Europe 2022/23

[Malcolm]

It’s all relative … Celtic and rangers are big fish in a wee pond in Scotland, but minnows in Europe.  Certainly champions league is way too big for Celtic and rangers and they would do better in the europa conference league.

we will eventually end up with something like a European league as that’s the direction of travel.

 

[ErsatzThistle]

Ajax already one nil up.

[vanderark14]

6 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Ajax already one nil up.

Does this leave them with the unwanted tag of worst team in CL group history?

[Fairbairn]

26 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Does this leave them with the unwanted tag of worst team in CL group history?

Unless Barca absolutely hose Plzen tonight then yes. And we absolutely deserve it. 

[Hertsscot]

Well Rangers are out of the CL. All I can say is it's a relief. I don't expect miracles but the difference in the last six months has been horrendous. Injury list has been a key factor and poor recruitment in the last three or four windows.

[Fairbairn]

8 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Well Rangers are out of the CL. All I can say is it's a relief. I don't expect miracles but the difference in the last six months has been horrendous. Injury list has been a key factor and poor recruitment in the last three or four windows.

Throw in poor coaching, fitness and attitude from a couple of key players and you’ve got a perfect storm of shiteness. Thank fuck it’s over. 

[JECK]

They’ll probably hose a st mirren or someone 3 or 4 at the weekend

[ErsatzThistle]

28 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

Throw in poor coaching, fitness and attitude from a couple of key players and you’ve got a perfect storm of shiteness. Thank fuck it’s over. 

Apart from Morelos obviously, who would the other trouble makers be ?

[Fairbairn]

3 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Apart from Morelos obviously, who would the other trouble makers be ?

Kent. Not a trouble maker as such but looks like he’s phoning it in. Neither should have been allowed to get to the stage where they can sign a pre contract in 2 months. Shocking mismanagement from Wilson. 

[Toepoke]

 

What a comedown from a European final six months ago!

 

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Fairbairn said:

Kent. Not a trouble maker as such but looks like he’s phoning it in. Neither should have been allowed to get to the stage where they can sign a pre contract in 2 months. Shocking mismanagement from Wilson. 

Just a by product of the poor business practice that has been Rangers for as long as I can remember.

The problem Rangers face is that 14 months ago when the real hard discussions were had with Moreles, Kent and Aribo the correct business decision would have been to sell if a new contract wasnt signed. At that stage it wouldnt have been unrealistic to get 13 mil for Moreles and 10 each for Aribo and Kent. 

However the Rangers support would simply not have stood for 3 of their best players being sold. Rightly or wrongly thats mindset of a large percentage of Rangers fans. That leaves the board in a very difficult position. Do the right business decision and upset the customer base who support the club. 

If Rangers sell those players and dont win the league then the board are getting firelit.

The culture of the club / fans dictates what goes on. Ajax is a really good example of the opposite culture. Ajax just lost their manager and several of their best players however that is their model. They are unapologetic about it and the fans accept it. It means that their success sometimes has cycles. 

Neither side of the old firm would accept such a culture and thus they will always be in an endless cycle of dominating domestically but struggling in Europe. I caveat that with the acceptance that every now and then both OF clubs have a season where the stars align and they will excel in the Europa league.

[Kirk]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Just a by product of the poor business practice that has been Rangers for as long as I can remember.

The problem Rangers face is that 14 months ago when the real hard discussions were had with Moreles, Kent and Aribo the correct business decision would have been to sell if a new contract wasnt signed. At that stage it wouldnt have been unrealistic to get 13 mil for Moreles and 10 each for Aribo and Kent. 

However the Rangers support would simply not have stood for 3 of their best players being sold. Rightly or wrongly thats mindset of a large percentage of Rangers fans. That leaves the board in a very difficult position. Do the right business decision and upset the customer base who support the club. 

If Rangers sell those players and dont win the league then the board are getting firelit.

The culture of the club / fans dictates what goes on. Ajax is a really good example of the opposite culture. Ajax just lost their manager and several of their best players however that is their model. They are unapologetic about it and the fans accept it. It means that their success sometimes has cycles. 

Neither side of the old firm would accept such a culture and thus they will always be in an endless cycle of dominating domestically but struggling in Europe. I caveat that with the acceptance that every now and then both OF clubs have a season where the stars align and they will excel in the Europa league.

This is a good post, and makes a lot of sense.

Kent however is a diddy.
Rangers should have taken the money for Morelos if it was there, I don't actually remember anyone offering anything for kent though? 

[Big Ramy 1314]

I think rangers should be proud of themselves. It takes a lot of bottle to be that consistent. History makers once again.. Long may it continue !!!

[Big Ramy 1314]

One other thing. Folk that say Celtic are out of their depth, and don't belong in the Champions League know hee haw about football. We were never outclassed or embarrassed like sevco was. We more than held our own, we just missed the killer instinct, and did not take our chances, and in the CL, you will be punished. I'm proud of my Bhoys..  

[vanderark14]

As much as I enjoy seeing the OF being iut of their depth and then complaining about the financial gulf.........this cunt needs a slap.

https://t.co/XeqphIBJzx

 

An absolute bell end like the vast majority of pundits on talksport. 

[Hertsscot]

9 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Apart from Morelos obviously, who would the other trouble makers be ?

I'd add Kamara to that list as well. Maybe not trouble maker but there's something wrong.

[Fairbairn]

4 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I'd add Kamara to that list as well. Maybe not trouble maker but there's something wrong.

I think Gio just doesn't fancy him.  Another ridiculous decision to knock back the bid from France in the summer (Lille maybe?) and then not play him.  And the decision to play Sands ahead of him is baffling.

[thplinth]

You should harpoon Morelos as he exits the pie shop and harvest his blubber for rendering down into oil which can be used to fuel the lamps in the boardroom. That should be worth a few quid at least and it will save on the canteen bills. Win-Win.

Money and player power have totally transformed the relationship between managers and players. So many times now it 'the players have stopped playing for him' and then they get the sack... Players don't get the sack though, maybe they should. Have a fat clause in the contract or something.

[Diamond Scot]

7 hours ago, Kirk said:

This is a good post, and makes a lot of sense.

Kent however is a diddy.
Rangers should have taken the money for Morelos if it was there, I don't actually remember anyone offering anything for kent though? 

I think Leeds were rumoured to be long term interests.

The point being is that clubs like Rangers need to sell from a position of power which means selling players when their value is highest.

Ive said numerous times that Rangers should have sold Tav as soon as they won the league, safe in the knowledge that Patterson would play for 2 or 3 years after. You then get large fees for both players.

If you look at Kent, Aribo, Kamara, Tav and Moreles you could have made decent profits on all of them.

Kent, bought for 7 mil. Sold for around 10 mil. Aribo bought for 250k sold for 10 mil. Kamara bought for 50k sold for 10 mil, tav bought for 500k sold for 10 mil and Moreles bought for 2 mil sold for 12. 

That would have been about 40 to 45 million profit just from 5 players. Instead the same 5 players will get Rangers 8 million from Aribo and lucky to get 4 from Kamara.

Basey was a rare example of really good business however he was abit of a one off because the offer was so high, refusing it wasnt even a possibility. I suspect if the offer was around 12 million that Rangers might not have sold which would still have been madness given the fee they bought him for.

 

[Fairbairn]

7 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I think Leeds were rumoured to be long term interests.

The point being is that clubs like Rangers need to sell from a position of power which means selling players when their value is highest.

Ive said numerous times that Rangers should have sold Tav as soon as they won the league, safe in the knowledge that Patterson would play for 2 or 3 years after. You then get large fees for both players.

If you look at Kent, Aribo, Kamara, Tav and Moreles you could have made decent profits on all of them.

Kent, bought for 7 mil. Sold for around 10 mil. Aribo bought for 250k sold for 10 mil. Kamara bought for 50k sold for 10 mil, tav bought for 500k sold for 10 mil and Moreles bought for 2 mil sold for 12. 

That would have been about 40 to 45 million profit just from 5 players. Instead the same 5 players will get Rangers 8 million from Aribo and lucky to get 4 from Kamara.

Basey was a rare example of really good business however he was abit of a one off because the offer was so high, refusing it wasnt even a possibility. I suspect if the offer was around 12 million that Rangers might not have sold which would still have been madness given the fee they bought him for.

 

I agree with your general point but nobody was giving us £10M for Tavernier. The others have all had rumours at some point for fees close to what you've mentioned (or higher in some cases) but the only bid/rumour I can remember for Tav was West Brom and it was about £2M if I remember correctly.

[ceudmilefailte]

7 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

One other thing. Folk that say Celtic are out of their depth, and don't belong in the Champions League know hee haw about football. We were never outclassed or embarrassed like sevco was. We more than held our own, we just missed the killer instinct, and did not take our chances, and in the CL, you will be punished. I'm proud of my Bhoys..  

Stats, show that Celtic were far from out of their depth. 

Could end up seeing this as one of the worst performing Rangers sides in years. Be surprised if they get within 10 points of Celtic. 

Still be 20 clear of the rest mind you going by their demolition of Scotland 3rd best club on Saturday. 

[Ally Bongo]

Apart from what's been said the problem with Rangers as far as i can see is a total reliance on Morelos for far too long 

When his form dipped they struggled in big games as their makeshift Plan B was poor

With the exit of a couple of big names and Morelos being finished that struggle has been exacerbated

[Fairbairn]

44 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Apart from what's been said the problem with Rangers as far as i can see is a total reliance on Morelos for far too long 

When his form dipped they struggled in big games as their makeshift Plan B was poor

With the exit of a couple of big names and Morelos being finished that struggle has been exacerbated

That's true in part but worth pointing out we got through Europa quarters and semis against decent opposition without him and won the Scottish Cup.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Stats, show that Celtic were far from out of their depth. 

Could end up seeing this as one of the worst performing Rangers sides in years. Be surprised if they get within 10 points of Celtic. 

Still be 20 clear of the rest mind you going by their demolition of Scotland 3rd best club on Saturday. 

for some reason we got sucked into the whole north american stats thing starting in mid 80s - although back then it was corners etc - it really bores the arse off me ; assists etc = i can see how its relevant in NFL and rugby as yardage and possession typically translate into points

football is all about finishing ; who cares if you hit the bar three times , it really means nothing if you lose 1-0 to a team who score their only chance of the game

[Big Ramy 1314]

1 minute ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

for some reason we got sucked into the whole north american stats thing starting in mid 80s - although back then it was corners etc - it really bores the arse off me ; assists etc = i can see how its relevant in NFL and rugby as yardage and possession typically translate into points

football is all about finishing ; who cares if you hit the bar three times , it really means nothing if you lose 1-0 to a team who score their only chance of the game

Totally agree, even when we went to the Uefa Cup Final in 03, we were punching. Stats mean fuck all if you can't put the ball on the net....