only on 30 and its still Dennis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Even Northern Ireland have more with David Healy on 36

We've had better strikers than Healy, surely?

Maurice Johnston never turned it on for Scotland?  Really???  Fkin hell!  😂

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Ok I was wrong, its 33 goals between them not 34

I am not doubting both were great for their clubs but neither turned it on for Scotland and had less caps than I would expect for players of their talent

I find it amazing that our top scorer is only on 30 and its still Dennis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Even Northern Ireland have more with David Healy on 36

We've had better strikers than Healy, surely?

 

you obviously didn’t watch Scotland in the 80s then as Mo Johnston was a great player for Scotland - eg versus France in 1989..  People said the same about Kenny Dalglish.

it’s a different ball game playing with players that are not as good as your club side.

 

[vanderark14]

43 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Maurice Johnston never turned it on for Scotland?  Really???  Fkin hell!  😂

I admit to using the Wrong choice of words there. I'm sure we could all pick out a game where he and mccoist or any other striker was great but we've never had a fantastic goalscorer for Scotland.

The original point I was making was neither mo Johnston or mccoist were prolific. We've got a midfielder who will finish on more than mccoist and has already passed johnstons tally.

 

[vanderark14]

 

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

One of the problems was that we kept trying out different striker options. McCoist was great finisher, but he tended to be a bit part player for Scotland. I think a lot of his caps he got coming off the bench for 20 minutes or so.  Our managers for some reason didn't seem to trust him to be our main striker. At WC 1990 I think even Fleck got more minutes than McCoist. He didn't even get in the Squad for 1998. Ousted by some of the greats of Scottish football like Darren Jackson, Scott Booth and Simon Donnelly.

Perhaps mccoist wasn't used enough or maybe not used in the right way. He was a poacher and maybe seen as a luxury. Who knows.

Edited October 19, 2023 by vanderark14

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I wasn't old enough to remember the late 80s and early 90s but I am guessing that maybe we rotated between the likes of mccoist, mcclair and Johnston too much and should really have just have settled on mccoist as our main goalscorer as he seems to have the best record. Mcclairs record of 2 out of 30 is quite poor considering how many goals he scored for Celtic and united.

Maybe we were spoiled for choice, especially in the mid/late 80s. 

McClair was an excellent forward for Man Utd (I think he scored around 20 goals in the 1991/92 season, just prior to Euro '92) but he was often played slightly out of position for Scotland, either on the wing or as a deep-lying attacker, and so didn't find himself in as many goal-scoring positions.

Scotland at the time were managed by Andy Roxburgh, a coach with a penchant for filling his sides with defenders and/or playing players in unusual positions. A bit of a latter-day Scot Gemmill, if you like, except Roxy had some genuine top class talent to work with and he managed to get us qualified for things. He even managed to win a tournament when he was youth coach!

[stocky]

We do produce good strikers, however they tend to be allergic to playing for Scotland for one reason or another...

This century, all top finishers..

Duncan Ferguson

Kris Boyd

Jordan Rhodes

Gary o Connor

Leigh Griffiths

Steven Fletcher

Ross Macormack

Derek Riordan

I'm sure there are more,

Most if not all of these guys if they had, had Kenny Miller's commitment or circumstances had been different could easy have scored 20+ for Scotland.

However we have never really had top scoring strikers for some reason, even Lyndon Dykes has more than Joe Jordan.  

 

 

 

[mccaughey85]

15 minutes ago, stocky said:

We do produce good strikers, however they tend to be allergic to playing for Scotland for one reason or another...

This century, all top finishers..

Duncan Ferguson

Kris Boyd

Jordan Rhodes

Gary o Connor

Leigh Griffiths

Steven Fletcher

Ross Macormack

Derek Riordan

I'm sure there are more,

Most if not all of these guys if they had, had Kenny Miller's commitment or circumstances had been different could easy have scored 20+ for Scotland.

However we have never really had top scoring strikers for some reason, even Lyndon Dykes has more than Joe Jordan.  

 

 

 

Lol None of those guys were good international standard strikers barring maybe duncan Ferguson who didn't want to play for us and wasn't a heavy goalscorer anyway.

It's a fact that we haven't really produced 1 really good goalscoring striker who could cut it at international level in the past 30 years. 

Most other small countries have produced several.

Serbia have kezman, mitrovic and vlahovic.

We really struggle to produce good strikers who can cut it in top European leagues.

Edited October 19, 2023 by mccaughey85

[ProudScot]

34 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol None of those guys were good international standard strikers barring maybe duncan Ferguson who didn't want to play for us and wasn't a heavy goalscorer anyway.

It's a fact that we haven't really produced 1 really good goalscoring striker who could cut it at international level in the past 30 years. 

Most other small countries have produced several.

Serbia have kezman, mitrovic and vlahovic.

We really struggle to produce good strikers who can cut it in top European leagues.

You’re not wrong. I do think Conway can be a decent striker for us though and the one who really really has potential to be very good is Rory Wilson 

[Yr Alban]

What we wouldn’t give for a Gordon Durie right now. Not a superstar, just a decent, reliable EPL level striker.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol None of those guys were good international standard strikers barring maybe duncan Ferguson who didn't want to play for us and wasn't a heavy goalscorer anyway.

It's a fact that we haven't really produced 1 really good goalscoring striker who could cut it at international level in the past 30 years. 

Most other small countries have produced several.

Serbia have kezman, mitrovic and vlahovic.

We really struggle to produce good strikers who can cut it in top European leagues.

I think at least a couple on that list had the potential to be good international strikers but their attitude was wrong. Probably not too difficult to work out who they might be!