Harvey Barnes

[duncan II]

Can't imagine the current good players who have waited patiently for their chance will be too happy. It risks upsetting the balance of what we've achieved with this squad. Everyone knows, and is happy with, the fact that you need to work your way into the squad and then hang about until earning your chance in the team. Parachuting in a "superstar " risks disharmony.

Also, from the other point of view, is Harvey Barnes willing to hang around to work for his place. He might well make our squad but does he realise that he'll have to work at dislodging McTominey or McGinn? Will he hang about over the course of several squads without getting a sniff?

[vanderark14]

I'm not sure we need this guy.

We have plenty of midfielders and we don't use out and out wingers. 

He's got one full england cap too

on the basis of the above its a no from me

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Wikipedia states he was called up to the full England squad on 1 Oct 2020 and came on as a sub against Wales

Does that no make him ineligible for anyone else ?

It was only a friendly so that cap doesn't tie him to England.

 

6 hours ago, saintydave said:

How does he qualify?

Scottish mum I believe. I'd hoped he might be related to the golfer Brian Barnes given that he too switched from representing England to Scotland, but apparently not.

 

[ProudScot]

56 minutes ago, duncan II said:

Can't imagine the current good players who have waited patiently for their chance will be too happy. It risks upsetting the balance of what we've achieved with this squad. Everyone knows, and is happy with, the fact that you need to work your way into the squad and then hang about until earning your chance in the team. Parachuting in a "superstar " risks disharmony.

Also, from the other point of view, is Harvey Barnes willing to hang around to work for his place. He might well make our squad but does he realise that he'll have to work at dislodging McTominey or McGinn? Will he hang about over the course of several squads without getting a sniff?

Don’t see how it upsets the balance. It’s the same as Angus Gunn very recently. If Clarke decides it’s a good idea then it is at the moment cos he can do no wrong!

[Caledonian Craig]

Why is he transferring over to us? If he is.

Will he be made aware he won't just walk into the team and has to be prepared to wait?

Those are the questions I'd want answered. Who would he be an upgrade on given we have established midfielders all doing a damned good job at international level with Serie A player waiting patiently in the wings. 

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

48 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I'm not sure we need this guy.

We have plenty of midfielders and we don't use out and out wingers. 

He's got one full england cap too

on the basis of the above its a no from me

The system concern is fair but we have gone with 4 at the back recently and played well. If one (or both) of Robertson and Tierney are out then a 4-5-1 would be worth looking at, I think it would work especially well with Dykes in the middle:

Gunn

Hickey - Hendry - Porteous - Robertson

McGregor - Gilmour

McGinn - Mctominay - Barnes

Dykes

McGinn plays a kind of attacking wide right role and Barnes the same wide left with McTominay playing box to box through the middle and McGregor and Gilmour playmaking from deep. The real beauty of this system is it gives us a shape to integrate Doak into the squad once he is ready. We have to accept at some point soon we are going to have to start leaving extremely good players out though, much more so than we already do.

 

 

 

[Third Lanark]

I'm wondering if Clarke is looking head to us playing with a 4-3-3. (After all, it was always his favoured formation prior to managing Scotland)? If so, it would make sense with Doak earmarked for the right wing spot; we have currently no left-sided wingers available to us.

In the short-term I can only see a role for him as a last ten-minute substitute now that Fraser and Forrest are fading out of the picture. Barnes is certainly an upgrade on that other eligible, Jacob Brown so that may have come into Clarke's thinking too. Just on the eligibility question, is Barnes deserving of any more abuse than 'true Scot' Fraser who seemed indifferent to turning up and fighting for his place? 

 

[ceudmilefailte]

He's played for England Ffs, draw a line. 

 

[Third Lanark]

9 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

He's played for England Ffs, draw a line. 

 

So? Declan Rice played for RoI; do England fans reject him? Rules is rools.

[ceudmilefailte]

7 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

So? Declan Rice played for RoI; do England fans reject him? Rules is rools.

Do you think all rules are right. 

You have to draw a line with the watering down of international football. 

Would it be OK to shorten the so called residency rule to a year for example? 

Edited September 10, 2023 by ceudmilefailte

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

do England fans reject him? 

I have no doubt that a portion do.

[Clyde1998]

4 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

He's played for England Ffs, draw a line.

This. He's played in a full international for another country; that should be the line - even if he remains eligible under the current rules.

I'd rather we gave players who are more committed to us an opportunity before turning to those who committed to another country before us, especially as you've got to think he might decide to not to play for us if we start declining.

Also I'm a bit uncertain where he'd even play, unless there is serious consideration to changing the system; attacking midfield?

[Third Lanark]

22 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Do you think all rules are right. 

You have to draw a line with the watering down of international football. 

Would it be OK to shorten the so called residency rule to a year for example? 

That's a different argument but agree it's gone far enough. Don't want it to be like rugby.

[Third Lanark]

21 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

This. He's played in a full international for another country; that should be the line - even if he remains eligible under the current rules.

I'd rather we gave players who are more committed to us an opportunity before turning to those who committed to another country before us, especially as you've got to think he might decide to not to play for us if we start declining.

Also I'm a bit uncertain where he'd even play, unless there is serious consideration to changing the system; attacking midfield?

In the current system he couldn't start; maybe replace a CB near the end. Or play the role Fraser once played, just behind striker.

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

At least Gunn chose us at the start of the qualifiers, this just looks like a chancer move

[Third Lanark]

This reminds me of the old days when some fans wanted an all-tartan team of home-based Scots, as they thought the 'Anglos' were less committed. No one would argue for that now; instead we have the dichotomy between 'real' Scots and 'eligibles'. Doubt if other nations can be bothered with such niceties; they just want the best team.

[Diamond Scot]

Ive gone on record with my support for guys like Anderson and McTomminay who could have choosen England but elected for us.

Barnes is different for me as he actually played a full international for the A side. I wouldnt be comfortable with him being called up right now.

However if my memory serves me correctly (which isnt always the case), Clarke was aware that Adams was open to selection about 6 months before the Euros but didnt call him up until after the tournament.

If Barnes declares for us and is willing to wait until the start of the World Cup campaign then my thoughts would shift to being more receptive.

[ger intae them]

53 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

So? Declan Rice played for RoI; do England fans reject him? Rules is rools.

It’s that kind of ‘they did it,  so we can do it’ attitude that just stinks the place out. In my view you have to have standards and keep them although sometimes you don’t get what you want. Looking at rice & England fans as an example of the right way to behave us a joke. 
International football should be kept as people representing their country. Rugby is also a total joke in this respect.

[er yir macaroon]

I don’t have a problem with this. He’s probably competing with Anderson for a place in the squad, and fairly soon, Doak. No sign of the players being pissed off when Anderson was selected. I think we’ll usually play the 5-4-1 so most likely we’re looking at impact subs. That will change when Robertson is missing or retired.

[Orraloon]

18 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

This reminds me of the old days when some fans wanted an all-tartan team of home-based Scots, as they thought the 'Anglos' were less committed. No one would argue for that now; instead we have the dichotomy between 'real' Scots and 'eligibles'. Doubt if other nations can be bothered with such niceties; they just want the best team.

I have to admit that I was in that squad many moons ago. But so was Jock Stein, so I was in good company on that one at the time.

[er yir macaroon]

1 minute ago, Diamond Scot said:

Ive gone on record with my support for guys like Anderson and McTomminay who could have choosen England but elected for us.

Barnes is different for me as he actually played a full international for the A side. I wouldnt be comfortable with him being called up right now.

However if my memory serves me correctly (which isnt always the case), Clarke was aware that Adams was open to selection about 6 months before the Euros but didnt call him up until after the tournament.

If Barnes declares for us and is willing to wait until the start of the World Cup campaign then my thoughts would shift to being more receptive.

Adams played at the Euros and failed to hit a barn door!

[Diamond Scot]

5 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Adams played at the Euros and failed to hit a barn door!

So he did. I had it in my head that Clarke didnt call him up straight away like many were concerned about.

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

I understand the unease of plenty posters to an extent but for me eligibility is a complex thing. It is perfectly possible for someone to have/feel multiple nationalities perhaps even some more strongly that others. For me it’s really about whether the player will improve on what we have and I think all of those being talked about as potentially wanting to play for us add something to our squad. 

There’s a scenario here where by next year we end up with Barnes, Gordon, Doak, Fraser and to an extent McGinn and Anderson (depending on where each is to play) fighting it out for starting spots. That can never be a bad thing.

The same applies to Livramento, he may or may not get into our squad in any given international window but having him fighting for a place is surely a good thing.

[bigfingers]

13 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

The dressing room are obviously together.  Personally I don't think he's good enough to risk the collective spirit for.  

Going 10 straight qualifying games winning and he suddenly decides we're good enough for him - gtf! 

Might end up being a common thing now. We used to try and find anyone that was eligible, now it’s the opposite anyone eligible is wanting to play for us. 

[gonzohiggy]

He’s a good player who gives us something different. Quick and direct.

Its Clarkes job to ensure the harmony of the current squad isn’t disrupted and that is something that he will do as expertly as he has created it in the first place.