Grim Jim Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 34 minutes ago, ProudScot said: What have the Romans ever done for us? I was going to say Diego Maradona, but have Napoli and Lazio mixed up. A punchline only 140 miles out is pretty good for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 50 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Aye Doddsy wouldn't have been that much of an upgrade on who went to France, but he did end up being a decent option for us One I forgot to mention was Don Hutchinson, within a few months he was our main man up front, if only Brown had taken a punt on him earlier 🫤 Dare I say it, Hutchison was normally a midfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 The sad thing about this is that since 1986 it has been replicated almost repeatedly Scotland not turning up under Clarke isn't a new thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4Footsoldier Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Why do we need to keep digging back up this embarrassing thread title? To be fair I've not seen much slander of Clarke on this thread but there are undertones of people losing their nut at a couple of friendly results. Every international team has bad international windows now and again, the important thing is how the team respond, and as long as the "fans" don't start to pile on needless pressure facilitated by the gutter press ahead of a big tournament for their click rates. The stat much banded about I'll repeat: 15 wins from 21 competitive games - the last 2 being dead rubber where we played with a threadbare squad 2 wins from 19 Friendlies I'm not suggesting Clarke is anything like Berti Vogts, but the difference in approach and between friendlies and competitive games does have a certain similarity. Obviously Berti failed but he was the last manager before Clarke to take us anywhere near qualification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 2 hours ago, N4Footsoldier said: Obviously Berti failed but he was the last manager before Clarke to take us anywhere near qualification. McLeish got us within a game of qualifying too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 20 hours ago, Third Lanark said: After watching that you tube analysis of Ferguson the whole way through ( can't find who posted it but thanks for doing it), I now think we should build around Ferguson, even it means - leaving out Tierney or Robertson. He is the ideal no. 10 and should bring out the best in Shankland. How about: Gunn: Hickey, Hanley, McKenna, Robertson/Tierney; Gilmour, McGregor; McTom, Ferguson, McGinn: Shankland. What youtube analysis is this? Ferguson looked quite good the other night but building a team around him? I'm not sure. I would say that McGinn's form worries me as he's been consistently off it for a while for us. He's also captain of a side challenging for the top 4 so I can understand him not being as good in dead rubbers and friendlies. I wouldn't want to drop Robertson but I don't think his place in Liverpool's starting XI is safe now and there's not much point in him attacking down the left for us if his crossing is like it was against the Netherlands. In fact, Tierney put in some good balls against NI so I prefer it when he goes forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, Toepoke said: McLeish got us within a game of qualifying too. And he took us to the playoff which eventually got us qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 38 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Robo's starting place is nailed on at Liverpool, if you read their forums then they'll tell you how much they miss him when he is out the team and Tsimikas is nowhere near his level apart from his crossing ability. Ferguson video below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPyxwWAD8d0&t=602s&ab_channel=OllieCopland He's not been replaced by him. He's been dropped a few times for Gomez recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 2 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Gomez was in because Roberston was injured for a while 2 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Gomez was in because Roberston was injured for a while Thanks for the link. There were a couple of recent games with Gomez starting. Could be Robertson's fitness which probably means he shouldn't have been called up. He's also 30 which is getting on for a FB. Hopefully ages like Kyle Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 4 hours ago, N4Footsoldier said: Why do we need to keep digging back up this embarrassing thread title? To be fair I've not seen much slander of Clarke on this thread but there are undertones of people losing their nut at a couple of friendly results. Every international team has bad international windows now and again, the important thing is how the team respond, and as long as the "fans" don't start to pile on needless pressure facilitated by the gutter press ahead of a big tournament for their click rates. The stat much banded about I'll repeat: 15 wins from 21 competitive games - the last 2 being dead rubber where we played with a threadbare squad 2 wins from 19 Friendlies I'm not suggesting Clarke is anything like Berti Vogts, but the difference in approach and between friendlies and competitive games does have a certain similarity. Obviously Berti failed but he was the last manager before Clarke to take us anywhere near qualification. The difference between Vogts and Clarke is Vogts tried lots of different players during friendlies. Clarke seems hell bent on sticking by the same core group of settled players constantly. Probably too settled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4Footsoldier Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 4 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said: The difference between Vogts and Clarke is Vogts tried lots of different players during friendlies. Clarke seems hell bent on sticking by the same core group of settled players constantly. Probably too settled Fair comment, there is a trade off in internationals between trying all the talent out there available and getting a consistent, club-like mentality. The latter is harder to achieve in internationals and has been beneficial to date so I can see why he is continuing like this. Our main squad depth-related issue (outside of certain positions) is the drop off between the first XI and the second string, which we have seen badly exposed at times. The issue with Berti in friendlies was his willingness to try out players who were clearly not international standard and hence would rarely be called up again, which hurt any benefit we could gain from those friendly international breaks and eventually affected consistency, back when friendlies were much more common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, N4Footsoldier said: Fair comment, there is a trade off in internationals between trying all the talent out there available and getting a consistent, club-like mentality. The latter is harder to achieve in internationals and has been beneficial to date so I can see why he is continuing like this. Our main squad depth-related issue (outside of certain positions) is the drop off between the first XI and the second string, which we have seen badly exposed at times. The issue with Berti in friendlies was his willingness to try out players who were clearly not international standard and hence would rarely be called up again, which hurt any benefit we could gain from those friendly international breaks and eventually affected consistency, back when friendlies were much more common. Vogts probably managed us at our lowest regarding available players loyalty to players is great but with Dykes and particularly Patterson out of form. Alternatives should be blooded surely. If Patterson plays like he did in the last two matches we are in deep trouble unless Hickey comes back Ralston has been in the squad for some time and should have played at some point. A lot of people don’t rate him but he can’t be any worse than Patterson was in the two friendlies He might be second choice at Celtic but I doubt he would be behind the two geriatrics Patterson is at Everton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Clarke tries nothing new during friendly games, yet his record in them is appalling. The NI game was an opportunity to at least do something different, yet all we witnessed was another central midfielder dominated piss poor performance. There seems to be a notion that Clarke is untouchable amongst a number of fans, he isn't the messiah, he isn't brilliant, and he does do things that warrant criticism. I know that some people can't quite grasp that, but your loyalty toward him isn't replicated by everyone else. When we do well under him, he gets praised, when we do poorly under him, he absolutely deserves criticism. We have three games in June to look forward to. If he gets it right, he will be a national hero, if it goes badly like the last Euros, then he will be due every single bit of criticism heading his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 26 minutes ago, kumnio said: Clarke tries nothing new during friendly games, yet his record in them is appalling. The NI game was an opportunity to at least do something different, yet all we witnessed was another central midfielder dominated piss poor performance. There seems to be a notion that Clarke is untouchable amongst a number of fans, he isn't the messiah, he isn't brilliant, and he does do things that warrant criticism. I know that some people can't quite grasp that, but your loyalty toward him isn't replicated by everyone else. When we do well under him, he gets praised, when we do poorly under him, he absolutely deserves criticism. We have three games in June to look forward to. If he gets it right, he will be a national hero, if it goes badly like the last Euros, then he will be due every single bit of criticism heading his way. Tell you what lets keep this thread going until our next manager in is a Craig Levein-type and we go back to failing to qualify for major tournaments. There is no Ferguson, Water Smith or Jock Stein out there willing to take this job and certainly no foreign managers we can afford who want it and can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, kumnio said: Clarke tries nothing new during friendly games, yet his record in them is appalling. The NI game was an opportunity to at least do something different, yet all we witnessed was another central midfielder dominated piss poor performance. There seems to be a notion that Clarke is untouchable amongst a number of fans, he isn't the messiah, he isn't brilliant, and he does do things that warrant criticism. I know that some people can't quite grasp that, but your loyalty toward him isn't replicated by everyone else. When we do well under him, he gets praised, when we do poorly under him, he absolutely deserves criticism. We have three games in June to look forward to. If he gets it right, he will be a national hero, if it goes badly like the last Euros, then he will be due every single bit of criticism heading his way. I've yet to see anyone say he is beyond criticism and there's certainly nobody labelling him the messiah or untouchable. If he gets us passed this group in June......... he's definitely the messiah 😆 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burj_Alba Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 25 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: That just ain't true though whatsoever and based on nothing at all. I bet there will be a lot of well respected managers who would be interested in taking this job especially with the squad we have now Not disagreeing with you but give us a few names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burj_Alba Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Scotland's record in friendlies over the past 20 years have been awful(particularly ones leading up to major tournaments or those soulless ones under Berti) Thank God for the Nations League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: Tell you what lets keep this thread going until our next manager in is a Craig Levein-type and we go back to failing to qualify for major tournaments. There is no Ferguson, Water Smith or Jock Stein out there willing to take this job and certainly no foreign managers we can afford who want it and can do it. Levin was shite, everyone agrees on that, Clarke has a different squad of players, and has managed to qualify for two 24 team Euros, not a 16 team Euros. It is entirely possible to criticise Clarke on his merits, without having to compare him to previous incumbents. When he does go, we won't collapse. He isn't a magician, he isn't a one man show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, Scotty2Hotty said: The issue is though that as soon as you offer any sort of constructive criticism of Clarke then you get called things like a troll etc by posters like yourself... That's absolute nonsense. I haven't called anyone else a troll except you Oh and, hiya chripper... how many accounts have you had now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ84 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Simply cannot believe Steve Clarke didn’t make wholesale changes and throw caps out like Berti Vogts for the last camp before he picks his squad for the Euros. The Euros in which the current squad lost one - ONE - game in qualifying. The SFA must act now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/29/2024 at 8:38 AM, Scotty2Hotty said: Fair points but Steve Clarke has made some errors IMO when picking the team that have already been spoken about in this thread but of course not everyone will agree I’d rather he made mistakes in meaningless (result wise anyway) friendlies than qualifiers and Nations League games where he has done exceptionally well overall. Clarke will ultimately be judged on his qualifying record and what we actually do at tournaments when we get there and not on bounce games against Netherlands and NI. He didn’t exactly cover himself in glory at the last tournament but he has a chance to put that right in June. As long as he learned something in the last couple of games then those games should have some sort of benefit ahead of the Euros. If we beat Gibraltar (surely) and Finland (or at least put in a good performance) we can forget all about the March friendlies and go to Germany with the confidence we should have after our qualifying campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 hour ago, kumnio said: Levin was shite, everyone agrees on that, Clarke has a different squad of players, and has managed to qualify for two 24 team Euros, not a 16 team Euros. It is entirely possible to criticise Clarke on his merits, without having to compare him to previous incumbents. When he does go, we won't collapse. He isn't a magician, he isn't a one man show. Levein had much worse players at his disposal. Our team was rubbish under Steve Clarke until the 2nd half of WC qualifying. Not saying he's done badly but I agree that he's no genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 15 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: I’d rather he made mistakes in meaningless (result wise anyway) friendlies than qualifiers and Nations League games where he has done exceptionally well overall. Clarke will ultimately be judged on his qualifying record and what we actually do at tournaments when we get there and not on bounce games against Netherlands and NI. He didn’t exactly cover himself in glory at the last tournament but he has a chance to put that right in June. As long as he learned something in the last couple of games then those games should have some sort of benefit ahead of the Euros. If we beat Gibraltar (surely) and Finland (or at least put in a good performance) we can forget all about the March friendlies and go to Germany with the confidence we should have after our qualifying campaign. The Finland game's a weird one, it's hard to imagine any of the players busting a gut and risking injury ahead of, what could be, their only chance of playing at a major tournament 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Just now, todd said: The Finland game's a weird one, it's hard to imagine any of the players busting a gut and risking injury ahead of, what could be, their only chance of playing at a major tournament 🤔 We had to play someone but aye tournament warm up games are always a bit flat. I’m just glad we are not warming up another team to go to a tournament which has pretty much been the case for the last 26 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Well done for contradicting yourself in the same post! Thanks I give it a month before you get banned again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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