Future Striker

[ceudmilefailte]

56 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

No totally! I edited my message too late. I wouldn’t have him in either!
 

But I could maybe understand the argument a bit more if he’s a squad player to bring on to help see out a result

Something Sheffield United did all season when they had their top half finish.

 

53 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmm so playing in the EPL is an automatic card into our squad? Not a chance. International form is far more important and the options the have in the squad kill McBurnie on that front.

No one has ever said that.

People do seem to think that Josh Doig is world clas though just because he plays in Serie A.

[Caledonian Craig]

8 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Something Sheffield United did all season when they had their top half finish.

 

No one has ever said that.

People do seem to think that Josh Doig is world clas though just because he plays in Serie A.

It was stated earlier that McBurnie is EPL and Dykes and Adams are not though so it was suggested.

I put international form way above a player playing in the EPL who has had multiple chances at international level and failing.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just to add though, in fairness, McBurnie was playing in a Scotland team struggling for results and form. But.....

Clarke has built his team around firm foundations of likes of Dykes or Adams up front and we have been on a very impressive run of results in competitive matches. Why change a winning formula?

Is there even a need to change things? And if there is why would you regress back to recalling a player from a struggling Scotland team in the past?

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Something Sheffield United did all season when they had their top half finish.

 

No one has ever said that.

People do seem to think that Josh Doig is world clas though just because he plays in Serie A.

Nobody thinks Josh Doig is world class. He’s a better left back than McBurnie is a striker though. And he’s also not a complete helmet 

[Caledonian Craig]

41 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Nobody thinks Josh Doig is world class. He’s a better left back than McBurnie is a striker though. And he’s also not a complete helmet 

That is about the truth of the matter.

[0Neils40yarder]

18 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmm so playing in the EPL is an automatic card into our squad? Not a chance. International form is far more important and the options the have in the squad kill McBurnie on that front.

Playing in the top league in England, shouldn't automatically result in caps but playing (reasonably well, and certainly regularly from what I can gather) in any top league should catapult any player into the conversation...and most certainly in a position where our options are limited to say the least.

 

McBurnie has behaved like a helmet, as someone pointed out and described, in the past...but come on, do we hold these things against people forever? His commitment to playing for Scotland is excellent, unlike some, who have been welcomed with open arms...his personal misdemeanours are another thing, but these seem to now be a thing of the past.

 

The bottom line is that, we have no strikers that are really any good...Dykes and Adams blow hot and cold at both Club and international level, but I think it's fair to say, that they've both been much luckier than McBurnie with the Scotland teams and players that they've played with. After those two, we are scraping a very deep barrel, Shankland, Nisbet, Stewart and Hardie will likely never play in a top European league, though Stewart has the best chance currently.

 

I think it's time to cut the big fella a bit of slack to be honest.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Playing in the top league in England, shouldn't automatically result in caps but playing (reasonably well, and certainly regularly from what I can gather) in any top league should catapult any player into the conversation...and most certainly in a position where our options are limited to say the least.

 

McBurnie has behaved like a helmet, as someone pointed out and described, in the past...but come on, do we hold these things against people forever? His commitment to playing for Scotland is excellent, unlike some, who have been welcomed with open arms...his personal misdemeanours are another thing, but these seem to now be a thing of the past.

 

The bottom line is that, we have no strikers that are really any good...Dykes and Adams blow hot and cold at both Club and international level, but I think it's fair to say, that they've both been much luckier than McBurnie with the Scotland teams and players that they've played with. After those two, we are scraping a very deep barrel, Shankland, Nisbet, Stewart and Hardie will likely never play in a top European league, though Stewart has the best chance currently.

 

I think it's time to cut the big fella a bit of slack to be honest.

On your first point define playing reasonably well please? He is not scoring as frequently in the EPL as Adams did whilst there and certainly was not a goal-getter for Scotland than Adams has been.

On your second point him being a helmet does not cloud my judgement. My judgement is from how mince he was when playing for us. He had chances and did not take them so why would Clarke axe players who have done far better for us than him to accommodate a serial international failure in the team.

On your third point, Dykes and Adams have proved their worth with some crucial goals for us and have been part of a team to go on an unprecedented winning streak in qualifying matches. That counts for a heck of a lot in my book. Now I am not saying they are world beaters but they are best we have available to us. You make your own luck in this game and McBurnie had chances to shine in a gloomy period for us but he paled into the rest of the dross we served up. Shankland and Nisbet have both done what McBurnie couldn't and scored for us. What this fascination is about McBurnie playing in the EPL is I don't know. He s in the EPL because he was in a promoted team's squad and most likely will be relegated again. I'd offer more kudos if he was signed by an EPL club as it would show how highly rated he was but that was not the case.

I am not ruling him out of a dash at the Euros squad but to do that he'd need to do what I say he is incapable of and go on an EPL goalscoring streak and end up with around 10 goals.

[GroundsKeeper]

I wasn't a McBurnie fan but fair play to the big man he slotted away that penalty in Serbia no problem.

Is he better than Che Adams ? That's debatable.

I don't rate either highly but if Clarke wanted to give McBurnie a game in March in the nations league to re assess his ability at international level I would respect that.

I certainly wouldn't close the door on him. All he needed was a goal from open play, but he looked out of his depth at international level.

He was only picked for squad under Mcleish due to his price tag.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by GroundsKeeper

[romanticscot]

If Mcburnie goes on a hot streak, then I would debate him being called up but not at the expense of Dykes or Adams unless they were injured.  Right now, this season, McBurnie has one goal and one assist so there is no debate for me. What folks did in the past good or bad doesn't have a basis for or against them being called up.

Brining up scenarios where a few years ago in the Championship Player X got 12 goals, right now player Y only got 7, and conclude X is better than Y. There are so many variables such as the team they play with and opposition they played against then there is the job we need them to do or us. At the time I was desperate for Jordan Rhodes to get a fair shake but to have got the best results from him would have meant to change almost everything behind him expect maybe the keeper. 

[aaid]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:27 PM, daviebee said:

McCoist - 19 in 61; Johnston - 14 in 38.

No idea if you ever seen Johnston at his peak, but Steve Clarke would skin a kitten alive in the centre circle of a sold-out Hampden to have a striker of that quality available to him.  He was a brilliant player, especially when he moved to Nantes.  His game went up several levels.  I hope we find somebody better than him as well cos we'll have one hell of a player if we do.

I absolutely loved McCoist as a player, my favourite ever player, but I think Johnston is the last exceptional striker that we’ve had. A striker that if he were playing you’d expect to score.

[aaid]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:50 PM, stocky said:

We do produce good strikers, however they tend to be allergic to playing for Scotland for one reason or another...

This century, all top finishers..

Duncan Ferguson

Kris Boyd

Jordan Rhodes

Gary o Connor

Leigh Griffiths

Steven Fletcher

Ross Macormack

Derek Riordan

I'm sure there are more,

Most if not all of these guys if they had, had Kenny Miller's commitment or circumstances had been different could easy have scored 20+ for Scotland.

However we have never really had top scoring strikers for some reason, even Lyndon Dykes has more than Joe Jordan.  

None of these guys are “top finishers”.

They fall into two categories, flat track bullies - Boyd, Rhodes, McCormack - or guys with poorer than average scoring records - Ferguson (1 in 3.6), Fletcher (1 in 4).

A third category, ex Hibs Neds - Griffiths, O’Connor, Riordan. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by aaid

[ProudScot]

McBurnies recent form over the seasons. Zero here to merit a call up IMO

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, GroundsKeeper said:

I wasn't a McBurnie fan but fair play to the big man he slotted away that penalty in Serbia no problem.

Is he better than Che Adams ? That's debatable.

I don't rate either highly but if Clarke wanted to give McBurnie a game in March in the nations league to re assess his ability at international level I would respect that.

I certainly wouldn't close the door on him. All he needed was a goal from open play, but he looked out of his depth at international level.

He was only picked for squad under Mcleish due to his price tag.

 

March 2025? Still too soon for my liking.

[JECK]

55 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

McBurnies recent form over the seasons. Zero here to merit a call up IMO

McBurnie is the modern day Brian Mclair judging by his Scotland stats. Like the previous poster fair play for the pen in Serbia but just think he’s not that great

[0Neils40yarder]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

On your first point define playing reasonably well please? He is not scoring as frequently in the EPL as Adams did whilst there and certainly was not a goal-getter for Scotland than Adams has been.

On your second point him being a helmet does not cloud my judgement. My judgement is from how mince he was when playing for us. He had chances and did not take them so why would Clarke axe players who have done far better for us than him to accommodate a serial international failure in the team.

On your third point, Dykes and Adams have proved their worth with some crucial goals for us and have been part of a team to go on an unprecedented winning streak in qualifying matches. That counts for a heck of a lot in my book. Now I am not saying they are world beaters but they are best we have available to us. You make your own luck in this game and McBurnie had chances to shine in a gloomy period for us but he paled into the rest of the dross we served up. Shankland and Nisbet have both done what McBurnie couldn't and scored for us. What this fascination is about McBurnie playing in the EPL is I don't know. He s in the EPL because he was in a promoted team's squad and most likely will be relegated again. I'd offer more kudos if he was signed by an EPL club as it would show how highly rated he was but that was not the case.

I am not ruling him out of a dash at the Euros squad but to do that he'd need to do what I say he is incapable of and go on an EPL goalscoring streak and end up with around 10 goals.

Reasonably well...seems to be getting some positive press for his work rate and certain aspects of his game.

 

Who is far better? That we'd be 'axing' to bring him in...I'm saying that he should be considered to be in the squad along with Dykes and Adams

 

Sheffield United went up last season because of McBurnie and his team-mates...I'm pretty certain they could have signed another striker if they felt they could afford one better than him. 

 

If he continues to play week in week out against top class defenders this season, he should be considered on his current form and not on 'aye but he was shite 3 years ago, when we were aw shite'

[0Neils40yarder]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

McBurnies recent form over the seasons. Zero here to merit a call up IMO

A goal every 3 last season...isn't bad at all

[Orraloon]

31 minutes ago, JECK said:

McBurnie is the modern day Brian Mclair judging by his Scotland stats. Like the previous poster fair play for the pen in Serbia but just think he’s not that great

That's very harsh.

McClair wasn't very good, but he was nowhere near McBurnie level of shitness.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Reasonably well...seems to be getting some positive press for his work rate and certain aspects of his game.

 

Who is far better? That we'd be 'axing' to bring him in...I'm saying that he should be considered to be in the squad along with Dykes and Adams

 

Sheffield United went up last season because of McBurnie and his team-mates...I'm pretty certain they could have signed another striker if they felt they could afford one better than him. 

 

If he continues to play week in week out against top class defenders this season, he should be considered on his current form and not on 'aye but he was shite 3 years ago, when we were aw shite'

Sorry that does not wash. If he were an eye-opening talent he would still have shone through but he did not - he stunk the place out.

As for saying he should be in alongside Dykes and Adams can I ask why? Merely, because he is at an EPL club? Those in the squad ahead of him (Shankland and Nesbit) have scored for us before in fewer games than McBurnie hence why they are in the squad. Nesbit scored against Netherlands. Okay Shanklands was against San Marino (I think) but McBurnie played against similar weak opponents without finding the net.

[0Neils40yarder]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry that does not wash. If he were an eye-opening talent he would still have shone through but he did not - he stunk the place out.

As for saying he should be in alongside Dykes and Adams can I ask why? Merely, because he is at an EPL club? Those in the squad ahead of him (Shankland and Nesbit) have scored for us before in fewer games than McBurnie hence why they are in the squad. Nesbit scored against Netherlands. Okay Shanklands was against San Marino (I think) but McBurnie played against similar weak opponents without finding the net.

Have you been watching Haalands performances for Norway recently? Stinking the place out would be an apt take on it.

 

As for in alongside Adams and Dykes, if he continues to play reasonably well at a higher level than any other striker we have available to us. Shankland is an SPFL level fitba player, while Nesbitt has only just managed to venture into a decent level.

[0Neils40yarder]

Nisbett has 10 caps and 1 goal...while Shankland has 5 caps and 1 goal.

 

I get that you don't like the idea of McBurnie in the squad but holding these two up as being better, really is stretching it....Davie Clarkson scored against the Czech Republic...but he was also absolutely gash

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, 0Neils40yarder said:

Have you been watching Haalands performances for Norway recently? Stinking the place out would be an apt take on it.

 

As for in alongside Adams and Dykes, if he continues to play reasonably well at a higher level than any other striker we have available to us. Shankland is an SPFL level fitba player, while Nesbitt has only just managed to venture into a decent level.

Shankland and Nesbit have proven they are goalscorers for Scotland. McBurnie has not.

International football is unique. And it has been proven time and again that a player who plays for a big club can flop at international level whilst players at lesser clubs can excel and be of far more worth at international level. We have seen that for Scotland many times in the past. Look at Charlie Adam - made it at Liverpool but was dog crap for us. Steve Archibald played for Barcelona but has a far worse strike rate than Lyndon Dykes and Che Adams. Graham Alexander never excelled in the EPL but he done a solid job for Scotland. Many more examples of this. That is why I prefer to judge players on performances for Scotland above that of league club form.

[mccaughey85]

This mcburnie debate pops up every so often and its strange. Did no one actually see him for Scotland?

I genuinely think a highland league striker could have played better than him in the chances he had. 

That's not to say he shouldn't be given another chance but lets at least wait until he has a really good run of form before we debate calling him up. If he goes on wee run of 3 or 4 goals before new year then lets debate him getting another chance but until then its not worth the bother. 

[0Neils40yarder]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Shankland and Nesbit have proven they are goalscorers for Scotland. McBurnie has not.

International football is unique. And it has been proven time and again that a player who plays for a big club can flop at international level whilst players at lesser clubs can excel and be of far more worth at international level. We have seen that for Scotland many times in the past. Look at Charlie Adam - made it at Liverpool but was dog crap for us. Steve Archibald played for Barcelona but has a far worse strike rate than Lyndon Dykes and Che Adams. Graham Alexander never excelled in the EPL but he done a solid job for Scotland. Many more examples of this. That is why I prefer to judge players on performances for Scotland above that of league club form.

Scoring 1 in a friendly...and scoring 1 against San Marino?

 

That's proof...my word.

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Scoring 1 in a friendly...and scoring 1 against San Marino?

 

That's proof...my word.

 

 

And no goals in 16 is even more proof if you really need it. 

Scotland are on a forward path and revisiting serial failure McBurnie is regression not progression.

[0Neils40yarder]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

This mcburnie debate pops up every so often and its strange. Did no one actually see him for Scotland?

I genuinely think a highland league striker could have played better than him in the chances he had. 

That's not to say he shouldn't be given another chance but lets at least wait until he has a really good run of form before we debate calling him up. If he goes on wee run of 3 or 4 goals before new year then lets debate him getting another chance but until then its not worth the bother. 

He scored double figures in the championship last season....more than Jacob Brown and more than Lyndon Dykes