SNP leadership election

[Orraloon]

It's very clear who the UK establishment media don't want to win this contest. Maybe that should tell us who they fear the most. I'm just waiting for some journos to start asking Humza if he agrees with everything written in the Quran 

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Fergus Ewing and Roseanna Cunningham fair did well to survive as ministers and get re-elected. 

so will karen adams at this rate

[PapofGlencoe]

crazy Regan has become a "front runner" by dint of saying next to bugger all in the space of one day.😅

 

[hampden_loon2878]

17 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

When the whole GRR thing started I saw this as a potential outcome.  The Scottish public are still fairly conservative (small c)

remember who pushed this shite when there was zero need to,, she has destroyed the party

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

 

I'm beginning to think loon was right and I was wrong, the whole GRR bill thing and cosying up to the greens has created a problem we should have been facing post independence not now where it can and has been jumped on by the unionist media.

I'm coming to the same view.

I feel annoyed by Sturgeon. She moved the SNP onto a progressive-left agenda, and away from the centrism of Salmond..... fine... but at least see it through.

Instead, she's quit and left the SNP (and wider Yes movement) in a fucking mess.

 

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

Hamzah is the only bam in the leadership race that might dispute basic science.  He is also not capable enough to run the country.

it would be a disaster for both the snp and the country if he gets the job.

He might publicly but both his private education and his faith will have taught him otherwise. That he pretends otherwise just shows up the sleekitness of the man. I guess that's the result of an entire career spent in politics.

Forbes is being far too honest. She should stop answering questions about her faith and focus on policies from here on in.

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

fuckin hell, congrats to the SNP on this. They've done what Scotland always does, get to within the winning post then beat themselves 🤣

 

Haven't they just. 🤦‍♂️ What in the world was transphobic about that statement??

24 hours ago it looked like it was her contest to lose but now I wouldn't be surprised if throws in the towel before the week is up. This is, ironically, turning into a witch trial the Covenanters would have been impressed by! 

[daviebee]

5 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

I'm coming to the same view.

I feel annoyed by Sturgeon. She moved the SNP onto a progressive-left agenda, and away from the centrism of Salmond..... fine... but at least see it through.

Instead, she's quit and left the SNP (and wider Yes movement) in a fucking mess.

 

I keep wondering, why now?  It's just a few weeks ago that she was saying she had plenty left in the tank. Even though that was before she made a complete and utter arse of herself over that rapist, I can't help wondering if something else is on the way.  Why not do it after their special conference, why the sudden rush?

There's talk about these leaked emails containing some dynamite.  Quite interesting as well that her chief arse-kisser Mhairi Hunter has been telling folk to ignore everything they'll be reading over the next few weeks.  "Nothing to see here, move on..."

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

I'm coming to the same view.

I feel annoyed by Sturgeon. She moved the SNP onto a progressive-left agenda, and away from the centrism of Salmond..... fine... but at least see it through.

Instead, she's quit and left the SNP (and wider Yes movement) in a fucking mess.

 

Sorry, but for the last god knows how long, you’ve been coming out with “we’ve had Self ID in Ireland for years with no problems at all” and you’re now blaming all this on Sturgeon.  If there is a problem here then it’s pretty clearly somewhere else.  Do you think the Irish population are a lot more socially liberal than the Scots?  Why do you think this has become so much of a divisive issue in Scotland?

Edited February 21, 2023 by aaid

[Dave78]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

Sorry, but for the last god knows how long, you’ve been coming out with “we’ve had Self ID in Ireland for years with no problems at all” and you’re now blaming all this on Sturgeon.  If there is a problem here then it’s pretty clearly somewhere else.  Do you think the Irish population are a lot more socially liberal than the Scots?  Why do you think this has become so much of a divisive issue in Scotland?

Well, what i'm blaming her for is not seeing it through. She was the only leader capable of pulling a change like that off. Of course the Tories and unionist media were going to use this wedge issue to attack the SNP and independence, but she's backed out of the fight.

And yes, we do have self-ID in Ireland with few problems. Certainly nothing that the opposition or media use to attack the government with. But that wasn't the case in Scotland.

If you're going to fight a culture-war wedge issue against this range of opposition, you need to be up for the fight. Sturgeon wasn't.

[aaid]

15 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Well, what i'm blaming her for is not seeing it through. She was the only leader capable of pulling a change like that off. Of course the Tories and unionist media were going to use this wedge issue to attack the SNP and independence, but she's backed out of the fight.

And yes, we do have self-ID in Ireland with few problems. Certainly nothing that the opposition or media use to attack the government with. But that wasn't the case in Scotland.

If you're going to fight a culture-war wedge issue against this range of opposition, you need to be up for the fight. Sturgeon wasn't.

I like how the GRR bill has all become “Nicola Sturgeon’s obsession” when it was also the policy of Labour, the Greens and Lib Dems but I guess that’s the level of dishonesty we have in Scottish politics these days. 

in her resignation speech, one of the reasons she gave for resigning was that she felt that, she, herself, was a barrier towards getting things done as every piece of business was being reflected by people’s views of her, rather than whether or not it was good policy or not.   The GRR bill being a prime example of that.   

Edited February 21, 2023 by aaid

[Dave78]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

I like how the GRR bill has all become “Nicola Sturgeon’s obsession” when it was also the policy of Labour, the Greens and Lib Dems but I guess that’s the level of dishonesty we have in Scottish politics these days. 

Indeed. I genuinely think Sturgeon could have seen it through and eventually it would be seen as the moral panic it was. Instead...

[PapofGlencoe]

cant imagine either Yousaf or Regan (or a miracle Forbes) having much of a honeymoon period whoever wins.

bitterly divided party. 

It's become so apparent the party has been overrun by incompetents and narcissists.  I can remember the SNP under Salmond and Sturgeon being almost a family believing in a cause.  What a change.

A period of listening to each other with open dialogue needs to happen.  You know people like Jeane Freeman are not bad people.  Neither is Joanna Cherry, Michelle Thomson or Kevin Pringle.  But we're making them out to be.  Can we have less cliques and back to unity again.  No candidate appeals to this.

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

Sorry, but for the last god knows how long, you’ve been coming out with “we’ve had Self ID in Ireland for years with no problems at all” and you’re now blaming all this on Sturgeon.  If there is a problem here then it’s pretty clearly somewhere else.  Do you think the Irish population are a lot more socially liberal than the Scots?  Why do you think this has become so much of a divisive issue in Scotland?

it's ironic (or wrong depending on your view) but I think some Scots believe they are progressive for objecting to total, 100% self-ID.  There's plently left people and progressive feminists against self-ID although it doesn't suit your argument.  Is Martina Navratilova and JK Rowling socially illiberal?  hardly.  I think it's common but reductive to break it down to socially liberal v wee frees.  There was a compromise to be had here with reasonable dialogue and people on both sides didn't want to take it.  We now have intolerants on both sides of a relatively insignificant debate with mantras that don't make sense.  

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Indeed. I genuinely think Sturgeon could have seen it through and eventually it would be seen as the moral panic it was. Instead...

You missed my edit.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

cant imagine either Yousaf or Regan (or a miracle Forbes) having much of a honeymoon period whoever wins.

bitterly divided party. 

It's become so apparent the party has been overrun by incompetents and narcissists.  I can remember the SNP under Salmond and Sturgeon being almost a family believing in a cause.  What a change.

A period of listening to each other with open dialogue needs to happen.  You know people like Jeane Freeman are not bad people.  Neither is Joanna Cherry, Michelle Thomson or Kevin Pringle.  But we're making them out to be.  Can we have less cliques and back to unity again.  No candidate appeals to this.

it's ironic (or wrong depending on your view) but I think some Scots believe they are progressive for objecting to total, 100% self-ID.  There's plently left people and progressive feminists against self-ID although it doesn't suit your argument.  Is Martina Navratilova and JK Rowling socially illiberal?  hardly.  I think it's common but reductive to break it down to socially liberal v wee frees.  There was a compromise to be had here with reasonable dialogue and people on both sides didn't want to take it.  We now have intolerants on both sides of a relatively insignificant debate with mantras that don't make sense.  

I’m going to take issue with two of those names.  Joanna Cherry is a nasty piece of work and is showing her true colours now.  JK Rowling is a thin skinned bully who doesn’t take criticism well and is well-versed in the practice of delivering a pile-on.  I remember her behaviour from 2014, strange that some of those who were so set against her then now cosy up to her now.

[PapofGlencoe]

Just now, aaid said:

I’m going to take issue with two of those names.  Joanna Cherry is a nasty piece of work and is showing her true colours now.  JK Rowling is a thin skinned bully who doesn’t take criticism well and is well-versed in the practice of delivering a pile-on.  I remember her behaviour from 2014, strange that some of those who were so set against her then now cosy up to her now.

you don't know these people from Adam (or Eve).

[Dave78]

11 minutes ago, aaid said:

in her resignation speech, one of the reasons she gave for resigning was that she felt that, she, herself, was a barrier towards getting things done as every piece of business was being reflected by people’s views of her, rather than whether or not it was good policy or not.   The GRR bill being a prime example of that.   

Hmm, not sure i buy her reasoning.

The GRR is controversial because the London parties (or at least London Labour) aren't on board, and she remains by far the most popular leader in Scotland.

If not her, then who? Humza? Doubt it.

 

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

you don't know these people from Adam (or Eve).

By the same token - I assume - you don’t either.   I’m entitled to my views on them as are you.

An example of Joanna Cherry’s duplicity. Today she used the Kate Forbes row to use something said by Nicola Sturgeon in 2000 to criticise her and praise Alex Salmond around the subject of Alex Salmond.  What she said was completely true, however the context of this was the debate on section 28 and the Brian Souter referendum.  This was when Salmond was SNP leader - and I doubt Sturgeon was freestyling - and Brian Souter was a huge SNP donor - and homophobe - under Salmond who never donated a penny after he left.

She has the legal ability to distort and dissemble and the sleekitness of a politician. 

[phart]

A lot of folk wanted her gone , so now she is.

Much like Forbes she has her beliefs and stuck to them, no point wishing she stayed but grafted your(whoever wanted her to think different) own beliefs over her own.

We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

[Hertsscot]

49 minutes ago, phart said:

A lot of folk wanted her gone , so now she is.

Much like Forbes she has her beliefs and stuck to them, no point wishing she stayed but grafted your(whoever wanted her to think different) own beliefs over her own.

We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

And as much as the Unionists revel in this controversy it's important to remember that none of it undermines the fundamental reasons for independence. The SNP seem to have done a pretty read job of being in government at least up to now. But political parties will have disagreements, look at the Tories and Labour (presumably the Lib Dems haven't got sufficient M(S)Ps or members to have major disagreements!)

I'd still rather be governed by the SNP than any of the others even though I wouldn't agree with every current policy.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, phart said:

A lot of folk wanted her gone , so now she is.

Much like Forbes she has her beliefs and stuck to them, no point wishing she stayed but grafted your(whoever wanted her to think different) own beliefs over her own.

We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

I feared for a minute you were meaning Forbes had gone as i have a horrible feeling she might pull out

She should tough it out and go to the membership

[TDYER63]

15 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

And as much as the Unionists revel in this controversy it's important to remember that none of it undermines the fundamental reasons for independence. The SNP seem to have done a pretty read job of being in government at least up to now. But political parties will have disagreements, look at the Tories and Labour (presumably the Lib Dems haven't got sufficient M(S)Ps or members to have major disagreements!)

I'd still rather be governed by the SNP than any of the others even though I wouldn't agree with every current policy.

I agree.

It seems like a constant blame game on here. It’s draining tbh. The SNP have become a victim of their own success. Or of the success bestowed upon them . Whether you blame individuals or the ‘infiltrators’ the truth is they have succumbed to the same pressures of any other party in government. Anyone thinking they were going to run this country for 10+ years as the party that attracted one man and his dog is deluded. 
All this infighting is not specific to the SNP. Look at some of the leadership contests elsewhere. Bloody carnage.
Its hard enough keeping things generally under control when you are in the constant limelight,  but NS resigning is a massive bombshell which was always going to have huge repercussions. As mentioned a million times , there was absolutely no obvious successor and that is even clearer now. 
But pointing fingers and greetin isnt going to help anything. 

 
 

[hampden_loon2878]

34 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I feared for a minute you were meaning Forbes had gone as i have a horrible feeling she might pull out

She should tough it out and go to the membership

Weird as I thought her support would have completely collapsed but although it has dipped she is still in it, some of the bile being spewed from the far left in the party is really bad and tbh the party needs clear of that,, I want a United party, humza is useless and the general public will not vote for him due to his failings, Katie is coming across pretty crazy at the moment and ash av heard is crazy 🤷‍♂️ Forbes would have walked it had she just been economical with the truth. I don’t agree with how venomously she has been attacked, humza’s beliefs are similar and I have seen nothing so aggressive being asked towards him

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Well said. I imagine most of The National journalists/editors are in the Humza/continuity-SNP camp.

 

You're probably right there. The editor of the National's other half has been sticking the boot in on Forbes on Twitter.

 

 

 

[Malcolm]

Humza would be a disaster… watch the snp fall in to oblivion if he wins.  If he does hopefully a large section of the party splinter off to become a centre right party backing independence. That i could get behind.

[Malcolm]

Hopefully Florence McHunt will make a late bid for leadership