Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

the SNP only have themselves to blame, they have fucked it - called this a year ago with the tie up with the greens.  Labour now moving in to the centre left chasm that the snp have vacated.

With the constitution off the agenda people are voting on non constitutional matters.  You will still get the radicals and the youngsters voting snp/green but a massive swing to labour now inevitable. 

its not inevatable, labour will be exposed come the GE, the key is getting the snp back to the middle ground where it has historically sat. SNP voters have bycoted yesterdays by election and unionists have joined forces, in a ge labour will take 40/45% in that seat. time for the snp to move and move fast to reclaim the party

[ParisInAKilt]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

they care about the policy and state of a party she has left in her wake... the general public are oblivious to the salmond case however it will come out in the wash

Labour will support similar policies. Guess it’s all about perception. 

But the snp for a party of independence don’t know how to get it. Almost comical. 

[Bristolhibby]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Labour will support similar policies. Guess it’s all about perception. 

But the snp for a party of independence don’t know how to get it. Almost comical. 

Comical that’s there’s no legal route to Independence unless Westminster says so.

Flys in the face of the UN pillar of everyone having the right to National Self Determination. 
 

J

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Labour are in a strong position at the moment, electorally in the ascendancy while able to blame the Tories in Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood.

 

Nah - if you look at this it is clear what happened

If the SNP voters had came out they would have won it

The SNP and Labour can spin this anyway they like but it is now obvious that continuity wont cut it

[hampden_loon2878]

29 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Nah - if you look at this it is clear what happened

If the SNP voters had came out they would have won it

The SNP and Labour can spin this anyway they like but it is now obvious that continuity wont cut it

what we need to accept that those "snp voters" who didnt turn out wont be "snp voters" if things dont change dramatically

[Och Aye]

28 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Nah - if you look at this it is clear what happened

If the SNP voters had came out they would have won it

The SNP and Labour can spin this anyway they like but it is now obvious that continuity wont cut it

Incredible stats there. The momentum and passion we had has dropped off a cliff. Going to take something/someone special to get it back (I emphasise someone and I know that's not how it should be but I'm afraid it is).

[TDYER63]

32 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Nah - if you look at this it is clear what happened

If the SNP voters had came out they would have won it

The SNP and Labour can spin this anyway they like but it is now obvious that continuity wont cut it

That is very telling, it could not scream more of protest action. 

That table should be pinned on the desk of every SNP MP and MSP with the words ‘Your future ’ . Bad weather cannot be blamed for the low turnout . 
 

[Malcolm]

if the SNP had any sense they would ditch the greens, develop sensible centerist policy, and put Independence front and centre of everything.

 

[Hertsscot]

15 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

if the SNP had any sense they would ditch the greens, develop sensible centerist policy, and put Independence front and centre of everything.

 

I think we'll see how naive many English commentators are on events in Scotland. In spite of the win this is not a massive endorsement of Starmer's Labour or the UK but it is a massive protest vote against the SNP. The SNP need to wake up and smell the coffee. I was at a Christians for Independence talk a few weeks back and the speaker talked about hubris leading to nemesis, I think that what we've seen here.

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Regardless of turn out, no one can spin this any other way,, the SNP are currently fucked and the sooner the party realise it, the more chance we have of saving the party,,, it has been over run by faking idiots who give zero fucks about independence,, aaid will be along trying to spin this however, considering the amount of campaigning done here there can be no spinning,,, all the snp politicians who were out on the door steps have had a rude awakening, they have seen first hand how fucked we are under the continuity candidate,, a sturgeon legacy. 

And yet Mr Continuity is plastered across the front of Time magazine, despite everything being a shit show since he took over.

Then again, he's taking the party and the movement in the direction its opponents want it to go - of course he's being lauded. 🙄 For that reason I don't expect much blowback, even following this terrible result.

Hopefully the more people see of Labour the less they like them. They've lost none of their arrogance and entitlement, despite the past decade, and this result will bring that to the fore.

It's a bad place to be when you're relying on your main rival being shite to keep your head above water though. Unfortunately, until the SNP ditch Humza and his yes people I can't see anything improving.

[Ally Bongo]

Marcus Carslaw SNP staffer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marcus Carslaw

 

@marcuscarslaw1

·

2h

 

With the party’s current difficulties, pushing hard for independence would be counterproductive. Focus on the issues of the day and building the case and support, and drop the silly suggestion that a plurality of seats on a reduced share of vote will deliver independence.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Ally Bongo

[hampden_loon2878]

i see the Green Party have refused to rule out a power sharing agreement with Labour in Holyrood.

[EddardStark]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

That is very telling, it could not scream more of protest action. 

That table should be pinned on the desk of every SNP MP and MSP with the words ‘Your future ’ . Bad weather cannot be blamed for the low turnout . 
 

Protest vote or not its worrying for the SNP as they will be the main loser in multiple protest votes in  GE.  

[Freeedom]

This result perfectly reflects upon Sturgeons time in office, this is what she should be remembered for. 

But like all narcissists she's now going to spend a lot of time trying to rebrand herself in the face of a disastrous legacy. 

The independence movement has been left in tatters during the time of greatest opportunity, how very Scottish

[glasgow jock]

Regardless of how this is tarted up with the usual soundbites, this is a disaster and has set our movement back at least 15 years, self inflicted yes, deliberate Hmmmm fuck knows, the SNP are now too soft, too tame, too passive.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

40 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

This result perfectly reflects upon Sturgeons time in office, this is what she should be remembered for. 

But like all narcissists she's now going to spend a lot of time trying to rebrand herself in the face of a disastrous legacy. 

The independence movement has been left in tatters during the time of greatest opportunity, how very Scottish

correct

[TDYER63]

59 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

Protest vote or not its worrying for the SNP as they will be the main loser in multiple protest votes in  GE.  

I know , thats why I said message with ‘ your future’ . If they choose to ignore this glaring rejection then more fool them. 
The only positive is that Labour made absolutely no gains on 2019 despite how high profile this by election was. They didn’t even manage to capitalise on the Tory collapse. 

But if the SNP hierarchy stick their heads in the sand and ignore this stark warning they will be obliterated. 

 

[ParisInAKilt]

5 hours ago, Bristolhibby said:

Comical that’s there’s no legal route to Independence unless Westminster says so.

Is that true 

[Caledonian Craig]

8 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

They’ve lost any momentum and possibly a wee bit of credibility, rightly or wrongly and for a party of independence don’t seem to have a clue how to achieve it. 

Correction no man or woman political or non-political have no idea how to achieve independence.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Is that true 

Yes it is quite clearly. Westminster have done us up legally, have contol of all major media outlets snd call all shots on the matter. The only time in 300+ years there has been a true full blown IndyRef had F all to do with Salmond's SNP and all to do with Cameron agreeing to allow it.

[aaid]

A new poll out today shows majority support for independence.

Seems like the Scottish electorate like independence, they just seem to dislike the SNP right now.

Problem is, they dislike the other pro-independence parties even more.

How do you square this particular circle?

Answers on a postcard to ...

[AlfieMoon]

“Buck stops with me” from Yousaf gave the BBC the soundbite and headline they need. Sounds weak as fvck. 
 

[Freeedom]

11 minutes ago, aaid said:

A new poll out today shows majority support for independence.

Seems like the Scottish electorate like independence, they just seem to dislike the SNP right now.

Problem is, they dislike the other pro-independence parties even more.

How do you square this particular circle?

Answers on a postcard to ...

I'm in this demographic with a lot of other people. I may disagree quite a bit on policy with the likes of Hampden loon but it's pretty simple what brings us together. 

We want independence, we need it to be front and centre and we need to see a coherent plan of how to get there with strong leadership behind a campaign. The SNP offer none of that.

[Ally Bongo]

16 minutes ago, aaid said:

A new poll out today shows majority support for independence.

Seems like the Scottish electorate like independence, they just seem to dislike the SNP right now.

Problem is, they dislike the other pro-independence parties even more.

How do you square this particular circle?

Answers on a postcard to ...

1 Ditch the Sturgeon era

2 New Leader

3 New Cabinet

4 New Strategists

5 Move elected woo woo MSPs/MPs that don't have Independence as their priority to the shadows

6 Independence front and centre at all times and attack the BBC/MSM

7 Be more populist

 

The alternative is wipe out at the next elections and a minimum of 5 years in the Wilderness going through points 1-7

 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

1 Ditch the Sturgeon era

2 New Leader

3 New Cabinet

4 New Strategists

5 Move elected woo woo MSPs/MPs that don't have Independence as their priority to the shadows

6 Independence front and centre at all times and attack the BBC/MSM

7 Be more populist

 

The alternative is wipe out at the next elections and a minimum of 5 years in the Wilderness going through points 1-7

 

So be like a pro-Indy version of the post-Brexit Tories because that’s exactly what’s you’re describing.