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As a side note given what's been posted previously I wanted everyone to know that we buried my mum today. There were just four of us at the cemetery, practising social distancing. It was surreal and u

I share your pain mate. 5am this morning I lost my father in law to this awful disease. Fought like a lion to try and hang on but it was a battle he couldn't win. You have my deepest sympathy mate. St

Not as strange as your tedious boring bastard routine 

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17 hours ago, Och Aye said:

My 16 year old neice got the blue envelope and we still don't know why. Told just to keep the appointment when her mum enquired as no health issues. Went on a day it was AstraZeneca vaccine was told no no you can't have that one at your age. Join the queue at the bottom isle for Pfizer vaccination. This was 3 weeks ago. 

Is she back yet? Must’ve been some queue if not....

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32 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Is she back yet? Must’ve been some queue if not....

:lol:

Died of starvation waiting in the queue. Another one of the potential side effects of going for the vaccine. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

No we are not. Nothing like it. If you believe that you are being fed bullshit.

I'm just taking it directly from the study quoted by the government yesterday to justify their change in policy. The same study in the BBC yesterday and linked above. 

Where you would expect 0.8 ICU admissions from covid per 100,000 of unvaccinated 20-30yo Vs 1.1 admissions for serious vaccine side effects. That is to say the AZ vaccine is more dangerous to young people than covid is, at current infection rates. 

Study could be wrong, but a good chance it is correct as well, do you not think? I mean the risk of covid is so low, it's hard for it not to be right. 

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30 minutes ago, kumnio said:

What’s the story with Clackmannanshire? The figures there are ridiculous 😳

I know - there must be some outbreak - is there a prison there?

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13 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Any vaccine (or any other medicine) would be withdrawn long before it got to that stage. 

I agree with you on vaccine passports. I am totally against them for anything other than foreign travel. And even that should be for essential purposes only, IMO.

It should be required this year at least for holidays if they stupidly allow them in the first place. There should be few exceptions until such time as prevalence is significantly reduced across the works and we understand the impact of vaccines. Foreign travel is a massive risk. I just want our day to day life back. I simply don't get this desire to risk it for a week in Spain

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6 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I'm just taking it directly from the study quoted by the government yesterday to justify their change in policy. The same study in the BBC yesterday and linked above. 

Where you would expect 0.8 ICU admissions from covid per 100,000 of unvaccinated 20-30yo Vs 1.1 admissions for serious vaccine side effects. That is to say the AZ vaccine is more dangerous to young people than covid is, at current infection rates. 

Study could be wrong, but a good chance it is correct as well, do you not think? I mean the risk of covid is so low, it's hard for it not to be right. 

The issue is that as the number of active infections increase, it alters the risk profile to the point that the vaccine is less risk than Covid. This is in the low/medium/high exposure risks that they modelled. 
 

It’s logical that if you have a sizeable % of people not vaccinated then you risk having more active infections in the population and that then increases the risk profile. 

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17 hours ago, Orraloon said:

:lol:

Died of starvation waiting in the queue. Another one of the potential side effects of going for the vaccine. :lol:

😄😄

We're taught to forage from an early age in Motherwell. She'll be fine. 

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1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

A cautionary tale from Chile on the difficult balancing act that easing lockdown is...

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/mar/28/chile-coronavirus-lockdowns-vaccination-success

 

 

"More than 6 million people have received at least one dose of either the Chinese Sinovac or US Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, and 3.2 million have had both jabs."
 

 

I'd like to see the breakdown of the jag type. I heard/read somewhere that they've mostly used the Chinese vaccine, which (unlike its rivals) supposedly isn't effective against the variants.

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11 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

The issue is that as the number of active infections increase, it alters the risk profile to the point that the vaccine is less risk than Covid. This is in the low/medium/high exposure risks that they modelled. 
 

It’s logical that if you have a sizeable % of people not vaccinated then you risk having more active infections in the population and that then increases the risk profile. 

I understand that, but it doesn't refute the point I made. Which is at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it. Which is not what young people would expect to be true given the narrative. 

Also active infections are going down as a greater proportion of the population get vaccinated, not up. So the reverse of your point is also true - that where active infections reduce (as they are) you observe greater excess deaths in the vaccinated population Vs unvaccinated. 

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5 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I understand that, but it doesn't refute the point I made. Which is at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it. Which is not what young people would expect to be true given the narrative. 

Also active infections are going down as a greater proportion of the population get vaccinated, not up. So the reverse of your point is also true - that where active infections reduce (as they are) you observe greater excess deaths in the vaccinated population Vs unvaccinated. 

Can you post a link to where you are getting this from please? You seem to be very confident that that bit is correct, so you may have read something that I haven't. If I think what you have read isn't correct I'll try to explain why.

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On 4/8/2021 at 3:14 PM, Orraloon said:

:lol:

Died of starvation waiting in the queue. Another one of the potential side effects of going for the vaccine. :lol:

😅 more folk died of hunger this year ( 3,000,000 + ) than of covid in total ( <3,000,000 )lol

still, it is all about saving lives , innit. 

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48 minutes ago, Shaundy said:

😅 more folk died of hunger this year ( 3,000,000 + ) than of covid in total ( <3,000,000 )lol

still, it is all about saving lives , innit. 

It's about saving certain lives.

Covid affects everyone as it's communicable, hunger isn't. Therefore it makes folk with the agency to do something about it do something about it.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Can you post a link to where you are getting this from please? You seem to be very confident that that bit is correct, so you may have read something that I haven't. If I think what you have read isn't correct I'll try to explain why.

Posted above. 

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That is a graph about ICU prevention every 16 weeks against serious harm.

You're claiming "Which is at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it."

It's not evidencing what you think it is.

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8 minutes ago, phart said:

That is a graph about ICU prevention every 16 weeks against serious harm.

You're claiming "Which is at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it."

It's not evidencing what you think it is.

I know what it is. I'm assuming the researchers have chosen 16weeks as the appropriate time frame over which to accrue benefits given the uncertainty over how long the vaccine grants immunity. 

I think the research shows that after 16 weeks more people will be in ICU as a result of taking the vaccine than if they hadn't bothered. I believe the researchers have used this measure as a proxy for harm (they certainly say that). 

I don't think it is a leap to say more people in ICU = more deaths. So I will say it again - at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it.

A study over a longer period may come to a different conclusion. But that remains to be seen. But even if it does it will be pretty marginal, given the risk of covid to under 30s is immaterial. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I know what it is. I'm assuming the researchers have chosen 16weeks as the appropriate time frame over which to accrue benefits given the uncertainty over how long the vaccine grants immunity. 

I think the research shows that after 16 weeks more people will be in ICU as a result of taking the vaccine than if they hadn't bothered. I believe the researchers have used this measure as a proxy for harm (they certainly say that). 

I don't think it is a leap to say more people in ICU = more deaths. So I will say it again - at current infection rates more young people would be killed by the AZ vaccine than protected by it.

A study over a longer period may come to a different conclusion. But that remains to be seen. But even if it does it will be pretty marginal, given the risk of covid to under 30s is immaterial. 

 

I have no idea if what you're saying is true, what I know is you've presented no evidence that what you're saying is true.

That's pretty much my position, regardless of how many times you repeat it.

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