Scotland vs Israel - Match Thread [08/10/2020]

[Rolling hIlls]

6 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

Im not sure you understood my point. I didnt say football wasn't entertaining, I said that as a Sport its not required to be. 

Of course football is entertaining but comes from it being competative.   

If scooby doo is your alterantive choice of entertainment, it does explain alot! 

I love football and I very much enjoyed that game last night and was very Happy. We won and are through to the final of the play offs! Buzzing! 

I enjoyed it much more than beating Gibralta 6-0 or Malta 5-1 although those games had more attacking from us and more creativity and more goals. They were alot less competative and the wins didnt take us much closer to achieving anything great.

Ok kid.  Sport is not required to be entertaining in your opinion.  We will leave it at that.  

[Super_Scotlandfan]

25 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Marshall - a solid, dependable and good keeper. Has made some massive saves in the past for us, but I think his distribution is really poor. I stopped counting, but 8 of his kicks/punts up field went straight to a white jersey.

O'Donnell - I like the guy, he obviously loves playing for his country and runs his heart out, but it really shows at times that he is not good enough at this level. He's a useful squad member to have and he did have a better second half - his passing is very good though - but don't know if that makes up for being exposed time and time again.

Robertson - his best game in donkey's for us? Lots of driving runs and it was fantastic to see him riled up at the breaks between half-time, really impressive performance and his passing, crossing was very good. Well worthy of the captain armband last night.

Cooper - haven't seen enough of him, but he did well. A no-nonsense defender and tight marking.

Gallagher - I've thought he has played excellent for us. A big, bold and sturdy defender. Can spot a pass, and whilst he can be a bit handsy - sent off for Motherwell in Europe - and that incident last night where he went down (he had his hands all over the Israeli lad) He doesn't look out of place at all.

McTominay - did very well considering the last time he played there and even helped out SOD, the few times he was over-exposed. Really like the guy, gives his all, although a bit wasted playing where he has the last few games. Certainly did very well last night, so maybe Clarke is the genius after all?

McGinn - worked very hard, and had some good runs, but maybe his worst game in a while? Whilst it wasn't that bad, he possibly was trying too much considering the players we had out. He's best used further up the field, so hopefully when others are back, we can utilise him to his potential. Saying that, he wasn't bad last night but considering his lofty high standards, it was one of his poorer games which wasn't bad at all, if that makes sense.

Ryan Jack - a good tackler, and a key player to have there. Although felt some of his good work of tackling and intercepting Israeli passes went undone by giving it back to the opposition. I've been impressed though, and he's certainly pushing to be in the starting XI in the future.

Callum McGregor - his best Scotland game in donkeys. He's come in to some form at club level too, and hopefully he pushes on and on to help us in November. Lots of neat, tidy, and clever passes along with good runs and support play. Possibly our best player last night.

Oliver McBurnie - looked like he ran a bit more, and tried harder but no, I don't see it. I'm fairly open minded, but I just don't see what he offers. It's a tough job up there at times for Scotland, but he is constantly tackled or gives the ball back to the opponents. I don't see enough of him in the Premier League, but I don't rate him.

Lyndon Dykes - a quieter game than last month, and whilst similar in style and play to McBurnie, it didn't quite work out for him this time around yet I still think he played better and offered more than McBurnie did. Not sure if he's good enough to be seen as a regular starter, but certainly a valued addition to the squad.

Lawrence Shankland - came on a bit late and considering both teams had almost shut up shop for penalties, didn't have much to work on. He did well. Clever play, and got himself in to a few dangerous positions, had a decent chance and hope to see him start against Slovakia to see what he can do at this level.

Ryan Fraser - did well. Goes down a bit too easy? And similar to Christie in that he tries a lot of things, many don't come off but the ones that do often can lead to goals or the start of a goal. He looked a little unfit, so hoping he can get some more game time at Newcastle and pushF on for November.

Callum Paterson - worked hard and did very well. A very good squad player, and works hard, generally skillful and very handy that he can play almost anywhere. A bit like Fraser, hoping for more game time and wouldn't mind seeing him start in the next two games to see what he can offer.

Kenny McLean - not enough time but didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Scored a cracking penalty too.

It wasn't great nor pretty at times, but we looked a lot more solid at the back - although I'd imagine a better side would have scored or put us under a lot more pressure. A clean sheet isn't to be sniffed at , so there's the bonus of that.

Attacking wise, we didn't create much at all. We looked a little more dangerous when Fraser came on, and we need McGinn to play further up. What we'd give for a very good striker!

Positives are we got through, the psychological boost that will give the players. We have 5-6 players to come back in November and 2/3 of them are huge key players for us.

Serbia is going to be a very difficult game, they are a good side ; but if we can keep it tight like last night then who knows.

 

Good post. Agree with you on McGinn, was trying a little too hard as he was really our only creative player. If Christie was on the pitch we wouldn’t have to rely on him as much. He could have been looking to get on the end of things rather having to make it happen himself. 
 

Obvious changes for the Serbia game are to play Christie, to replace SOD and finding a position for Fraser within the system. 
 

Anyone realise how well the right footed Elhamed did at left wing back? Starting to think that Tierney’s best position in this system is RWB rather than left centre back. 
 

Tierney is a far more talented player than Elhamed as I’m sure Celtic fans will agree. Would have been interesting to play him there in one of these next games!

[PASTA Mick]

Getting through was the main thing.  We've done that with 6-8 key players missing.  IF we can get all them back for next month, we do have a chance.  We aren't a team that can easily cope with losing players of the quality of Tierney, Christie, Forrest and Armstrong very easily.  Burke and Griffiths also add some quality to our squad.  

Since losing 4-in-a-row we have now gone 6 games without defeats, albeit against teams that are probably a bit weaker than we are.  We have 2 winnable matches this week against stronger sides than we've played recently.  Hopefully we can claim another 4-6 points and go into the Serbia match full of confidence.  

[Rolling hIlls]

38 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Marshall - a solid, dependable and good keeper. Has made some massive saves in the past for us, but I think his distribution is really poor. I stopped counting, but 8 of his kicks/punts up field went straight to a white jersey.

O'Donnell - I like the guy, he obviously loves playing for his country and runs his heart out, but it really shows at times that he is not good enough at this level. He's a useful squad member to have and he did have a better second half - his passing is very good though - but don't know if that makes up for being exposed time and time again.

Robertson - his best game in donkey's for us? Lots of driving runs and it was fantastic to see him riled up at the breaks between half-time, really impressive performance and his passing, crossing was very good. Well worthy of the captain armband last night.

Cooper - haven't seen enough of him, but he did well. A no-nonsense defender and tight marking.

Gallagher - I've thought he has played excellent for us. A big, bold and sturdy defender. Can spot a pass, and whilst he can be a bit handsy - sent off for Motherwell in Europe - and that incident last night where he went down (he had his hands all over the Israeli lad) He doesn't look out of place at all.

McTominay - did very well considering the last time he played there and even helped out SOD, the few times he was over-exposed. Really like the guy, gives his all, although a bit wasted playing where he has the last few games. Certainly did very well last night, so maybe Clarke is the genius after all?

McGinn - worked very hard, and had some good runs, but maybe his worst game in a while? Whilst it wasn't that bad, he possibly was trying too much considering the players we had out. He's best used further up the field, so hopefully when others are back, we can utilise him to his potential. Saying that, he wasn't bad last night but considering his lofty high standards, it was one of his poorer games which wasn't bad at all, if that makes sense.

Ryan Jack - a good tackler, and a key player to have there. Although felt some of his good work of tackling and intercepting Israeli passes went undone by giving it back to the opposition. I've been impressed though, and he's certainly pushing to be in the starting XI in the future.

Callum McGregor - his best Scotland game in donkeys. He's come in to some form at club level too, and hopefully he pushes on and on to help us in November. Lots of neat, tidy, and clever passes along with good runs and support play. Possibly our best player last night.

Oliver McBurnie - looked like he ran a bit more, and tried harder but no, I don't see it. I'm fairly open minded, but I just don't see what he offers. It's a tough job up there at times for Scotland, but he is constantly tackled or gives the ball back to the opponents. I don't see enough of him in the Premier League, but I don't rate him.

Lyndon Dykes - a quieter game than last month, and whilst similar in style and play to McBurnie, it didn't quite work out for him this time around yet I still think he played better and offered more than McBurnie did. Not sure if he's good enough to be seen as a regular starter, but certainly a valued addition to the squad.

Lawrence Shankland - came on a bit late and considering both teams had almost shut up shop for penalties, didn't have much to work on. He did well. Clever play, and got himself in to a few dangerous positions, had a decent chance and hope to see him start against Slovakia to see what he can do at this level.

Ryan Fraser - did well. Goes down a bit too easy? And similar to Christie in that he tries a lot of things, many don't come off but the ones that do often can lead to goals or the start of a goal. He looked a little unfit, so hoping he can get some more game time at Newcastle and pushF on for November.

Callum Paterson - worked hard and did very well. A very good squad player, and works hard, generally skillful and very handy that he can play almost anywhere. A bit like Fraser, hoping for more game time and wouldn't mind seeing him start in the next two games to see what he can offer.

Kenny McLean - not enough time but didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Scored a cracking penalty too.

It wasn't great nor pretty at times, but we looked a lot more solid at the back - although I'd imagine a better side would have scored or put us under a lot more pressure. A clean sheet isn't to be sniffed at , so there's the bonus of that.

Attacking wise, we didn't create much at all. We looked a little more dangerous when Fraser came on, and we need McGinn to play further up. What we'd give for a very good striker!

Positives are we got through, the psychological boost that will give the players. We have 5-6 players to come back in November and 2/3 of them are huge key players for us.

Serbia is going to be a very difficult game, they are a good side ; but if we can keep it tight like last night then who knows.

 

Have you got a whippet and a couple of cans of Kestrel to make you an expert in the game? 👍

[HandofRhod]

4 minutes ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Good post. Agree with you on McGinn, was trying a little too hard as he was really our only creative player. If Christie was on the pitch we wouldn’t have to rely on him as much. He could have been looking to get on the end of things rather having to make it happen himself. 
 

Obvious changes for the Serbia game are to play Christie, to replace SOD and finding a position for Fraser within the system. 
 

Anyone realise how well the right footed Elhamed did at left wing back? Starting to think that Tierney’s best position in this system is RWB rather than left centre back. 
 

Tierney is a far more talented player than Elhamed as I’m sure Celtic fans will agree. Would have been interesting to play him there in one of these next games!

Very Much agree with you on this!

For serbia  assuming Clark is gonna stick with 352 then the back 3 should stays the same after last ngiht perfomarnce, robbo LWB -  KT RWB

Then depends how open you want to go in midfield  -  jack and Mcgregor did a good job defensively last night as holding midfieldsr but but maybe didnt retain possession enough or create to much  if u want to keep that defensive security against a better team they probably both have to play.   Dykes will most liley still play id say.

That leaves 2 attacking places between, a whole host of players  - top of the list is porbably  - mcginn, christie, fraser, shankland, mcburnie 

This is not to mention armstrong,forrest, patterson,grithiths

You could maybe be a bit more attacking in midfield if you replace jack or mcgregor with McTom or Mcgin. + had Christie or Fraser ahead

Id be worried about having fraser and christe both pklaynig behind 1 strikers cos the 352 looked alot better with 2 strikers as opposed to 1 and 2 kind of wide attacking mids

[Clyde1998]

I'm surprised some people expected Norway to beat Serbia - I think Serbia are a slightly better side than Norway, especially outwith Haaland. Also that's taking into account they've only beaten Northern Ireland, Malta (twice) and the Faroe Islands (twice) in the past year, albeit with as many draws: Sweden (twice), Romania (twice) and Spain. Although, Norway's only lost their first home match in fifteen in their previous home game against Austria.

The Serbs on the other hand appear to have more players at a higher level, don't seem to be as dependant on a single player and have similar form to Norway; Norway have been better than Serbia at home since the start of 2018 (73% of points (inc. equivalent points for friendlies) compared to 54% for Serbia).

Our away record does worry me going to Serbia; we've won five of eleven (losing the rest, with three being by three or more goals) going back to the start of 2018. Our defence seems a lot more solid than in did in recent matches and we're now unbeaten in six. Outwith three games against Israel and Kazakhstan, we've not had a surprising results in that time either (over 23 matches), and two of them were struggling to break Israel down.

I wonder if we'll naturally be better against Serbia as they'll come and attack us, giving us the opportunity to counter attack - something Israel didn't allow us to do. If we can nick a goal, we've got a good chance next month.

The upcoming Nations League games should really be used to get our tactics sorted for the Serbia game; notwithstanding the fact we'll probably have six players return to the squad.

[HandofRhod]

3 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

I'm surprised some people expected Norway to beat Serbia - I think Serbia are a slightly better side than Norway, especially outwith Haaland. Also that's taking into account they've only beaten Northern Ireland, Malta (twice) and the Faroe Islands (twice) in the past year, albeit with as many draws: Sweden (twice), Romania (twice) and Spain. Although, Norway's only lost their first home match in fifteen in their previous home game against Austria.

The Serbs on the other hand appear to have more players at a higher level, don't seem to be as dependant on a single player and have similar form to Norway; Norway have been better than Serbia at home since the start of 2018 (73% of points (inc. equivalent points for friendlies) compared to 54% for Serbia).

Our away record does worry me going to Serbia; we've won five of eleven (losing the rest, with three being by three or more goals) going back to the start of 2018. Our defence seems a lot more solid than in did in recent matches and we're now unbeaten in six. Outwith three games against Israel and Kazakhstan, we've not had a surprising results in that time either (over 23 matches), and two of them were struggling to break Israel down.

I wonder if we'll naturally be better against Serbia as they'll come and attack us, giving us the opportunity to counter attack - something Israel didn't allow us to do. If we can nick a goal, we've got a good chance next month.

The upcoming Nations League games should really be used to get our tactics sorted for the Serbia game; notwithstanding the fact we'll probably have six players return to the squad.

Good Points.

I think Set Pieces could be key in the Serbia game and for the first time in a long time we had a pretty tall team playing last night.

Great deliveries by Robbo and we were unlucky on a couple occaassions.

A wee bit more work on them in the next 2 games and could be a real weapon agasint serbia

[RabtheBruce]

15 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Spot on, one of  his best games for Scotland if not his best.

He did play quite well last night, in fairness, but he has not done well for us, generally. 22 caps and 0 goals and 0 assists for a centre midfielder says it all.

Edited October 9, 2020 by RabtheBruce

[Third Lanark]

25 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

Good Points.

I think Set Pieces could be key in the Serbia game and for the first time in a long time we had a pretty tall team playing last night.

Great deliveries by Robbo and we were unlucky on a couple occaassions.

A wee bit more work on them in the next 2 games and could be a real weapon agasint serbia

And it could get taller. I think it's interesting that Clarke has called up McCrorie and McGinn, both of whom can play right back or right CB. It's like he realises SOD's defensive limitations and it also gives him the option to bring McTom forward into his rightful position. I doubt he will abandon the back three now and he seems to be preparing for a siege defending against Serbia; a wise move as we don't really have the quality to attack them toe-to-toe.

[Kirk]

17 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Limited options though with covid. Two are keepers, Taylor won't be used unless Robbo gets a knock and even then he'd want to stay out there and you only bring on McClean if you're protecting a 1-0.

Could put Fleck on and move McTominey to CB perhaps.

Sorry just getting back to this, yeah we were limited but needed fresh legs, even if it wasn't quite game changing. Mctominey was playing cb most of the game anyway so wouldn't have been moving him really.

15 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I said this about Robertson the other day. His strength is in attacking and getting crosses in. The defensive side of things he is not so great in my opinion. However, it os overlooked by his quality crossing and assists.

Aye difference is with liverpool he isnt the only one working the wing and he also has central midfielders who know when to cover.

[ErsatzThistle]

 

[Bristolhibby]

2 hours ago, HandofRhod said:

Your right! It is nice that we have options in a previous problem position.

Center Forward aswell we used to struggle but we now have options, Dykes,Mcburnie, Patterson,Shankland, and Griffiths to come back.

Naismith said after the game that he thinks the squad is alot more competative as a whole now, which i agree with. There is now decent competition in most positions.

 

Right back is the one position i think we are still struggling in, for all that I like SOD and think he tries hard and is a okay backup i dont think hes at the level required, neither is Palmer. 

I think KT is our best option out there, Hes a genuine wolrd clas full back,  okay hes left footted but plenty right footers play at left back. KT has the footballing brain and the ability to do a good job there and would do a better job on the pitch there than on the bench if its between him and Robo at left back 

Up steps Paul McGinn into the Right Back position. 
 

J

[Bristolhibby]

37 minutes ago, Kirk said:

Sorry just getting back to this, yeah we were limited but needed fresh legs, even if it wasn't quite game changing. Mctominey was playing cb most of the game anyway so wouldn't have been moving him really.

Aye difference is with liverpool he isnt the only one working the wing and he also has central midfielders who know when to cover.

And also their lad Dasa had a great game, linked up well with Abu Fani (snigger) on our left when he came on. 
 

Robertson was getting nothing out of that flank.

J

[vanderark14]

31 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

 

There unity and passion growing in that team. I just wish we could have been in the stands with them

[killiefaetheferry]

3 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said:

And also their lad Dasa had a great game, linked up well with Abu Fani (snigger) on our left when he came on. 
 

Robertson was getting nothing out of that flank.

J

The right back was excellent but I think they sussed we were poor on the right as well. O'Donnell was rubbish all night. And they knew it. Needs to be his last cap. Ryan Jack for the next game. Tierney for Serbia.

[ErsatzThistle]

41 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

There unity and passion growing in that team. I just wish we could have been in the stands with them

Aye, building a good team spirit is absolutely critical. And it does help.

We had such a good feel about the national team circa 2005-2007 under Smith and McLeish (Mk. I) and it showed on the park with players fighting hard and urging one another on to get the three points.

FFS even Ryan Fraser looked pleased to be there 

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

There unity and passion growing in that team. I just wish we could have been in the stands with them

You might be right, but I'm waiting to see how many more call offs we have before Sunday.

[ErsatzThistle]

Nir Bitton came across as a really poor, graceless loser with his comments to the press today.

GIRFUY.

[vanderark14]

30 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Nir Bitton came across as a really poor, graceless loser with his comments to the press today.

GIRFUY.

 

Perhaps he should question why his side had so much of the ball but did next to nothing with it and scotland created more clear chances

 

[killiefaetheferry]

I've only just watched the Steve Clarke interview after the game. Validates everything I was thinking about his approach. I'm honestly not being a smartarse, but every Killie fan will see the blueprint. He can only build the confidence, the teamwork and the organisation so much. The players need to buy into it, but what a difference in attitude from them last night. Seems to me that the coaching staff have done their bit to create a positive environment - over to the players. The most telling comment was when he said that the players had all done their jobs. That's because they fully understood what their individual jobs were. Not a huge surprise for any Killie supporter. 

[weekevie04]

What did Bitton say? Only thing I can see is from The Record and it was a tough game, etc. 

[Caledonian Craig]

45 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I've only just watched the Steve Clarke interview after the game. Validates everything I was thinking about his approach. I'm honestly not being a smartarse, but every Killie fan will see the blueprint. He can only build the confidence, the teamwork and the organisation so much. The players need to buy into it, but what a difference in attitude from them last night. Seems to me that the coaching staff have done their bit to create a positive environment - over to the players. The most telling comment was when he said that the players had all done their jobs. That's because they fully understood what their individual jobs were. Not a huge surprise for any Killie supporter. 

I think it was a smart move having Gallagher and O'Donnell in there as they are used to the three at the back system which seemed to help with understanding it etc. Gallagher was a plus as he proved he can do a job for us. O'Donnell gives it his all but we need better at that level but he never made any big cock-ups.

[er yir macaroon]

I fully expect wholesale changes for Sunday and then a similar team to the Israel one on Thursday. 

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I fully expect wholesale changes for Sunday and then a similar team to the Israel one on Thursday. 

Its inevitable considering the match went to extra-time last night. I can see as many as 6 or 7 changes.

[ErsatzThistle]

1 hour ago, weekevie04 said:

What did Bitton say? Only thing I can see is from The Record and it was a tough game, etc. 

He said that our players were "scared" of Israel and that they really deserve to be through to the next round instead of us.