Ally Bongo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Parklife said: Not semantics at all. 😂 30 minutes ago, aaid said: Or facts as I like call them. If the "Independent" MPs call by-elections they are still seen as ex Labour and a Labour problem The semantics was stating a technicality on who calls the by election as it is moot 27 minutes ago, thplinth said: Why do you buy into this pish so willingly (Mr Bongo)? I dont buy into it and know exactly what it going on It doesnt get away from the fact that Corbyn is pish and he lies about Scotland He is just another party before people goon as proven by Brexit and pandering to the 4 million that voted UKIP in 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Lets face it - how long has he had to address the anti semitism issue ? He should have acted strongly long ago so that any engineered allegations could be responded to as pish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Lets face it - how long has he had to address the anti semitism issue ? He should have acted strongly long ago so that any engineered allegations could be responded to as pish I think it's very tricky to get to the bottom of what is considered anti-semitism (and I am no expert) But as far as I looked into it, one of the criticisms is that Corbyn's Labour don't sign up to a particular international definition of anti-semitism, that includes some criticisms of the state of Israel as being anti-semitic. It's easy to see how one could take a principled stance against that definition because it is perceived to stifle criticism of Israel. But then as long as you have that stance, your opponents can always call you 'antisemitic'. So even if Corbyn purged every aspect of antisemitism, other than that one (anti Israel) part, then his opponents could still say he had never done enough. This could affect any of us, that is, any of us (including Jewish anti-Zionists) could be accused of that kind of antisemitism. While Corbyn may not be the greatest party leader, I think part of the problem here is more to do with his refusal to give in to accepting someone else's opinions on Israel - whether you call that doggedness or being dogmatic or whatever, rather than simply weakness. Of course in all this I am not defending his political handling or wider handling of antisemitism. My point is that no matter what he did, it would never be enough, unless he caved in on Israel. I think it's telling that Joan Ryan mentioned Corbyn's attitude to Israel as one of her reasons for quitting. Edited February 19, 2019 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I see the group forgot to reserve their name as a domain name so someone has done it for them lawl https://www.independentgroup.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Lets face it - how long has he had to address the anti semitism issue ? He should have acted strongly long ago so that any engineered allegations could be responded to as pish How should he have done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, phart said: How should he have done this? Better than he has ....clearly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 You can’t answer anti semitism. Unless you quit. Which is the point. Wonder who is funding the independent group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 A glimpse of some of the complexity and controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Definition_of_Antisemitism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjUmteE58ngAhXHZSsKHa4LCNAQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2010%2Faug%2F18%2Fwikipedia-editing-zionist-groups&psig=AOvVaw38TfHheVrLiEwH6gFqIOsM&ust=1550734691489323 rubbish link. Wikipedia editing course run by Zionist groups haha. ah 2010 when the guardian would say Zionist, no chance of that now Edited February 20, 2019 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 hours ago, phart said: I see the group forgot to reserve their name as a domain name so someone has done it for them lawl https://www.independentgroup.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Wonder who is funding the independent group? I read an article last year saying Blair had around £50m for various groups to form a new party. Jay Kay Rowling was part of the funding i think. Its like the 80's all over again, many similarities Extreme Right Wing Govt with the Labour party splitting ( Foot = Corbyn ) Chukka = Owen) Gang of four= Independent Group Britain took a massive swing to the right at this time , and is about to do so again U.J Waving Brits for the Falklands = U.J. Waving Breitexers Scotland Ignored = Scotland Ignored if only Scottish Football was copying the 80's in a similar way.... with Killie being the Dundee Utd of course.... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, stocky said: I read an article last year saying Blair had around £50m for various groups to form a new party. Jay Kay Rowling was part of the funding i think. Its like the 80's all over again, many similarities Extreme Right Wing Govt with the Labour party splitting ( Foot = Corbyn ) Chukka = Owen) Gang of four= Independent Group Britain took a massive swing to the right at this time , and is about to do so again U.J Waving Brits for the Falklands = U.J. Waving Breitexers Scotland Ignored = Scotland Ignored if only Scottish Football was copying the 80's in a similar way.... with Killie being the Dundee Utd of course.... 😉 Don’t really see the government as extreme right wing, they aren’t even that conservative beyond the rhetoric. Corbyn will never be able to unite labour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) The 'anti semitism thing' is a pile of concocted shite. Corbyn's mistake was kowtowing to these wankers at all, he should have loudly told them to go fuck themselves. The end result of these endless smear hatchet jobs will be people just dont give a fuck about accusations of anti semitism anymore. Whenever I hear it now I generally assume it is just an underhand way to silence critics of Israel. The real elephant in the room is an openly racist apartheid state that virtually every politician is too frightened to talk about. Anti semitism has now been carefully and gradually redefined to include valid criticism, this is no accidental drift, this has been done very deliberately to Corbyn and it is frankly disgusting to witness. As Kernaghan posted on here a long time ago now.... An anti-semite is not someone who hates Jews, it is someone the Jews hate. Edited February 20, 2019 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, thplinth said: The 'anti semitism thing' is a pile of concocted shite. Corbyn's mistake was kowtowing to these wankers at all, he should have loudly told them to go fuck themselves. The end result of these endless smear hatchet jobs will be people just dont give a fuck about accusations of anti semitism anymore. Whenever I hear it now I generally assume it is just an underhand way to silence critics of Israel. The real elephant in the room is an openly racist apartheid state that virtually every politician is too frightened to talk about. Anti semitism has now been carefully and gradually redefined to include valid criticism, this is no accidental drift, this has been done very deliberately to Corbyn and it is frankly disgusting to witness. As Kernaghan posted on here a long time ago now.... An anti-semite is not someone who hates Jews, it is someone the Jews hate. Exactly. Ethnic state for Israel, multiculturalism for Europe. The difference in coverage and public opinion between what Israel and Hungry are trying to do for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjUmteE58ngAhXHZSsKHa4LCNAQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2010%2Faug%2F18%2Fwikipedia-editing-zionist-groups&psig=AOvVaw38TfHheVrLiEwH6gFqIOsM&ust=1550734691489323 rubbish link. Wikipedia editing course run by Zionist groups haha. ah 2010 when the guardian would say Zionist, no chance of that now Yeah, example 6. QED. https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf They say 'citizens' rather than the usual 'as a people' in that example which makes it ambiguous. If I disagreed with it though my name would go in the book I'd be in trouble. Oh shit, that would be an example 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 There are people out there who really do hate Jews If anti antisemitism does not apply to them then what does ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 55 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: There are people out there who really do hate Jews If anti antisemitism does not apply to them then what does ? A bigot is a bigot. Treat accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 Tories quit along with another Labour MP to join independent group Strange times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: There are people out there who really do hate Jews No one is arguing that, champ. Folk are merely pointing out that there's no real anti-semitism problem in the Labour Party. A party who under Corbyn have introduced stronger anti-semitism rules than any other party has and have expelled numerous party members. Clearly showing anything that could be construed as anti-semitism will not be tolerated. What is it you want JC to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Och Aye said: 3 Tories quit along with another Labour MP to join independent group Strange times. Must stop brexit to protect the people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I doubt this will bleeds into Scotland but another Unionist party to further split the vote there will only be good news for the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, aaid said: I doubt this will bleeds into Scotland but another Unionist party to further split the vote there will only be good news for the SNP. I would agree with that just as UKIP never truly infiltrated Scotland. I think the real party that will be worrying are the Lib Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: I would agree with that just as UKIP never truly infiltrated Scotland. I think the real party that will be worrying are the Lib Dems. Jo Swinson was all over them on Twitter saluting their bravery. For some reason she always reminds me of a trendy supply teacher who’s desperate to get a permanent role... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Jo Swinson, trendy? Trendy? She is almost Labouresque in being a complete cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Don’t really see the government as extreme right wing, they aren’t even that conservative beyond the rhetoric. Corbyn will never be able to unite labour I don’t think the UK government is ‘extreme right wing’ what they’re doing is pandering to the extreme right wing. Agree that Corbyn will never unite the Labour Party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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