Indyref 2 (2)

[Grim Jim]

17 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

.

Can't see that selling well on the doorstep.

Labour on the doorstep? Pah! I've only ever had one canvaser on my doorstep (and that's not a fortnight).

He was SNP and I enthusiastically requested he F.O. as he was wasting his valuable time 😎

[StirlingEgg]

33 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Labour on the doorstep? Pah! I've only ever had one canvaser on my doorstep (and that's not a fortnight).

He was SNP and I enthusiastically requested he F.O. as he was wasting his valuable time 😎

Speaking of doorsteps...a friend said they had the Reform party round recently (they live in a Bearsden bungalow street). The conversation went like this:

Husband: I mean, you guys are pretty right wing though...

Reform man: Oh I don’t know about right wing. We’re definitely Conservative but we’re not Andy Robertson or anything...

Husband: Eh, do you mean Tommy Robinson? 

ANDY ROBERTSON 😂

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

11 hours ago, Malcolm said:

I would be right up for an SNP, Alba, conservative coalition led by Kate Forbes with Douglas Ross as deputy FM.

Anyone who wants Douglas Ross amywhere near government is no independence supporter. You just blew the remaining ounce of cover you had left.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

You may be right. Tories are gloating today but they're a mess. I noticed that the i had a story on their front page about how they'd been speculation that Sunak would call a GE today as he wanted to stave off an attempt to depose him as leader. The  Tory MSPs who are crowing today will be very quiet on social media on Friday as most people expect the Tories to get battered at the local elections in England.

Labour, they're benefitting only because of SNP shooting itself in the foot. They, whether it's Sarwar or Starmer, really have nothing to offer Scotland and SNP need to hammer that home. Labour have betrayed Scotland time and time again, they are Tory-lite and Starmer boasts that they're the party of English patriotism. Can't see that selling well on the doorstep.

Spot on. Nothing to be disagreed with in your post.

[Orraloon]

The people who run the British Establishment will be revelling in their victory. They might be slightly concerned that the numbers who still support independence are remaining stubbornly high. Maybe those numbers won't start to drop until the SNP has been totally destroyed? 

[Orraloon]

16 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Especially when they have previously managed the club and been ineffective at best. 

Another leadership contest. At least by retaining my membership I can have another say but if no one is nominated that I feel is competent for the job I wont bother voting. Picking the best of a bad bunch is pointless plus I am not encouraging a party that just makes the same mistakes again. 

Has anyone got confirmation of Alba’s demands yet? It would be good to know if they were taking the piss or the high heid yins will just never entertain AS. 

Starting to look like you won't get to vote this time round.

[Freeedom]

16 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Especially when they have previously managed the club and been ineffective at best. 

Another leadership contest. At least by retaining my membership I can have another say but if no one is nominated that I feel is competent for the job I wont bother voting. Picking the best of a bad bunch is pointless plus I am not encouraging a party that just makes the same mistakes again.  

Now you're getting it.

[Och Aye]

Whits happened to Aaid att this rather crucial time in Scottish politics?

[DoonTheSlope]

Election now. We demand a people’s vote… 

[PapofGlencoe]

Flynn has backed out who would have been my choice.

With all that's left, I'm probably okay with Swinney.  He has more steel about him than he did 20 years ago.

This is all about keeping the government together and avoiding an election rather than anything to do with independence, though.  I want a decent government but many vote SNP for independence, including me.

I find a lot of the discourse a bit over the top brought on by voracious opinonators on social media.  The SNP are struggling because of splits in the party about gender reform, corruption allegations and Westminster calling their bluff on independence.  Some of that is their own fault and some of it isn't.  The same  people moaning about the SNP also enjoy all the free-at-point of need things. Many would never be put forward by Tories or Labour tied to London Labour, fearful of a backlash.  My own family have enjoyed free additional childcare which is much better than anything in England.  Child payments, rent controls, free transport for kids, vast pay increases for public sector staff.  A non-promoted Teacher can be on £60,000 a year.  from £50k to £60k in 2 years.  The median salary is £32kish, the gap between the two has widened substantially.  For good or bad, the SNP have tried to cater to these "middle of the road" people.  Yet despite this, a few miseries on less impactful polices are hitting support.  They're now being abandoned by them.

I don't see independence happening under the SNP alone and I don't see a suitable vehicle without the SNP signing it off.  They are going to get anywhere between 25-40% of the vote for the foreseeable but never 55-60% which is required.  In other words, they have become a political party, riven by the same problems political parties always have, instead of a national movement.  They should have started a non-party political convention years ago.  This was always on the cards whether you like SNP or not.  Parties become unpopular over time.  Howver, I think many of the politicians in the party have become disillusioned and don't believe their countrymen and women want independence strongly enough.  So they are as well hoovering up the 40% of independence supporters votes where they can, try to fight Scotland's corner but never really push the boat out.  Can you blame them?  

[Alibi]

If Swinney gets shoehorned in, I can't see him advancing the cause of independence any time soon.  He's too bland and isn't going to inspire anyone.  He has a role to play but it's not as leader.

Kelly Given was on Call Kaye this morning rooting for Jenny Gilruth.  That would be a disaster unless you want even more wokeism.

The best person to be SNP leader, even after being away from the job for nearly ten years, is still Alex Salmond.  He puts every other politician in Scotland, and indeed in the entire UK, in the shade.  Nobody can put incisive points across like him.  No wonder Sturgeon connived to have him assassinated politically.  He's the benchmark that we really need to aim for in selecting a new leader, and currently I can't think of anyone who comes close to that level of political nous.  Of the main contenders, I'd say Kate Forbes would probably be the best option as she comes across well.  However, freeports? Hmm...

[PapofGlencoe]

24 minutes ago, Alibi said:

If Swinney gets shoehorned in, I can't see him advancing the cause of independence any time soon.  He's too bland and isn't going to inspire anyone.  He has a role to play but it's not as leader.

Kelly Given was on Call Kaye this morning rooting for Jenny Gilruth.  That would be a disaster unless you want even more wokeism.

The best person to be SNP leader, even after being away from the job for nearly ten years, is still Alex Salmond.  He puts every other politician in Scotland, and indeed in the entire UK, in the shade.  Nobody can put incisive points across like him.  No wonder Sturgeon connived to have him assassinated politically.  He's the benchmark that we really need to aim for in selecting a new leader, and currently I can't think of anyone who comes close to that level of political nous.  Of the main contenders, I'd say Kate Forbes would probably be the best option as she comes across well.  However, freeports? Hmm...

Salmond is by far the most canny and charismatic politician in Scotland in my eyes but he's lost credibility in the eyes of too many.  For example, my wife is appalled I still give him an ear.  She can't see past the allegations, no smoke without fire blah blah.

a lot of folk like that, for right or wrong.

what they probably should do is listen to his tactics and stop viciously attacking him though.

[scotlad]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Flynn has backed out who would have been my choice.

With all that's left, I'm probably okay with Swinney.  He has more steel about him than he did 20 years ago.

This is all about keeping the government together and avoiding an election rather than anything to do with independence, though.  I want a decent government but many vote SNP for independence, including me.

I find a lot of the discourse a bit over the top brought on by voracious opinonators on social media.  The SNP are struggling because of splits in the party about gender reform, corruption allegations and Westminster calling their bluff on independence.  Some of that is their own fault and some of it isn't.  The same  people moaning about the SNP also enjoy all the free-at-point of need things. Many would never be put forward by Tories or Labour tied to London Labour, fearful of a backlash.  My own family have enjoyed free additional childcare which is much better than anything in England.  Child payments, rent controls, free transport for kids, vast pay increases for public sector staff.  A non-promoted Teacher can be on £60,000 a year.  from £50k to £60k in 2 years.  The median salary is £32kish, the gap between the two has widened substantially.  For good or bad, the SNP have tried to cater to these "middle of the road" people.  Yet despite this, a few miseries on less impactful polices are hitting support.  They're now being abandoned by them.

I don't see independence happening under the SNP alone and I don't see a suitable vehicle without the SNP signing it off.  They are going to get anywhere between 25-40% of the vote for the foreseeable but never 55-60% which is required.  In other words, they have become a political party, riven by the same problems political parties always have, instead of a national movement.  They should have started a non-party political convention years ago.  This was always on the cards whether you like SNP or not.  Parties become unpopular over time.  Howver, I think many of the politicians in the party have become disillusioned and don't believe their countrymen and women want independence strongly enough.  So they are as well hoovering up the 40% of independence supporters votes where they can, try to fight Scotland's corner but never really push the boat out.  Can you blame them?  

Absolutely; I am sure most of us know some of them personally too. They'd be in for a rude awakening if they lost their "free stuff" or had to pay for their little darlings to be tutored at university though.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Swinney took the reigns for a while - I can't for the life of me see him being as disastrous as Humza - but he is far to managerial to "shift the dial" on independence, and the fact that the powers-that-be in the SNP seem desperate to install him as leader - possibly even more so than they were Humza - makes me suspicious. Why go all-out on a guy who a year ago made clear that his time on the frontline was behind him?

25 minutes ago, Alibi said:

If Swinney gets shoehorned in, I can't see him advancing the cause of independence any time soon.  He's too bland and isn't going to inspire anyone.  He has a role to play but it's not as leader.

Kelly Given was on Call Kaye this morning rooting for Jenny Gilruth.  That would be a disaster unless you want even more wokeism.

The best person to be SNP leader, even after being away from the job for nearly ten years, is still Alex Salmond.  He puts every other politician in Scotland, and indeed in the entire UK, in the shade.  Nobody can put incisive points across like him.  No wonder Sturgeon connived to have him assassinated politically.  He's the benchmark that we really need to aim for in selecting a new leader, and currently I can't think of anyone who comes close to that level of political nous.  Of the main contenders, I'd say Kate Forbes would probably be the best option as she comes across well.  However, freeports? Hmm...

Cretin backs cretin for leader 🤣 Kelly Given was threatening (if that's the right word) to leave the party if Forbes becomes leader - if that's not a vote winner for Forbes I don't know what is!

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

 

I find a lot of the discourse a bit over the top brought on by voracious opinonators on social media.  The SNP are struggling because of splits in the party about gender reform, corruption allegations and Westminster calling their bluff on independence.  Some of that is their own fault and some of it isn't.  The same  people moaning about the SNP also enjoy all the free-at-point of need things. Many would never be put forward by Tories or Labour tied to London Labour, fearful of a backlash.  My own family have enjoyed free additional childcare which is much better than anything in England.  Child payments, rent controls, free transport for kids, vast pay increases for public sector staff.  A non-promoted Teacher can be on £60,000 a year.  from £50k to £60k in 2 years.  The median salary is £32kish, the gap between the two has widened substantially.  For good or bad, the SNP have tried to cater to these "middle of the road" people.  Yet despite this, a few miseries on less impactful polices are hitting support.  They're now being abandoned by them.

I don't see independence happening under the SNP alone and I don't see a suitable vehicle without the SNP signing it off.  They are going to get anywhere between 25-40% of the vote for the foreseeable but never 55-60% which is required.  In other words, they have become a political party, riven by the same problems political parties always have, instead of a national movement.  They should have started a non-party political convention years ago.  This was always on the cards whether you like SNP or not.  Parties become unpopular over time.  Howver, I think many of the politicians in the party have become disillusioned and don't believe their countrymen and women want independence strongly enough.  So they are as well hoovering up the 40% of independence supporters votes where they can, try to fight Scotland's corner but never really push the boat out.  Can you blame them?  

I agree with this. On the independence push it’s an unbelievably thin line the SNP are trying to balance. Half the support want  an immediate referendum and the rest want to build support. As you say, every government has their day, I am pretty certain that without independence the SNP would be out of power now.

But for what ? Labour? Yeeha. Lets look forward to all the improvements they are going to bring. Yummy.
I could see people wanting a change of government if they could actually see an improvement, but it ain’t going to happen. Yes, you might get a few potholes fixed but you will be paying Boots the chemist for the privilege when prescription charges are reintroduced. 

I am retiring at the end of the year and had a financial guy in earlier to get some advice . He lives just over the border. His son has just graduated and has student debts of £45k. His girlfriend £85k. This is normal. Yippee. Just what every young person wants. Bring it on. 

[Alibi]

2 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Salmond is by far the most canny and charismatic politician in Scotland in my eyes but he's lost credibility in the eyes of too many.  For example, my wife is appalled I still give him an ear.  She can't see past the allegations, no smoke without fire blah blah.

a lot of folk like that, for right or wrong.

what they probably should do is listen to his tactics and stop viciously attacking him though.

Agreed, there is no way he will be able to make a full political comeback, as the relative lack of success of Alba maybe shows; however as a sort of elder statesman figure, he would still be invaluable to the indy movement as a whole (no pun intended...)

[PapofGlencoe]

7 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree with this. On the independence push it’s an unbelievably thin line the SNP are trying to balance. Half the support want  an immediate referendum and the rest want to build support. As you say, every government has their day, I am pretty certain that without independence the SNP would be out of power now.

But for what ? Labour? Yeeha. Lets look forward to all the improvements they are going to bring. Yummy.
I could see people wanting a change of government if they could actually see an improvement, but it ain’t going to happen. Yes, you might get a few potholes fixed but you will be paying Boots the chemist for the privilege when prescription charges are reintroduced. 

I am retiring at the end of the year and had a financial guy in earlier to get some advice . He lives just over the border. His son has just graduated and has student debts of £45k. His girlfriend £85k. This is normal. Yippee. Just what every young person wants. Bring it on. 

Totally agree.  The hilarious thing is, for anyone paying attention and given to a wee chuckle in the face of all this nonsense, is Scottish Labour support all the rubbish policies the SNP have supposedly lost support on.

They also do not support Scotland's claim of right.  Labour have done absolute nothing to push an position on anything.  Charlatans.

So we're in a position where some people have moved to an even worse version of the SNP they don't like. 

There is no getting away from this either.  What will an election deliver?  Labour and SNP on similar votes, Tories on slightly less.  Or even Labour with loads more seats than anyone else.  None of them will hold a majority by themselves and there is no grown up politics anymore.  

So both sides are in hock to Greens or Tories.  Yipee.

 

[DoonTheSlope]

Has he played the race card yet?

Maybe he’s learned his lesson after the last time during the nursery debacle when it back fired on him after it turned out the owners were members of the BAME community 😂😂😂

[Ally Bongo]

Weetabix Quisling Andrew Neil rubbishes Scotland from France

The surprise is that Lesley Riddoch was allowed to show the prick up

 

[Malcolm]

I believe the greens have said they will not work with Kate Forbes, god knows why.  hopefully this ends up in an election.  The gimpy greens can’t be dictating things.

[Redz]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Weetabix Quisling Andrew Neil rubbishes Scotland from France

The surprise is that Lesley Riddoch was allowed to show the prick up

 

She's right - That last minute or so from Neil truly gave me the boak - How anyone can hate their / our country that much is sickening

In terms of independence - Until the indy parties unite as one solely in the name of independence, we're kinda fucked

Sadly, right now there's too many of our politicians that clearly don't want or need it

 

 

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Weetabix Quisling Andrew Neil rubbishes Scotland from France

The surprise is that Lesley Riddoch was allowed to show the prick up

 

Let me apologise on behalf of the entire population of Paisley for producing that utter cunt of a man. 
He is on the front page of his fascist paymasters today spouting his anti Scottish crap. He should be stripped naked and ordered to take the Walk of Shame,  all the way down Causeyside street. 
I really hope he lives long enough to see independence. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than witness his gammon face in twisted anguish.

Meh, that wee rant really deserved to be in the Get it Off Your Chest thread. In case it isnt obvious I really dislike him. 

[TDYER63]

Thought this might have been on here, unless there is a nasty sting in the tail not in the article.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/24275375.thousands-moved-scotland-due-tax-rates-says-hmrc/

[King Of Paisley]

18 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Let me apologise on behalf of the entire population of Paisley for producing that utter cunt of a man. 
He is on the front page of his fascist paymasters today spouting his anti Scottish crap. He should be stripped naked and ordered to take the Walk of Shame,  all the way down Causeyside street. 
I really hope he lives long enough to see independence. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than witness his gammon face in twisted anguish.

Meh, that wee rant really deserved to be in the Get it Off Your Chest thread. In case it isnt obvious I really dislike him. 

Was an ex Grammarian and came from Ferguslie Park. Just like that other wanker Fred Goodwin

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Let me apologise on behalf of the entire population of Paisley for producing that utter cunt of a man. 
He is on the front page of his fascist paymasters today spouting his anti Scottish crap. He should be stripped naked and ordered to take the Walk of Shame,  all the way down Causeyside street. 
I really hope he lives long enough to see independence. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than witness his gammon face in twisted anguish.

Meh, that wee rant really deserved to be in the Get it Off Your Chest thread. In case it isnt obvious I really dislike him. 

He's clearly oblivious to the job Rishi and pals are not doing...

 

[King Of Paisley]

11 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

He's clearly oblivious to the job Rishi and pals are not doing...

 

Neil is clearly not paying attention to the opinion polls regarding independence 

Hates his country that much he does his sniping from France. A cowardly quisling right wing cunt. Ashamed he hails from my home town