Europe 2022/23

[vanderark14]

9 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont think Hearts (or any repetitve 3rd place team) would close the gap to the Old Firm in terms of head to head. My point being that say Hearts currently get beat 2 nil everytime they play the Old Firm. With both OF clubs getting Champs League football that might go to 3 or 4 nil over next few years so on one hand the gap widens.

On the other though Hearts reguarly drop points to non OF teams and therefore the gap in the league table is large. However with 4 years of consecutive group stage money Hearts could reduce the number of times they drop points to Non OF teams so in turn reduce the points gap to the OF even if in the head to head games they get beat by more goals.

Effectively having a top 2 then clrar 3rd rather than just having a top 2 like we have had for 30 years.

Just to add to this, the task of maintaining 3rd is a huge one. Both Aberdeen and Hearts have had group stage football in the past but failed to maintain a grip on 3rd, aberdeen made millions in pre-season..............probably more than Hearts will win from the Conference League Groups or possibly the EL groups if they overcome Zurich but the jury is out on Aberdeen.

The point is the £3m a team makes from EL or ECL group football isn't difficult to overcome compared to that of teams in CL football.

The CL has destroyed domestic comps and is still eating away at some competitions. The exception being the EPL which is flooded with money.

on a side note does anyone know why Ajax are in pot one this season? Ahead of Liverpool who have won it and were in the final recently. the whole set up baffles me

[thplinth]

40 million? Is that what getting to the next stage is worth. That is a lot for Scottish football.

What a laugh that FIFA/UEFA etc have financial fair play rules and then they effectively completely  distort and financially dope the Scottish domestic league by giving an enormous sum of money (dwarfing the entire domestic leagues TV money) to the two clubs that were already financially much stronger than the other clubs.

I guess they are happy to pump up these clubs for when they try to launch the European super league shite again. Both CFC and RFC would stab Scottish football in the face in a nanosecond to sign up to that and I am sure one day will do exactly that. 

The Saudi money can corrupt anything given time... look at what they are doing to Golf. The money behind the euro league shite is immense as well. If they pull that heist off it will essentially ruin every domestic league, asset strip them. It was a real eye opener seeing which of the big clubs were all up for it... selling out the entire history of their club, their fans and their domestic leagues for pure greed and in a heartbeat as well. 

Anyhoo great result for Rangers. Impressive. I've said it before but I rate GVB as a manager from what I have seen so far. Be interesting to see how they do in the league this year... got 40 million burning a hole in their pocket now as well. (For example how many times is that Aberdeen's or Heart's entire annual turnover?)

Edited August 25, 2022 by thplinth

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, thplinth said:

40 million? Is that what getting to the next stage is worth. That is a lot for Scottish football.

What a laugh that FIFA/UEFA etc have financial fair play rules and then they effectively completely  distort and financially dope the Scottish domestic league by giving an enormous sum of money (dwarfing the entire domestic leagues TV money) to the two clubs that were already financially much stronger than the other clubs.

I guess they are happy to pump up these clubs for when they try to launch the European super league shite again. Both CFC and RFC would stab Scottish football in the face in a nanosecond to sign up to that and I am sure one day will do exactly that. 

The Saudi money can corrupt anything given time... look at what they are doing to Golf. The money behind the euro league shite is immense as well. If they pull that heist off it will essentially ruin every domestic league, asset strip them. It was a real eye opener seeing which of the big clubs were all up for it... selling out the entire history of their club, their fans and their domestic leagues for pure greed and in a heartbeat as well. 

Anyhoo great result for Rangers. Impressive. I've said it before but I rate GVB as a manager from what I have seen so far. Be interesting to see how they do in the league this year... got 40 million burning a whole in their pocket now as well. (For example how many times is that Aberdeen's or Heart's entire annual turnover?)

at least 4 times the entire turnover of both clubs

[Diamond Scot]

28 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Just to add to this, the task of maintaining 3rd is a huge one. Both Aberdeen and Hearts have had group stage football in the past but failed to maintain a grip on 3rd, aberdeen made millions in pre-season..............probably more than Hearts will win from the Conference League Groups or possibly the EL groups if they overcome Zurich but the jury is out on Aberdeen.

The point is the £3m a team makes from EL or ECL group football isn't difficult to overcome compared to that of teams in CL football.

The CL has destroyed domestic comps and is still eating away at some competitions. The exception being the EPL which is flooded with money.

on a side note does anyone know why Ajax are in pot one this season? Ahead of Liverpool who have won it and were in the final recently. the whole set up baffles me

Agreed, its not easy but it is an opportunity. Imo Aberdeen totally wasted an opportunity when Ranger were in the lower leagues. They seemed content to just keep the seat warm until Rangers returned. Didnt change the voting structure and never seemed to make any longer term strides. I understand alot of that will have been financial.

Looking at Hearts they will make around half a million per home game in Europe this season as a bear minimum so thats 2 million to start. Then they have the TV money and money per point. Im sure I read that they are estimated to make around 6 million from the Europa and around 4.5 from conference.

So if you took that over 4 years thats around 20 million more than the rest of the league. Thats a huge advantage to try and open a gap. The main difficulty comes with balancing actually playing in Europe with still picking up wins in the league.

However of it can be done then having guarenteed group football is huge compared to just being in the qualifiers as it allows the financial outlay early doors. Ie going out and getting Forrest and Shankland. Bringing in 2 or 3 better players on actual contracts per year makes it alot easier to build going forward.

[slasher]

PSV are a decent side but they bottled it last night, no question. A good number of their players were a bag of nerves. Rangers were greatly helped by their European experience over the last 3 years, they just weren’t fazed by the occasion at all. 
As regards whether or not it’s good for Scottish football I think it’s apparent that fans of other clubs think not and for obvious reasons.

Buzzing for the draw later, hopefully we get Real Madrid and avoid the English sides and I’ll be happy 👍

Edited August 25, 2022 by slasher

[vanderark14]

57 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Agreed, its not easy but it is an opportunity. Imo Aberdeen totally wasted an opportunity when Ranger were in the lower leagues. They seemed content to just keep the seat warm until Rangers returned. Didnt change the voting structure and never seemed to make any longer term strides. I understand alot of that will have been financial.

Looking at Hearts they will make around half a million per home game in Europe this season as a bear minimum so thats 2 million to start. Then they have the TV money and money per point. Im sure I read that they are estimated to make around 6 million from the Europa and around 4.5 from conference.

So if you took that over 4 years thats around 20 million more than the rest of the league. Thats a huge advantage to try and open a gap. The main difficulty comes with balancing actually playing in Europe with still picking up wins in the league.

However of it can be done then having guarenteed group football is huge compared to just being in the qualifiers as it allows the financial outlay early doors. Ie going out and getting Forrest and Shankland. Bringing in 2 or 3 better players on actual contracts per year makes it alot easier to build going forward.

I agree re Aberdeen and the voting structure, Milne should have been flung into the north seas after that vote. I also agree Aberdeen should have won more than one trophy during Rangers years in the wilderness. The problem was keeping a team together, at the time Hayes was our best player and he moved to Celtic. I donlt think winning the league was as realistic as people thought but another cup absolutely was IMO

It wilol be interesting to see if hearts do manage their new found money in the correct way, this is a huge season for them. If they consolidate 3rd, the rest could be in trouble. Aberdeen should be aiming for the same

If Hearts, Aberdeen or any other club do some how consolidate 3rd it strangles competition even further.

[vanderark14]

43 minutes ago, slasher said:

PSV are a decent side but they bottled it last night, no question. A good number of their players were a bag of nerves. Rangers were greatly helped by their European experience over the last 3 years, they just weren’t fazed by the occasion at all. 
As regards whether or not it’s good for Scottish football I think it’s apparent that fans of other clubs think not and for obvious reasons.

Buzzing for the draw later, hopefully we get Real Madrid and avoid the English sides and I’ll be happy 👍

From a neutral point of view I want both Rangers and Celtic to get english teams. It will be more interesting to me, i'd be torn between wanting the OF to get royally humped and wanting the OF to give those EPL cunts a bloody nose

[Diamond Scot]

48 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I agree re Aberdeen and the voting structure, Milne should have been flung into the north seas after that vote. I also agree Aberdeen should have won more than one trophy during Rangers years in the wilderness. The problem was keeping a team together, at the time Hayes was our best player and he moved to Celtic. I donlt think winning the league was as realistic as people thought but another cup absolutely was IMO

It wilol be interesting to see if hearts do manage their new found money in the correct way, this is a huge season for them. If they consolidate 3rd, the rest could be in trouble. Aberdeen should be aiming for the same

If Hearts, Aberdeen or any other club do some how consolidate 3rd it strangles competition even further.

Totally agree and maybe a conversation for another thread.

I dont neccesarily think Aberdeen should have won more trophys and defo dont think they should have won the league but they should have been able to get themselves into a position where there was a gap between them and the rest.

Thats why im saying Euro group stage football could be key as a club gets from more money from that than finishing 2nd in Scotland at the time.

I really hope Hearts do manage to finish 3rd again and build properly. A really strong 3rd team in Scotland would be a good thing imo (would at least be different from the last 30 years). Id love Aberdeen to get in on the act and be a really strong 4th team aswell. Thought it might happen with the new stadium but momentum seems to have been lost on that front.

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

From a neutral point of view I want both Rangers and Celtic to get english teams. It will be more interesting to me, i'd be torn between wanting the OF to get royally humped and wanting the OF to give those EPL cunts a bloody nose

would like to see a Battle of Britain  game. I tend to support the English teams in Europe when we are inevitably knocked out early.

[Malcolm]

19 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Totally agree and maybe a conversation for another thread.

I dont neccesarily think Aberdeen should have won more trophys and defo dont think they should have won the league but they should have been able to get themselves into a position where there was a gap between them and the rest.

Thats why im saying Euro group stage football could be key as a club gets from more money from that than finishing 2nd in Scotland at the time.

I really hope Hearts do manage to finish 3rd again and build properly. A really strong 3rd team in Scotland would be a good thing imo (would at least be different from the last 30 years). Id love Aberdeen to get in on the act and be a really strong 4th team aswell. Thought it might happen with the new stadium but momentum seems to have been lost on that front.

I’m not sure Aberdeen show any signs of being the fourth biggest club in Scotland. They should have stuck with mcinnes, he had a really decent run.

[aaid]

I don’t understand why some people seem to find the need to “support” a team if their team either gets knocked out of a competition or aren’t in it in the first place. 

[mr mojo risin]

At least sharing 1st & 2nd for eternity you're guaranteed a pretty even split of titles. Not sure what finishing clear in 3rd but well behind 2nd for eternity would give you?

[vanderark14]

11 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

I’m not sure Aberdeen show any signs of being the fourth biggest club in Scotland. They should have stuck with mcinnes, he had a really decent run.

 he won one trophy and that was with the absence of Ranger or having a weaker rangers in the league. On one thread you are going on about inferior mentality............well Mcinnes had an inferior mentality. Where aberdeen failed wasn't getting rid of Mcinnes, his time was up. They failed in the appointment after his sacking. The Jury is out on Goodwin

 

18 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

would like to see a Battle of Britain  game. I tend to support the English teams in Europe when we are inevitably knocked out early.

I am shocked that you support english sides🤣

 

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

I don’t understand why some people seem to find the need to “support” a team if their team either gets knocked out of a competition or aren’t in it in the first place. 

agreed

[EddardStark]

We clearly own PSV in Europe 

 

 

Champions League
1999/2000	Preliminary Gr. F	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	4:1 (2:1)
1999/2000	Preliminary Gr. F	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	0:1 (0:0)
1978/1979	Round of 16	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	2:3 (1:0)
1978/1979	Round of 16	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	0:0 (0:0)

Champions League Qual.
2022/2023	Play-offs	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	0:1 (0:0)
2022/2023	Play-offs	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	2:2 (1:1)

 

[glasgow jock]

13 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

We clearly own PSV in Europe 

 

 

Champions League
1999/2000	Preliminary Gr. F	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	4:1 (2:1)
1999/2000	Preliminary Gr. F	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	0:1 (0:0)
1978/1979	Round of 16	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	2:3 (1:0)
1978/1979	Round of 16	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	0:0 (0:0)

Champions League Qual.
2022/2023	Play-offs	PSV Eindhoven	-	Rangers FC	0:1 (0:0)
2022/2023	Play-offs	Rangers FC	-	PSV Eindhoven	2:2 (1:1)

 

Indeed !!

Eindhoven always remind me of my auld man (RIP da)  " One Bobby Russel, Theirs Only One Bobby Russell" always after a wee drink, then told to shut up by my Celtic supporting Mum 🤣

[ThistleWhistle]

This could strengthen the league if some of that money was spent internally on Scottish based players and then spent again by the selling clubs buying replacements (and improving youth facilities).  It's how the Dutch model seems to operate and when Ajax/ PSV flog their stars they seem to buy a youngster off a diddy club quite regularly which seems to keep the thing going. 

Alternatively it could weaken it further if spend next to fuck all on domestic talent whilst at the same time keeping out some promising youth from the first team in the process.  

[amsterdam scot]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

on a side note does anyone know why Ajax are in pot one this season? Ahead of Liverpool who have won it and were in the final recently. the whole set up baffles me

Pot 1 is made up of the prior years winners, the winner of the prior year Europa League and the Champions of the top 6 ranked nations. As Real Madrid were Champions League and national title winners, then the Champions of the 7th ranked nation, the Netherlands, and therefore Ajax were put into pot 1.

But the point you made about about the CL destroying domestic league competitions is so true. Although I have been an Ajax season ticket holder for nearly 20 years now, I find the gap between Ajax and the other teams in the league barring PSV has become so large it's unbelievable and affects enjoyment of watching games. Through a combination of CL money, a very very smart marketing department and great transfer policy, Ajax's turnover is now bigger than PSV and Feyenoord combined and bigger than the 3rd placed teams and every other club below them combined.

That's not healthy for any league

[vanderark14]

59 minutes ago, amsterdam scot said:

Pot 1 is made up of the prior years winners, the winner of the prior year Europa League and the Champions of the top 6 ranked nations. As Real Madrid were Champions League and national title winners, then the Champions of the 7th ranked nation, the Netherlands, and therefore Ajax were put into pot 1.

But the point you made about about the CL destroying domestic league competitions is so true. Although I have been an Ajax season ticket holder for nearly 20 years now, I find the gap between Ajax and the other teams in the league barring PSV has become so large it's unbelievable and affects enjoyment of watching games. Through a combination of CL money, a very very smart marketing department and great transfer policy, Ajax's turnover is now bigger than PSV and Feyenoord combined and bigger than the 3rd placed teams and every other club below them combined.

That's not healthy for any league

Thansk for clarifying. Makes sense considering the whole tournament is designed to keep 6 nations at the top of the tree.

 

[vanderark14]

Hearts up next, a home tie in which I assume is a sell out. Should be a decent atmosphere. I see some of their young fans are copying their brothers in Glasgow by setting off fireworks at the Zurich team hotel

[EddardStark]

23 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Hearts up next, a home tie in which I assume is a sell out. Should be a decent atmosphere. I see some of their young fans are copying their brothers in Glasgow by setting off fireworks at the Zurich team hotel

The Rangers bus was attacked by PSV fans on its journey in yesterday. So it must be a global thing 

[EddardStark]

Good luck to Hearts btw. Would love to see them through to the EL Group stage. 

[dj mick]

19 hours ago, silverbear said:

Oh I really hope they did  🤣

It did indeed, However I cashed out for a small loss as Psv where a bit shitter than expected.

[vanderark14]

switched off the draw, what a load of nonsense.

 I will check the tamb for the draw when its done 🤣

[Fairbairn]

Ajax, Liverpool, Napoli, RANGERS

Real Madrid, Leipzig, Shakthar, CELTIC

 

Decebt draw for both team. One of the weaker top seeds for Rangers and a glamour Battle of Britain with Liverpool. Celtic get the biggest glamour tie of the all and must fancy their chances of getting out of that group. 

[exile]

 

Hadn't seem this hype before....

Edited August 25, 2022 by exile