Morrisandmoo - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content


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  1. I'm just on the wind-up It's easing my bitterness from years of seeing Aberdeen walk away from Rugby Park with 3pts.
  2. Absolutely buzzing for Arbroath away on a Friday night for a top of the table clash! A sentence that would confuse a past version of myself....but clearly I've found my level has a football fan. Championship is where it's at. Shocked to see Aberdeen fans are dissatisfied with their manager (unusual). Pleasing to think of McKinnes basking in the knowledge that he was too good for they cunts all along. Or maybe Aberdeen were always destined to struggle without the easy points vs Killie....who knows? Also well done Motherwell and Livi.
  3. Cheers @phart Also agree that there are diminishing returns in obsessing about vaccinating the final 5% ahead of other opportunities (at this stage anyway).
  4. Plus you can promote better and more impact statistics like: "In people who received their second dose at least 21 days before their date of death, 0.8% of all deaths involved COVID-19. Over one-third (37.4%) of all deaths in unvaccinated people involved COVID-19."
  5. I could be missing something and this is only indirectly related. But I am worried about the Government's approach to communicating with people and it's (sometime) one-sided use of statistics. For example, I saw something along the lines of >60% of those in hospital with covid who have not been vaccinated are under 30 or 45 (or something to that effect) on the government's facebook. Which will absolutely be true. But it's true because 99% of every >45 year olds are vaccinated, so the statistic is meaningless really. What the government want you to think (if you are a 30 YO) is shit...I better get vaccinated...there is a serious risk of me ending up in hospital if not. A well-intentioned endeavour. But what actually happens is folk google death rates by age (for example) and see that the majority of deaths are in fact in vaccinated >45 YOs. Some of those people conclude (or find reason to reinforce their existing belief) that the government is trying to pull the wool over people's eyes or worse think it's the vaccine that is killing people! Because well... look at all these vaccinated people dying!! And the government aren' telling us that....they are lying to us!!!!!! The facebook comments in response to the government's statistic confirmed as much. We need to take counsel from that Danish study and be much more transparent in our official communications, facing into the complexity that exists and risk of mis-construction when you tell people the whole story. We can tell young people that the risk from covid to them is very small and they shouldn't worry about it really. While at the same time being honest that the consequences if that risk comes to pass is ultimate - your life (and a lot of it). Therfore the vaccine is a no-brainer. We don't need to be hyping up the risk to pressure or guilt young folk - it's counter-productive and leads to damaging policies like the vaccine passport being popular when it shouldn't. Honestly those 50-75 deaths per week in >45s will barely be impacted by the reduced spread from <30s forced into getting the vaccine. And we already know that hardly any young people are dying. Huge cost, marginal (or no) benefit.
  6. 0-2 deaths per week in <45 year olds compares to 50-75 deaths a week in >45 year olds (in Scotland, based on provisional death registrations where the death certificates mentions covid).
  7. Can I ask what this statistic is? Is it under 30s seriously unwell with covid or is it under 30s going into hospital with anything, but testing positive with Covid? It seems like a huge number (if the former) and I don't know what to think i.e. whether it's just one of those statistics we've been throwing around recently to terrify young folk into getting the vaccine or whether we should be expecting deaths in young people to increase significantly and disproportionately. Deaths look pretty stable for <45s in Scotland at around 1 or 2 a week (not sure how many are <30 I'm guessing 0 or 1 in most weeks). UK looks like <10 a week (but haven't dug very deep). Am I missing something?
  8. The policy is well intentioned - increase vaccination rates thereby reducing hospitalisations and death. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's the actual effect of the policy that I'm concerned about (not the intent). Both the fact that (1) it is not possible (anymore) to increase vaccinations that much more and achieve a materiel benefit (2) the actual effect is discriminatory. It's just a fact that it's young, poor and black people that are most likely to be most strongly vaccine hesitant. Therefore those are the ones we'll further exclude from society as a result of this policy (regardless of intent). See here for example Black, young and poor people in UK most likely to report Covid vaccine hesitancy | Vaccines and immunisation | The Guardian and here Covid-19 vaccine hesitancy among ethnic minority groups | The BMJ and you can google lots of other official government stats/insights. In terms of the underlying cause of those groups not getting vaccinated. I imagine it's the same underlying cause that leads to those groups having poor health and life outcomes generally. They tend to get a bad start in life and not enough help. The vaccine passport is actually a great example of why those groups get the outcomes they get. Instead of helping them - we're banning them from parts of society for not doing what we tell them There is no rationale reason not to get vaccinated (above a certain age anyway). Some (few) folks heads have unfortunately been filled full of shite and others are probably disinterested in marginal health outcomes generally. If you live your life in real poverty and violence. How much are you worried about Covid? Have the Govenrment said it will be short term? I would think that would undermine their intention, if they have.
  9. PS my objection doesn't extend to folk like ThePlinth, who ought to be intelligent enough to grasp the benefits of vaccination - but have gone tonto on conspiracy theories. He should be forced to get vaccinated and carry a passport just for winding everybody up on TAMB.
  10. The problem is first of all is that the benefit (if we define this as reduced harm) is going to be marginal because we already have a very high % of the population vaccinated, with the remainder largely being young and healthy. This is in contrast to other countries like France when they introduced a similar scheme. We should be careful of any government measure which costs money, but is only capable of delivering a marginal benefit - because that money could be better invested in other measures with higher ROIs. For example, we could reduce waiting lists or improve cancer services. Whatever. So it's a risky investment straight away. In addition to being weak on potential benefits, the societal and moral costs are (in my opinion) very high. The archetypal person who remains unvaccinated will be young, vulnerable, black and poor. These are the very people who I want us to be actively trying to include in our society more - not excluding further. It's a high cost. One that I/we might be prepared to accept, with sufficient offsetting benefits (but see issue above re only marginal benefits being possible). I don't agree with the justification that these people have a choice - therefore fuck them. Who are these people and what brings them to the irrational choice not to get vaccinated. Put yourself in their shoes. Is their choice anything more than expression of all of their experiences and environment? I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of free will, but I do always come back to Irvine Welsh's exploration of where choice ends and begins in Trainspotting or Fitzgerald's snobbish reminder that "a sense of the fundamental decencies is parceled out unequally at birth". Those cunts do a much better job at addressing this than me. Either way, I think the burden is still on us to prove that the harm we cause to non-conforming minorities, in the punitive measures we take against them, are proportionate. We can't just excuse ourselves from this assessment because they have a "choice" to conform. Anyway, getting back to the point - it is my opinion that it is a very shitey thing we are doing to some of the most vulnerable people in our society and alas it will do no fucking good (not really). A bit dramatic. Sorry.
  11. Only watched 1 minute of this. I don't think it's that strange to be honest. Maybe undesirable, but not that strange. I think it's normal for humans to become obsessed by single issues and new risks. It'll pass and become normalised, more and more by the day, and at some point we won't talk about it so much and will take more holistic decisions around how we manage risk in society.
  12. I'm not going to have a serious debate with somebody who thinks the medical community are conspiring to kill people from Covid. I know it's not true. And I know I'll not be able to convince people who believe that it is true - that it is in fact just mice running around in their own head. Phart tried to give a serious intellectual response for pages and you never responded to the data and research contradicting many things that you said or promoted. The problem the unorthodox vaxers (as you put it) have is they post so many lies, that any valid points are drowned out. Similar to your ad-hominem problem*. Which I agree with to an extent. You don't need to be a scientist to have an opinion about the risks and benefits of covid policies. But you can have an opinion without being a lying cunt about it. I actually think the orthodox folk are just freaking out about the amount of lies kicking about and feverishly trying to shut the arguments down. The unorthodox anti-vaccers think they are being censored or suppressed. The truth is hardly any cunt takes the dafties seriously when it comes to their actual choices (rather than what they say on the internet) and nobody is being very effectively censored or suppressed (given the amount of shite on here). So everybody on all sides can calm doon. *kudos for the latin. I haven't seen this used on the internets before
  13. It cannae be very well suppressed if every chicken nugget can find out about it?
  14. Mate, I can't figure out whether you are serious. That article is riddled with lies and half truths. It's the perfect example of fake news. Phart already posted a link to a thread, explaining the difference between prevention and spread, which contradicts the guys fourth sentence. As to vitamin D (and the rest) being an effective treatment, which is being suppressed by the medical community. Wholly mother of fuck. He thinks that doctors are suppressing effective treatments for Covid, and choosing instead to watch people die...for what reason? For money. Fuck off, what an evil cunt. And the thing is, it makes it even more difficult to have genuine debates about what to do with the facts/reaserch e.g. there is an argument to be had about vaccination of children and young people (that isn't answered by facts alone). There is also a lot of arguing to be done about vaccine passports and other restrictive measures and the discrimantory treatment of un-vaccinated persons. However, posting lies just makes it harder to critique government policy and be taken seriously. I think folk just do because it's easier. They don't actually want to change anything, they just want attention
  15. Excellent post, would read again. Snarky bitches. I also love Joe. A pioneer of long-form interviews, who invites almost every viewpoint (an integral part of democracy imo). I also enjoy his comedy. Plus he keeps himself in shape and I respect that. 5 stars all round from me. But he is capable of talking a power of shite. Including the shite you are re-posting here. Which Phart has thoroughly dismantled by referring to actual experts, facts, research and experience.
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