SNP leadership election

[AlfieMoon]

13 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Surely people are capable of believing one thing but implementing another for their job. I do it all the time in work. I have to make calls that personally I disagree with because of the bigger picture.

Surely a FM can have their own personal views on a topic but not have that shape their decisions in the job because the job is about representing the country and not just themselves.

I agree with all of this.  I suppose the problem argument is that Forbes said she would vote against, when that was against the mainstream party policy and the overwhelming public opinion in support of same sex marriage. That’s what is allowing people to conflate her spoken beliefs with her (hypothetical) actions. 

[scotlad]

50 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Well I think Forbes fucked it there, I also think that if humza get the gig the party and independence is gone, completely finished,, ash really isn’t in it. I would love for Flynn to come to the rescue but not gonna happen 

 

one thing is for sure, you will get the truth from Forbes regardless by the looks of it 

Maybe it's best to get these things out of the way early on. Then again, as we've seen from the media in this country recently, once they get their teeth into a story it takes a while before they let it go. They can be be very persistent when they want to be.

For better or worse, I don't think her views on same sex marriage or the GRR are as much of a vote loser as some politicians and commentators seem to think they are.

27 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I think the games up if Humza gets it.

If he's the best the SNP can come up with then I think they'll feel it at the polls. He's not even popular with SNP voters never mind anyone else 

Somebody with an incredibly high opinion of themselves and little justification to support it.

Fucking depressing even thinking of it.

Luckily (or unluckily for Humza) at this stage it's only SNP members who have to be to be impressed.

I get the feeling that the opposition fear a Forbes-led SNP more than one led by Humza Yousuf, hence the put-on "shock horror" reaction to what she said today.

If she can stay the course and get through to the balloting stage I think she can win. At the moment she's the best of a poor bunch.

[hampden_loon2878]

6 hours ago, scotlad said:

Maybe it's best to get these things out of the way early on. Then again, as we've seen from the media in this country recently, once they get their teeth into a story it takes a while before they let it go. They can be be very persistent when they want to be.

For better or worse, I don't think her views on same sex marriage or the GRR are as much of a vote loser as some politicians and commentators seem to think they are.

Luckily (or unluckily for Humza) at this stage it's only SNP members who have to be to be impressed.

I get the feeling that the opposition fear a Forbes-led SNP more than one led by Humza Yousuf, hence the put-on "shock horror" reaction to what she said today.

If she can stay the course and get through to the balloting stage I think she can win. At the moment she's the best of a poor bunch.

just unsure now, we need someone to unite, this will now be very difficult for Forbes, humza will split the party and really unsure about ash, the biggest thing kate has going for her is there will be zero skeletons,, i am hearing murmuring regarding humza and regans personal life,, holy shit what a position the party have been left in another sturgeon legacy. The rainbow mob are going tits in the echo chambers of twitter

[Malcolm]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

just unsure now, we need someone to unite, this will now be very difficult for Forbes, humza will split the party and really unsure about ash, the biggest thing kate has going for her is there will be zero skeletons,, i am hearing murmuring regarding humza and regans personal life,, holy shit what a position the party have been left in another sturgeon legacy. The rainbow mob are going tits in the echo chambers of twitter

we all have personal lives.  Nowadays, it needs to be something pretty out there to affect your political standing.  There were constant murmurings about the the previous first minister for example.
 

who would be a politician….  Every aspect of your present and past under scrutiny.

 

 

[vanderark14]

13 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

we all have personal lives.  Nowadays, it needs to be something pretty out there to affect your political standing.  There were constant murmurings about the the previous first minister for example.
 

who would be a politician….  Every aspect of your present and past under scrutiny.

 

 

And as leader of the SNP you would be under increased scrutiny. 

Of all the candidates I'd pick forbes. She's the best of a bad bunch IMO

 

 

[aaid]

Richard Lochhead and Gillian Martin have both withdrawn their support for Forbes.  

[hampden_loon2878]

13 minutes ago, aaid said:

Richard Lochhead and Gillian Martin have both withdrawn their support for Forbes.  

i do think its hard for her to come back from this

[Hertsscot]

52 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

And as leader of the SNP you would be under increased scrutiny. 

Of all the candidates I'd pick forbes. She's the best of a bad bunch IMO

I suspect most of the opposition to Forbes is going to come from within the SNP which don't see her as 'progressive' enough (whatever that means). However I was chatting to a couple of no voters over the weekend and they said Forbes would be be someone they might support.

[TDYER63]

9 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

I think that’s a fairly narrow view.  Surely she can have a top job and a child, many women do.  Besides the child has two parents, maybe the husband can do the lions share.  
 

nobody thought Boris was going to be incapable as he just had a child…. (I’m sure some may have other views on his capabilities)

Well said Malcolm 👏👏

What I am surprised about is how disappointed everyone seems to be about the candidates ‘ limited ability’ . It was bloody obvious no one was going to come remotely close to NS , regardless of what you think about her recent decisions. 

We are where we are . If Humza gets it we are fucked anyway . I dont know enough about Ash Regan plus I dont think she will be taken seriously so my decision is easy. I personally dont care about Forbes’s religious beliefs if she keeps them separate which I am pretty certain someone with traditional principles will. 

[aaid]

35 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i do think its hard for her to come back from this

Clare Haughey as well now, endorsements disappearing like snow aff a dyke. 
 

edit, Tom Arthur as well

It such a bad mistake to make.  I can see that GRR is a controversial issue, it’s possible to legitimately oppose that but something like equal marriage is so baked into the fabric of society that to oppose that is political suicide.  To do that on day one of your campaign betrays a lack of political intelligence I’m afraid.  Even politicians who voted against it now say they were wrong to do so.   There’s nothing wrong in holding those personal beliefs but they should stay personal and not impact their work. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by aaid

[phart]

5 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Well said Malcolm 👏👏

What I am surprised about is how disappointed everyone seems to be about the candidates ‘ limited ability’ . It was bloody obvious no one was going to come remotely close to NS , regardless of what you think about her recent decisions. 

We are where we are . If Humza gets it we are fucked anyway . I dont know enough about Ash Regan plus I dont think she will be taken seriously so my decision is easy. I personally dont care about Forbes’s religious beliefs if she keeps them separate which I am pretty certain someone with traditional principles will. 

I'm not sure what the definition of separate is for folk, but she is on the record saying she'd vote in line with them(her religious views), there would be no separation same as with Merkel who also voted against on the same issue.

Voting record or knowing how a politician would vote on whatever topics that concern you is the main barometer for most folk on what politician they support.

The independence base is most represented in younger people and they have a real problem with it. The demograph here is older , if you got to other fora where it is much younger , say reddit for example, folk are categorically stating they won't be voting for the SNP. Not that any of this is a proper overview of the country both skewed samples etc.

We're so interwined with America and everyone watched Supreme Court justices say abortion was established and they wouldn't mess with it etc. then see what happened later. This is part of the narrative in some places.

It could well be it's just a couple of echo chambers and most folk don't give a fuck though. Just been finding it interesting cruising from place to place online and seeing what is being said. Not often we get an actual election in the independence minded leadership.

[Orraloon]

11 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

i got a boost today when i saw The Forbes was going to run

It didn't last long seeing how the upper echelons of the SNP are now joining in with the Unionists attacking her

The SNP are in real serious danger of becoming the 3rd or even 4th party in Scotland extremely quickly, not to mention Holyrood being dissolved and the Unionists taking control either on their own or through a coalition

 

What this "The Forbes" stuff all about?

[ParisInAKilt]

Funny how it seems to be all about gay marriage etc and not really about independence or other more pressing issues for the majority of the voters. 

[Freeedom]

10 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

I think that’s a fairly narrow view.  Surely she can have a top job and a child, many women do.  Besides the child has two parents, maybe the husband can do the lions share.  
 

nobody thought Boris was going to be incapable as he just had a child…. (I’m sure some may have other views on his capabilities)

Kate Forbes has a 6 month old baby, she may very well have a partner but really no mother should be working during that time of their child's development. It is neither good for her on the job or the baby, she is only 32. 

The capitalist myth that a woman needs to have both a high flying career and be a good mother at the same time is an impossible task. You must forego one for the other and she should take her time to focus on her child without worrying about also running the country.

As to your Boris comments lol... Good one

 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Freeedom said:

Kate Forbes has a 6 month old baby, she may very well have a partner but really no mother should be working during that time of their child's development. It is neither good for her on the job or the baby, she is only 32. 

The capitalist myth that a woman needs to have both a high flying career and be a good mother at the same time is an impossible task. You must forego one for the other and she should take her time to focus on her child without worrying about also running the country.

As to your Boris comments lol... Good one

 

I disagree, 6 months is plenty time off. I know many women who have highly demanding jobs and been back at work much quicker.

what about men, is it possible for them to be good fathers and back at work within six months?

 

 

 

[Freeedom]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

I disagree, 6 months is plenty time off. I know many women who have highly demanding jobs and been back at work much quicker.

what about men, is it possible for them to be good fathers and back at work within six months?

 

 

 

6 months is nothing...

Of course there are lots of women that do both and it is always to the detriment of the child. Two years paid maternity leave should be a standard in this country.

It's obviously different for men, let's not pretend it isn't. But father's should also get a lot more paternity time than they currently do.

[aaid]

28 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Kate Forbes has a 6 month old baby, she may very well have a partner but really no mother should be working during that time of their child's development. It is neither good for her on the job or the baby, she is only 32. 

The capitalist myth that a woman needs to have both a high flying career and be a good mother at the same time is an impossible task. You must forego one for the other and she should take her time to focus on her child without worrying about also running the country.

As to your Boris comments lol... Good one

 

Women, know your place.    

[Malcolm]

32 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

6 months is nothing...

Of course there are lots of women that do both and it is always to the detriment of the child. Two years paid maternity leave should be a standard in this country.

It's obviously different for men, let's not pretend it isn't. But father's should also get a lot more paternity time than they currently do.

who is going to pay two years maternity pay? The government or business?  Full pay including bonus?  Can you imagine covering the maternity pay of the Nat west ceo who just got a £5m bonus and every other senior exec for two years. Completely unaffordable.

personally I think that parental benefit should be between the parents to decide how it’s used and allocated. it’s not up to women to raise children, there should be absolute equality on this.

 

 

 

 

[Freeedom]

23 minutes ago, aaid said:

Women, know your place.    

Hilariously bad faith as always

[scotlad]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

just unsure now, we need someone to unite, this will now be very difficult for Forbes, humza will split the party and really unsure about ash, the biggest thing kate has going for her is there will be zero skeletons,, i am hearing murmuring regarding humza and regans personal life,, holy shit what a position the party have been left in another sturgeon legacy. The rainbow mob are going tits in the echo chambers of twitter

Aye, I've heard those rumours too (or rumours about rumours anyway).

If Humza gets it the party is fucked. The man's a buffoon and with him in charge I wouldn't be surprised if they lost to Labour in 2026.

Given the vote will be an STV system I still think Forbes has a decent chance of winning though, as I suspect Humza isn't all that popular with the rank and file membership and those who do support him are unlikely to transfer their votes to Regan.

Ideally though someone semi-sensible will throw their hat in the ring between now and Friday.

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Clare Haughey as well now, endorsements disappearing like snow aff a dyke. 
 

edit, Tom Arthur as well

It such a bad mistake to make.  I can see that GRR is a controversial issue, it’s possible to legitimately oppose that but something like equal marriage is so baked into the fabric of society that to oppose that is political suicide.  To do that on day one of your campaign betrays a lack of political intelligence I’m afraid.  Even politicians who voted against it now say they were wrong to do so.   There’s nothing wrong in holding those personal beliefs but they should stay personal and not impact their work. 

Oh, there's a shock. 🙄

While honesty in a politician is refreshing she could have been a bit more circumspect. They were always going to go after her because of her religious beliefs - she's not daft, she must have known that - but her comments yesterday just inflamed things.  So frustrating that this has formed the bulk of the chat so far, rather than how  independence can be achieved or how to improve the economy or public services.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Funny how it seems to be all about gay marriage etc and not really about independence or other more pressing issues for the majority of the voters. 

How do you know what the majority of voters are thinking about?

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Well said Malcolm 👏👏

What I am surprised about is how disappointed everyone seems to be about the candidates ‘ limited ability’ . It was bloody obvious no one was going to come remotely close to NS , regardless of what you think about her recent decisions. 

We are where we are . If Humza gets it we are fucked anyway . I dont know enough about Ash Regan plus I dont think she will be taken seriously so my decision is easy. I personally dont care about Forbes’s religious beliefs if she keeps them separate which I am pretty certain someone with traditional principles will. 

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Orraloon]

55 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

6 months is nothing...

Of course there are lots of women that do both and it is always to the detriment of the child. Two years paid maternity leave should be a standard in this country.

It's obviously different for men, let's not pretend it isn't. But father's should also get a lot more paternity time than they currently do.

As long as part of that two years paid leave includes doing some training courses in washing dishes and doing the ironing.

[Freeedom]

47 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

As long as part of that two years paid leave includes doing some training courses in washing dishes and doing the ironing.

Giving mothers 2 years paid maternity leave is sexist and cutting public services is not actually austerity. 

Interesting place this forum

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

What this "The Forbes" stuff all about?

If my term of endearment is annoying you then i will use it more often

One of my pals had a girlfriend years ago with the same surname and that's what we called her