Coronavirus

[AlfieMoon]

14 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

You couldn't make this shit up 

I spotted that yesterday. They are taking the piss with that one aren’t they?! 😂

 

 

[Toepoke]

Brazil is absolutely f***ed. Nearly 4000 deaths yesterday!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56581131

 

[phart]

More evidence coming in for AZ vaccine having a causal effect in rare clotting disorders which is resulting in death in a small number of people.

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, phart said:

More evidence coming in for AZ vaccine having a causal effect in rare clotting disorders which is resulting in death in a small number of people.

Yeah in the UK now I worry about the impact off this on take up when we move to the under 50's. We have pretty much left ourselves dependent on AZ in the short term at least. We have ordered significantly more AZ probably done so to maximise the financial benefit fo the Tory Party's chums and so we could trumpet the UK!

I know the risks remain low but for younger people this may be enough to put them off and this could risk the effectiveness of the entire programme. 

I have been the least confident i n the AZ vaccine from the start and I would have most definitely opted for Pfizer if I had had the choice. AZ has been too wrapped up in red white and blue and so I don't trust how the government respond in its use on a clinical level. Seems suspicious to me that it has taken us so long to announce cases given we were first to start using it and other countries have identified this issue before us having administered many fewer doses

[phart]

10 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Yeah in the UK now I worry about the impact off this on take up when we move to the under 50's. We have pretty much left ourselves dependent on AZ in the short term at least. We have ordered significantly more AZ probably done so to maximise the financial benefit fo the Tory Party's chums and so we could trumpet the UK!

I know the risks remain low but for younger people this may be enough to put them off and this could risk the effectiveness of the entire programme. 

I have been the least confident i n the AZ vaccine from the start and I would have most definitely opted for Pfizer if I had had the choice. AZ has been too wrapped up in red white and blue and so I don't trust how the government respond in its use on a clinical level. Seems suspicious to me that it has taken us so long to announce cases given we were first to start using it and other countries have identified this issue before us having administered many fewer doses

I've had my AZ first dose and i'm 41. Had it 4 weeks ago, I occasionally worry a bit. Will still get my 2nd dose no problem as the risk is miniscule compared to covid. It's baked into our psychology to worry about risks though.

I'm sick fed up to my back teeth of all the "politicking" that goes on around all this stuff, the science community has shown itself to be as bad as any other demographic in that regard as well.

[Lamia]

12 minutes ago, phart said:

I've had my AZ first dose and i'm 41. Had it 4 weeks ago, I occasionally worry a bit. Will still get my 2nd dose no problem as the risk is miniscule compared to covid. It's baked into our psychology to worry about risks though.

I'm sick fed up to my back teeth of all the "politicking" that goes on around all this stuff, the science community has shown itself to be as bad as any other demographic in that regard as well.

I was really meaning the younger age group with no underlying health conditions who may see their risk of Covid as low. I had my AZ last Tuesday and was quite anxious but had nothing except a sore arm. I can't see the UK stopping its use. the UK Gov has far too much to lose doing that even if there was a link and even if it was more than it seems. I think the repoutational damage actual weighs higher in some quarters which is the thing that concerns me.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Lamia said:

I was really meaning the younger age group with no underlying health conditions who may see their risk of Covid as low. I had my AZ last Tuesday and was quite anxious but had nothing except a sore arm. I can't see the UK stopping its use. the UK Gov has far too much to lose doing that even if there was a link and even if it was more than it seems. I think the repoutational damage actual weighs higher in some quarters which is the thing that concerns me.

I not concerned about uptake levels yet. If the numbers we are being told are correct then the uptake in Scotland is over 95% so far. And half the adult population have been done (they have agreed to have the first dose anyway). It would probably need to dip drastically in the rest of the population to threaten the effect on herd immunity. 

I'm more concerned about the availability of the vaccines and how often we need to be boosted.

[tartandon]

3 hours ago, Lamia said:

Yeah in the UK now I worry about the impact off this on take up when we move to the under 50's. We have pretty much left ourselves dependent on AZ in the short term at least. We have ordered significantly more AZ probably done so to maximise the financial benefit fo the Tory Party's chums and so we could trumpet the UK!

I know the risks remain low but for younger people this may be enough to put them off and this could risk the effectiveness of the entire programme. 

I have been the least confident i n the AZ vaccine from the start and I would have most definitely opted for Pfizer if I had had the choice. AZ has been too wrapped up in red white and blue and so I don't trust how the government respond in its use on a clinical level. Seems suspicious to me that it has taken us so long to announce cases given we were first to start using it and other countries have identified this issue before us having administered many fewer doses

The persistent blunders from AZ when they release press releases have not helped either. They keep exaggerating the efficacy of their vaccine and then have to issue clarifications.

I'm glad I received the Pfizer vaccine.

[biffer]

14 hours ago, phart said:

More evidence coming in for AZ vaccine having a causal effect in rare clotting disorders which is resulting in death in a small number of people.

Umm, no. 
 

no evidence presented that there’s a causal effect. 

[phart]

55 minutes ago, biffer said:

Umm, no. 
 

no evidence presented that there’s a causal effect. 

I missed the "could" out, sorry that's sloppy cheers for correcting me . I was quoting Prof David Werring, turns out incorrectly.

[biffer]

55 minutes ago, phart said:

I missed the "could" out, sorry that's sloppy cheers for correcting me . I was quoting Prof David Werring, turns out incorrectly.

This kind of clotting is hugely under researched. Stats from a couple of years ago suggest anywhere between 2 and 18 per million people each year. 20 people per million under 45 have a stroke every year. The numbers being quoted are frankly not much different from noise on a statistical basis. 

[Lamia]

6 hours ago, biffer said:

This kind of clotting is hugely under researched. Stats from a couple of years ago suggest anywhere between 2 and 18 per million people each year. 20 people per million under 45 have a stroke every year. The numbers being quoted are frankly not much different from noise on a statistical basis. 

But oddly no cases after the Pfizer one!

[Toepoke]

I'm not normally one to peddle conspiracy theories but could the fact the AZ vaccine doses are so cheap mean that "big pharma" would rather see some negative stories to encourage purchases of more expensive vaccines?

 

[phart]

5 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

I'm not normally one to peddle conspiracy theories but could the fact the AZ vaccine doses are so cheap mean that "big pharma" would rather see some negative stories to encourage purchases of more expensive vaccines?

 

It's certainly plausible. It's a cuthroat market.

[biffer]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

I'm not normally one to peddle conspiracy theories but could the fact the AZ vaccine doses are so cheap mean that "big pharma" would rather see some negative stories to encourage purchases of more expensive vaccines?

 

That would explain why the US hasn’t approved it yet.

[biffer]

4 hours ago, Lamia said:

But oddly no cases after the Pfizer one!

Yes there are.

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91813

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

I'm not normally one to peddle conspiracy theories but could the fact the AZ vaccine doses are so cheap mean that "big pharma" would rather see some negative stories to encourage purchases of more expensive vaccines?

 

AZ is "Big Pharma". Not quite big enough to make the top ten but still big enough.

I don't think any of the other big pharma companies would risk their reputation by getting involved in trying to smear another big pharma, by spreading malicious gossip, especially when it's about such a high profile medicine, that almost everybody on the planet knows about. They are quite happy to get up to loads of other dodgy stuff but directly targeting one of their own would be a step too far for most of them, IMO.

More likely to somebody else with an agenda like trying to get themselves noticed or there are scientists who genuinely think that there could be a causal link but just haven't managed to show it yet.

Part of it could be down to bad marketing and looking like they aren't fully in control. I'm not sure the relationship between AZ and the Oxford folk is as good as it could be.

 

[AlfieMoon]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, Lamia said:

I was really meaning the younger age group with no underlying health conditions who may see their risk of Covid as low. I had my AZ last Tuesday and was quite anxious but had nothing except a sore arm. I can't see the UK stopping its use. the UK Gov has far too much to lose doing that even if there was a link and even if it was more than it seems. I think the repoutational damage actual weighs higher in some quarters which is the thing that concerns me.

I’m not sure how much of a drop off there will be. Worth noting that even in 30-39 age group there’s already a 23% vaccination rate. 
 

I think some of the media fear that you get generations won’t go for it is exaggerated. There’s bound to be some drop off but I think overall there is good appetite for the vaccine. 

[phart]

3 hours ago, biffer said:

Yes there are.

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91813

That doesn't state any cases of CVST for pfizier it states ITP.

 

[biffer]

5 minutes ago, phart said:

That doesn't state any cases of CVST for pfizier it states ITP.

 

Another clotting condition. I've not seen any cases of ITP linked to AZ, have you? 

 

[phart]

3 minutes ago, biffer said:

Another clotting condition. I've not seen any cases of ITP linked to AZ, have you? 

 

I've not seen anything at all, i'm just parrotting what the folk who have worked on it have said (badly in that one case)

What have you seen?

[biffer]

1 hour ago, phart said:

I've not seen anything at all, i'm just parrotting what the folk who have worked on it have said (badly in that one case)

What have you seen?

Not seen any ITP suggested with AZ. Most people won't care either way what the type of clot is, that's the point. I doubt very much anyone would say they don't want to risk CVST, but they're happy with risk of ITP. 

[phart]

14 minutes ago, biffer said:

Not seen any ITP suggested with AZ. Most people won't care either way what the type of clot is, that's the point. I doubt very much anyone would say they don't want to risk CVST, but they're happy with risk of ITP. 

Yeah but it's not their seriousness that's the issue it's why they're manifesting. They probably have different pathology.

[biffer]

38 minutes ago, phart said:

Yeah but it's not their seriousness that's the issue it's why they're manifesting. They probably have different pathology.

And that pathology could be nothing to do with either vaccine. 

[phart]