Scottish player transfers

[Texas Pete]

26 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I understand that viewpoint, however I still doubt Frasers commitment to the team, but again he’s hardly alone in that 

Sad fact is a lot of people in general in this country either don’t care at all about international football or only have a passing interest. This is probably true of a lot of footballers as well although you’d hope they would care about it once they were involved. 

[Kirk]

 

 

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

A big fan base, but not a big club...read that back ffs

Yes a big fan base in newcastle.......nowhere else gives a fuck about them. They are not a big club at all!!!
They are not considered big around the world. 

[Taylor1996]

Celtic are in the mix for Fraser. Apparently, he's dragging his heels on the Newcastle deal because he's holding out for a bigger club.

I've seen a lot of Fraser over the years. He really isn't that good. He's can't beat people, his dribbling is appalling and people think he's fast because he has little legs, they move like the clappers, this is why people think he's fast.

He had a great season a couple of seasons ago, but i'd attribute that as much to Calum Wilson as much as I would Fraser.

Newcastle have Allan Saint-Maxim. Saint-Maxim will be with a really top club in a season or two. If Fraser thinks he's too good to rub shoulders with Saint-Maxim, I'm afraid he's either crazy or he thinks he's far better than what he is.

 

[mccaughey85]

5 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Celtic are in the mix for Fraser. Apparently, he's dragging his heels on the Newcastle deal because he's holding out for a bigger club.

I've seen a lot of Fraser over the years. He really isn't that good. He's can't beat people, his dribbling is appalling and people think he's fast because he has little legs, they move like the clappers, this is why people think he's fast.

He had a great season a couple of seasons ago, but i'd attribute that as much to Calum Wilson as much as I would Fraser.

Newcastle have Allan Saint-Maxim. Saint-Maxim will be with a really top club in a season or two. If Fraser thinks he's too good to rub shoulders with Saint-Maxim, I'm afraid he's either crazy or he thinks he's far better than what he is.

 

I have watched fraser alot over the years and pretty much disagree on everything you have said. Guy can beat players with ease but often does alot of his best stuff when he cuts into the middle(scoring or assisting) . His dribbling is excellent although he doesnt have alot of tricks for a winger but he's direct and can cross and pick out a pass better than most wingers. If you check online you will find he's one of the fastest players in the epl(his speeds have been clocked)so I dunno where you get the idea that hes not fast. 

I would say it's the opposite regarding callum Wilson. Wilsons success came from great understanding between the two that was imo down largely to frasers excellent play although Wilson deserves credit as well. 

Fraser single handedly tore Liverpool and arsenal apart, we don't have many players who can do that and he would be a massive asset if the guy would turn up to squads and perform to his full capabilities. Sadly this doesn't happen enough. 

I doubt he thinks hes too good to rub shoulders with Saint maxim but he probably hoped for better than Newcastle given the alleged interest from top 6 sides. 

[Texas Pete]

20 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Celtic are in the mix for Fraser. Apparently, he's dragging his heels on the Newcastle deal because he's holding out for a bigger club.

I've seen a lot of Fraser over the years. He really isn't that good. He's can't beat people, his dribbling is appalling and people think he's fast because he has little legs, they move like the clappers, this is why people think he's fast.

He had a great season a couple of seasons ago, but i'd attribute that as much to Calum Wilson as much as I would Fraser.

Newcastle have Allan Saint-Maxim. Saint-Maxim will be with a really top club in a season or two. If Fraser thinks he's too good to rub shoulders with Saint-Maxim, I'm afraid he's either crazy or he thinks he's far better than what he is.

 

Celtic couldn’t afford his wages. Or at least they wouldn’t be willing to pay what Newcastle or Crystal Palace will offer him.

[mccaughey85]

8 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Celtic couldn’t afford his wages. Or at least they wouldn’t be willing to pay what Newcastle or Crystal Palace will offer him.

Celtic should offer 30k or 40k a week and a signing on fee of 1m to fraser. They would be getting a 25+m player who would greatly boost their chances of the 10iar and they would have sellable asset if he wanted to go back to the epl next season. 

[Texas Pete]

6 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Celtic should offer 30k or 40k a week and a signing on fee of 1m to fraser. They would be getting a 25+m player who would greatly boost their chances of the 10iar and they would have sellable asset if he wanted to go back to the epl next season. 

I think that would be more than double their average wage. They may be willing to offer that but Newcastle will be offering a good bit more as well as a chance to stay in the EPL. 

[Taylor1996]

19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I have watched fraser alot over the years and pretty much disagree on everything you have said. Guy can beat players with ease but often does alot of his best stuff when he cuts into the middle(scoring or assisting) . His dribbling is excellent although he doesnt have alot of tricks for a winger but he's direct and can cross and pick out a pass better than most wingers. If you check online you will find he's one of the fastest players in the epl(his speeds have been clocked)so I dunno where you get the idea that hes not fast. 

I would say it's the opposite regarding callum Wilson. Wilsons success came from great understanding between the two that was imo down largely to frasers excellent play although Wilson deserves credit as well. 

Fraser single handedly tore Liverpool and arsenal apart, we don't have many players who can do that and he would be a massive asset if the guy would turn up to squads and perform to his full capabilities. Sadly this doesn't happen enough. 

I doubt he thinks hes too good to rub shoulders with Saint maxim but he probably hoped for better than Newcastle given the alleged interest from top 6 sides. 

This is a good page, comparing Fraser to the Arsenal midfielders, as apparently, Arsenal were looking at him. https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-ryan-frasers-2018-19-stats-to-arsenals-current-midfielders/

There's usually a reason when teams buy players, and why they don't. Fraser is not top 6 EPL level.

In Fraser's most productive season he had an average of 0.6 dribbles per match. That isn't a lot. So, if he can beat players with ease, why doesn't he? Stats show that he doesn't.

He's good at quick give and goes, but no way is he an old fashioned winger. He doesn't run at people. I'm not sure where this "Fraser beats players with ease" theory comes from. I've never seen it.

I'd say that Forrest runs at players more often.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I think that would be more than double their average wage. They may be willing to offer that but Newcastle will be offering a good bit more as well as a chance to stay in the EPL. 

I think celtics top earners get 30k so I was just assuming he would be getting offered that hypothetically. I would imagine Newcastle would be offering alot more maybe 50 or 60k. I was just suggesting maybe celtic could offer fraser a one off signing on fee(1m perhaps) to secure him while not breaking their wage structure. Think I heard somewhere that he would like to move to celtic if a top 6 club wasn't available but that could be a load of rubbish. 

[Texas Pete]

11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think celtics top earners get 30k so I was just assuming he would be getting offered that hypothetically. I would imagine Newcastle would be offering alot more maybe 50 or 60k. I was just suggesting maybe celtic could offer fraser a one off signing on fee(1m perhaps) to secure him while not breaking their wage structure. Think I heard somewhere that he would like to move to celtic if a top 6 club wasn't available but that could be a load of rubbish. 

I would imagine Newcastle will be offering him a healthy signing on fee as well as he’s a free agent. 

I really can’t see him moving back to Scotland at this stage of his career. Especially as Celtic are out of the Champions League. That could’ve tempted him I suppose. 

Stranger things have happened but I’d be pretty surprised if it happened. 

[mccaughey85]

33 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

This is a good page, comparing Fraser to the Arsenal midfielders, as apparently, Arsenal were looking at him. https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-ryan-frasers-2018-19-stats-to-arsenals-current-midfielders/

There's usually a reason when teams buy players, and why they don't. Fraser is not top 6 EPL level.

In Fraser's most productive season he had an average of 0.6 dribbles per match. That isn't a lot. So, if he can beat players with ease, why doesn't he? Stats show that he doesn't.

He's good at quick give and goes, but no way is he an old fashioned winger. He doesn't run at people. I'm not sure where this "Fraser beats players with ease" theory comes from. I've never seen it.

I'd say that Forrest runs at players more often.

He chooses not to dribble alot and prefers to retain possession and pick out passes and as you said he plays alot of give and goes. That doesn't mean he can't beat players which he did alot more in his early years at Aberdeen, Ipswich and Bournemouth. He became a more productive player once he chose to dribble less which is what happens to alot of wingers. I am going by mostly me watching the guy over the years and as I said he can beat players with ease but prefers to play it safe alot and he likes to play one twos or play key passes from deep. 

Tbf I am not saying he would be guaranteed starter for a top 6 side but hes clearly a good epl winger and in terms of Scotland hes an excellent standard of player who we could do with turning up and performing. He's 26 and has only played 11 times for us which is shocking. 

[Taylor1996]

5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

He chooses not to dribble alot and prefers to retain possession and pick out passes and as you said he plays alot of give and goes. That doesn't mean he can't beat players which he did alot more in his early years at Aberdeen, Ipswich and Bournemouth. He became a more productive player once he chose to dribble less which is what happens to alot of wingers. I am going by mostly me watching the guy over the years and as I said he can beat players with ease but prefers to play it safe alot and he likes to play one twos or play key passes from deep. 

Tbf I am not saying he would be guaranteed starter for a top 6 side but hes clearly a good epl winger and in terms of Scotland hes an excellent standard of player who we could do with turning up and performing. He's 26 and has only played 11 times for us which is shocking. 

I wouldn't really say that he chose to stop dribbling. I'd actually say that Eddie Howe told him to stop. But I'll take your word for it, I was Scottish football sparingly, even back then.

He was also the most fouled player in that season. It sounds like a compliment, but it's not. Last season Jack Grealish was the most fouled player, and Graeme Souness said something that I'd never thought of. He said that Grealish was fouled so often because he doesn't see the big picture quickly enough, and that's a terrific point.

It is shocking. I think it's apparent that he doesn't really care about playing for Scotland, which is another reason why the criticism of McBurnie is so unfair... As McBurnie does care, even if he's been caught of camera saying some stupid things.

[aaid]

8 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Celtic should offer 30k or 40k a week and a signing on fee of 1m to fraser. They would be getting a 25+m player who would greatly boost their chances of the 10iar and they would have sellable asset if he wanted to go back to the epl next season. 

He knocked back double that from Bournemouth he’s not going to go to Celtic for that amount. 

[0Neils40yarder]

11 hours ago, Kirk said:

 

 

Yes a big fan base in newcastle.......nowhere else gives a fuck about them. They are not a big club at all!!!
They are not considered big around the world. 

Fuck sake

[Squirrelhumper]

19 hours ago, aaid said:

I used to work for a company whose head office is in Newcastle and so I worked with a load of Geordies.  Lovely down to earth friendly  people but completely deluded about their football team and it’s relative importance in the grand scheme of things.  I never bought the whole “we’d rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0”. Always took that as a get out to cover up theirs general level of shiteness, particularly as aside from that short period under Keegan they’ve never really been an overly attractive side to watch. 

Sounds like the club you support except the lovely down to earth people bit tbf.

[Squirrelhumper]

15 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

A big fan base, but not a big club...read that back ffs

Even if they aren't a big club in terms of worldwide appeal compared to likes of Liverpool, Man Utd etc, they are on a different universe to Bournemouth and for that reason alone it's a step up. Anyone who is trying to insinuate otherwise is at it.

Even then, they clearly have a global brand - even if Kirk insists otherwise.

https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/united-tops-global-brand-growth-list/

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Even if they aren't a big club in terms of worldwide appeal compared to likes of Liverpool, Man Utd etc, they are on a different universe to Bournemouth and for that reason alone it's a step up. Anyone who is trying to insinuate otherwise is at it.

Even then, they clearly have a global brand - even if Kirk insists otherwise.

https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/united-tops-global-brand-growth-list/

Here’s the thing about growth, it doesn’t reflect value or volume.  

If you start from a low base and double your volume you have 100% growth but you still have a low volume. 

If you start from a high base and put on 5% then your growth is low but your volume is high. 

In this context growth is pretty much irrelevant. 

Anyone knows the key global football brands are Barcelona, Real Madrid, the five or six large English clubs, Bayern Munich and Juventus. 

[scotlad]

18 hours ago, aaid said:

I’m not claiming for one second that Newcastle United is the same scale as Bournemouth. 

My point is that - purely on the football side - that there’s not a massive difference between the level of football that someone playing at Bournemouth last season would have been playing at and what he’d be playing at this season if they joined Newcastle. That’s why I view it as pretty much a sideways move

Thats all I’m interested in seeing for Scotland players and frankly it’s all the player should be concerned with as well. 

I’m not saying it’s a bad move if it comes off but it’s a long way from being the great move that some are trying to make out it is. 

When Newcastle were signing top rate players like Ginola and the likes it’s because they were paying over the odds to get people to go there.  Shearer was obviously a local guy but he certainly didn’t go there for buttons.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t one of the best paid players in the country when he was there  

FWIW, from what I know about players, the quality and location of the training ground is much more important than the stadium for the simple reason that they spend a lot more time there.  

To put it in Scottish terms, that's a bit like saying moving from Livingston to Hibs is a sideways move. It might not be as impressive a move as going from Livingston to, say, Celtic, but apart from Jambos on the wind-up, no one would argue that it isn't a step up. 

Moving to Newcastle is nowhere near as impressive these days as moving to Arsenal or Tottenham, and certainly not as impressive as Liverpool, but I'd rather Fraser was a major player in the Newcastle team than a squad player for any of those teams.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, scotlad said:

To put it in Scottish terms, that's a bit like saying moving from Livingston to Hibs is a sideways move. It might not be as impressive a move as going from Livingston to, say, Celtic, but apart from Jambos on the wind-up, no one would argue that it isn't a step up. 

Moving to Newcastle is nowhere near as impressive these days as moving to Arsenal or Tottenham, and certainly not as impressive as Liverpool, but I'd rather Fraser was a major player in the Newcastle team than a squad player for any of those teams.

Exactly the point I made yesterday.

As a Scotland fan I want to see all of our potential players playing regularly at the highest level. Fraser staying at Bournemouth or Fraser moving to Arsenal or Liverpool would not have achieved that for different reasons. Fraser at Newcastle most probably can achieve that and that can only benefit Scotland.

[scotlad]

12 hours ago, Kirk said:

 

 

Yes a big fan base in newcastle.......nowhere else gives a fuck about them. They are not a big club at all!!!
They are not considered big around the world. 

Tens of thousands of people in their own city turn out to watch them every other week, and a healthy portion of them follow the the team away from home.  Does it really matter that they don't shift as many replica shirts in the far east as some other teams?

[er yir macaroon]

The problem with Fraser is the variability in his performance. I remember watching him in an u21 match and thinking he was one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. He can be excellent but when his level drops, he’s a passenger. 

[aaid]

30 minutes ago, scotlad said:

To put it in Scottish terms, that's a bit like saying moving from Livingston to Hibs is a sideways move. It might not be as impressive a move as going from Livingston to, say, Celtic, but apart from Jambos on the wind-up, no one would argue that it isn't a step up. 

Moving to Newcastle is nowhere near as impressive these days as moving to Arsenal or Tottenham, and certainly not as impressive as Liverpool, but I'd rather Fraser was a major player in the Newcastle team than a squad player for any of those teams.

Playing devils advocate because I can’t be arsed looking up relative performance over the last few years but exactly why should Hibs be considered a step up over Livingston. 

[daviebee]

3 hours ago, scotlad said:

To put it in Scottish terms, that's a bit like saying moving from Livingston to Hibs is a sideways move. It might not be as impressive a move as going from Livingston to, say, Celtic, but apart from Jambos on the wind-up, no one would argue that it isn't a step up. 

Moving to Newcastle is nowhere near as impressive these days as moving to Arsenal or Tottenham, and certainly not as impressive as Liverpool, but I'd rather Fraser was a major player in the Newcastle team than a squad player for any of those teams.

Sadly, it makes fck all difference to us given his attitude and commitment. He's had everything but the fkin millennium bug to keep him off Scotland duty.

[Kirk]

4 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Even if they aren't a big club in terms of worldwide appeal compared to likes of Liverpool, Man Utd etc, they are on a different universe to Bournemouth and for that reason alone it's a step up. Anyone who is trying to insinuate otherwise is at it.

Even then, they clearly have a global brand - even if Kirk insists otherwise.

https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/united-tops-global-brand-growth-list/

My mistake, this proves that Newcastle are in fact the biggest club in the world......

[mrniaboc]

Here, who do you guys reckon is the biggest club: Newcastle or Bournemouth?