Europe 2022/23

[slasher]

1 minute ago, thplinth said:

Fair enough but I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about RFC and CFC the clubs

Being Europe's whipping boys is a humiliation (if that is what it ends up).

Certainly not what i recall growing up as a teen in the 80s.

This is sad case stuff v then which is sad case stuff v a previous age.

The 80’s was a special time in Scottish football before the game was rigged at home and in Europe. It’s a nonsense to think we can go back.

[Clyde1998]

2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

There's loads the SPFL could do to make things more interesting and competitive but the whole operation exists to massage the egos of two clubs. Anything that looks like it might disrupt their pissing contest, even just in the short term, they'll fight against - and win.

Nevermind the fact that a more competitive league will benefit them too, they want success NOW, but their definition of success is getting one over on the other one. That's it, that's the be all and end all.

They'll both go out and beat whichever diddy teams they're playing at the weekend and what's happened to them in Europe will immediately be forgotten about. Scottish domestic football is so parochial it's untrue.

I believe it was suggested in the late 90s(?) we brought in a rule saying you can only have a first team squad of ~18 players, with any additional players having to be home-grown at the club - as a way of giving a path for youth players to get first team football. Guess which two clubs vetoed that though - saying it would harm them in Europe.

[Clyde1998]

1 minute ago, slasher said:

The 80’s was a special time in Scottish football before the game was rigged at home and in Europe. It’s a nonsense to think we can go back.

We'd've been helped in the late 80s by the English European ban - you had current England internationals choosing to play in Scotland to have a crack in Europe. No doubt came to an end when the era of Satellite TV came into effect in England.

[DAVIDB46]

1 minute ago, Clyde1998 said:

We'd've been helped in the late 80s by the English European ban - you had current England internationals choosing to play in Scotland to have a crack in Europe. No doubt came to an end when the era of Satellite TV came into effect in England.

Our best results were before that period 

[ThistleWhistle]

7 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Holy fuck, that's bad. Considering the Welsh and Northern Irish leagues are, I think, part-time, that's bad.

There's loads the SPFL could do to make things more interesting and competitive but the whole operation exists to massage the egos of two clubs. Anything that looks like it might disrupt their pissing contest, even just in the short term, they'll fight against - and win.

Nevermind the fact that a more competitive league will benefit them too, they want success NOW, but their definition of success is getting one over on the other one. That's it, that's the be all and end all.

They'll both go out and beat whichever diddy teams they're playing at the weekend and what's happened to them in Europe will immediately be forgotten about. Scottish domestic football is so parochial it's untrue.

Yeah mate agree with that - the saddest bit for me is Rangers could win 60 plus SPLs and Celtic 59 but if one of the Diddy clubs managed just once in this horrendous construct pretending to be a competition it would massively trump either of those achievements given how badly the dice are loaded.

[Clyde1998]

4 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Our best results were before that period 

Fair enough, it was before my time - so my timeline of Scottish football during that era is a bit blurred. Any imports certainly didn't effect either Aberdeen in 1983 nor Dundee Utd in 1987, as both of their teams were entirely Scottish. You'd never get that today.

[ThistleWhistle]

12 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

I think we're slowly seeing that from the smaller clubs in Scotland - I'm thinking Aberdeen (with Ferguson, Ramsay, McKenna), Hibs (with Doig), Hearts (with Hickey) and Dundee Utd (with Smith) all in recent seasons for £1m+. Of course that requires having players teams from biggest leagues want to buy, which seems to slowly be improving also. These sort of clubs do need to stop buying late-20s/early-30s players though, especially if they can bring through some young players instead.

There's no reason Celtic and Rangers can't become comparable to the top Portuguese or Dutch clubs through pursuing the bring through youth players model and/or buy young players cheap to sell for a profit model - you could argue Rangers have done this with the sales of Bassey and Patterson, although it's yet to be seen if that's the start of a trend. Leon King would be the one to watch on that front.

I think for them to become like one of those leagues they need to start buying the young players from within it to flog on then supplement with outside talent.

Diddy clubs are getting some success selling youngsters but it's effectively cutting out the middle man and risky as raw potential is going into EPL development squads maybe never to be seen again.  If Rangers and Celtic had more strategy around this they instead could buy the talent, polish it up with first team European football for a few seasons then sell to the EPL first team squads instead.

The Diddy clubs had to take 28 year old journeymen on with nobresale value before as they couldn't afford to buy anyone.  Its only fairly recently too there's been some dosh available to invest in youth set ups which is absolutely mental really.

[robbo cop]

Back in the 80s it was only the league winners who played in the then European Cup which was a straight knockout over two legs, now it is 4 teams from certain countries who then get a second bite of the cherry if they do not progress which of course makes the rich even richer. Absolute bollocks imo, but then I was brought up watching football in the 70s and 80s.

What Celtic, Rangers and my own team Aberdeen  achieved by winning European trophies was phenomenal and sadly will most likely never be repeated because of the greed that has taken over.

I cannot remember the last time I watched a champions League match.

The 70s and 80s was indeed a magical time for Scottish football, not just for the league and cups but our national team were qualifying for World Cups on a regular basis.

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, robbo cop said:

What Celtic, Rangers and my own team Aberdeen  achieved by winning European trophies was phenomenal and sadly will most likely never be repeated because of the greed that has taken over.

Rangers were a penalty shootout away from winning a European trophy five months ago!

 

[ger intae them]

and a ‘normal’ mcgregor performance sees him save 3 or 4 of them, brings the defeat down to a 3-1 loss and there would just be normal despair about Scottish football  rather than extreme despair……… but guess if yer auntie had baws……

[thplinth]

8 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Rangers were a penalty shootout away from winning a European trophy five months ago!

 

True but 1-7 at home and a six minute hat trick is a bit of a gubbing. Was not paying enough attention to see what caused the collapse. Was it after GVB made his substitutions? I think Rangers bringing on a hugely fat striker maybe insulted them and made them angry. 😀

[Fairbairn]

Well that was pretty humbling.  The result is obviously disappointing but more disappointing is the way we chucked it with about 20 minutes to go especially after playing quite well in the first half.  The defence had looked relatively solid (Tav's shocker for their goal aside) but once Goldson went off we seemed to crumble and it could have been 10.  

I don't see GVB having the spark required to motivate this group of players from here but can't think of any realistic targets who would do better with them.  For all we've done well in getting decent money in over the last 6 months the mismanagement to let Kent and Morelos wind down their contracts and to refuse sizeable bids for Kamara and then not play him is criminal.  I'm not sure if Gio should go but we definitely need an overhaul on the recruitment front as it's been shocking for a couple of years now.

[thplinth]

Felt a bit sorry for McGregor. That second half ended up a blitzkrieg. Can't imagine he had great nights sleep after that. Mo Salah would hive been popping up in his dreams to slot another passed him all night.

Salah is something else though. He seems able to take two steps where other players can only manage one. Nimble as fuck. I think Rangers were totally shell shocked by him. He was only on the pitch 13 minutes as a sub and had netted a hat trick. it was a bit of a crazy end to the game it felt. Be interesting to see how Rangers do domestically now. Bit of a confidence shaker maybe.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

9 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

We'd've been helped in the late 80s by the English European ban - you had current England internationals choosing to play in Scotland to have a crack in Europe. No doubt came to an end when the era of Satellite TV came into effect in England.

I believe this was the time it all started to go pete tong in scottish football ; start of the big money signings by souness at rangers ; took a few seasons to get it bang on , but then started dominating , until celtic caught up

I remember they spent 1 million on paul rideout to cover hatelys 6 week injury ; in the same league as airdrie etc

[SamP]

I don't think Rangers or Celtic were a disgrace this week.  It shows where we are in the pecking order.  As long as the big 4 countries share the lions share of cash and all the tv wealth that comes from it, things won't change.  Too many factors to be taken in to it but understandable why non OF fans are laughing up their sleeves and now you know how we feel.  But on the positive side the Jambos should get a result tonight in Florence!!!

[dandydunn]

10 hours ago, scotlad said:

Holy fuck, that's bad. Considering the Welsh and Northern Irish leagues are, I think, part-time, that's bad.

 

 

To be fair though, how often do a team from last seasons CL final meet with Linfield, TNS or Barry Town in the group stages?

Thats a very misleading stat imo, not that I’m defending the result, but it’s not a great context to use. 

[dandydunn]

10 hours ago, robbo cop said:

 

I cannot remember the last time I watched a champions League match.

 

You should’ve watched last night, it was wonderful viewing 😂😂

10 hours ago, robbo cop said:

 

 

[robbo cop]

25 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

 

You should’ve watched last night, it was wonderful viewing 😂😂

 

The result was enough to make me smile.

[SamP]

The only thing I can think of is for the fans of the clubs outside the OF to join together and rally against the SFA and League committees to press for change.  We have all seen the results of the think tanks over the years and nothing has changed.  Scottish football cannot go on like this.  Only the fans have the power to make it change.  Chairmen/women of singular clubs will always vote for what is best for their own club.  If the fans of the other clubs got together it might make a difference?

[Jersey Jim]

1 hour ago, SamP said:

The only thing I can think of is for the fans of the clubs outside the OF to join together and rally against the SFA and League committees to press for change.  We have all seen the results of the think tanks over the years and nothing has changed.  Scottish football cannot go on like this.  Only the fans have the power to make it change.  Chairmen/women of singular clubs will always vote for what is best for their own club.  If the fans of the other clubs got together it might make a difference?

St Mirren did listen to their fans by only giving the Old Firm one stand when they visit Paisley, this caused outrage amongst Celtic supporters last month, we were accused of cutting off our noses to spite our faces. 

 

But the simple fact is the attendance was only 200 less than the corresponding fixture last season, that means an extra 1100 Saints fans turned up, factoring in reduced policing costs Saints were quids in, oh and we won 2-0 as well, on the back of that victory  next home fixture we had 1300 more fans against Livingston than our previous home game against them.

 

Treat them with the same contempt they treat us and stop fkn pandering to them is the way forward. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Jersey Jim

[SamP]

10 minutes ago, Jersey Jim said:

St Mirren did listen to their fans by only giving the Old Firm one stand when they visit Paisley, this caused outrage amongst Celtic supporters last month, we were accused of cutting off our noses to spite our faces. 

 

But the simple fact is the attendance was only 200 less than the corresponding fixture last season, that means an extra 1100 Saints fans turned up, factoring in reduced policing costs Saints were quids in, oh and we won 2-0 as well, on the back of that victory  next home fixture we had 1300 more fans against Livingston than our previous home game against them.

 

Treat them with the same contempt they treat us and stop fkn pandering to them is the way forward. 

Totally agree with that Jim.  But St Mirren alone are not big enough to take on the Scottish football authorities or the OF.  One club cannot do it alone.  But that is a good example.  The Tartan Army should also do it.  I am not talking about boycotting games of your own club.  Just talking about a show of strength against those who are supposed to be in charge.  But always pander to the OF because they are the biggest two.

[Redz]

15 hours ago, slasher said:

Likewise, the diddy clubs had the perfect opportunity to restructure Scottish football forever when the huns died in 2012. Instead they shat it and lacked the vision to change things.

Nothing to stop it being revisited 

However it would require the Huns and Tims to show they have the desire and vision you speak of too

[Redz]

57 minutes ago, Jersey Jim said:

Treat them with the same contempt they treat us and stop fkn pandering to them is the way forward. 

When Sevco tried to take a place in the top division, following their application to join the league system, the other clubs, well enough anyway, told their respective chairmen/women that if that happened they could ram their ST renewals. 

So it can work, it just needs the appetite 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Redz

[vanderark14]

11 minutes ago, Redz said:

Nothing to stop it being revisited 

However it would require the Huns and Tims to show they have the desire and vision you speak of too

It can be revisited but it would need 10 self serving clubs to work together. I hoped cormack would be different and he may rock the boat but he's a wimp as well. His begging bowl email re the TV deal was a disgrace 

[SamP]

8 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

It can be revisited but it would need 10 self serving clubs to work together. I hoped cormack would be different and he may rock the boat but he's a wimp as well. His begging bowl email re the TV deal was a disgrace 

But therein lies the problem.  The whole systems need to change with the Huns and Tims not getting their way.  Still believe only fans can change it if they have the will to do it.  Plenty of other groups of ordinary working men and woman have forced change in own industries.