The news thread

[SamP]

Just watching the news from Turkey.  I don't agree with giving money for places with wars.  But in cases like this they need help.  And guess what?  Nato and the EU are the first to step in and help.  Poor buggers.  Latest estimate is 500 dead.  Wonder if Russia will step up to the plate.

[SamP]

3 minutes ago, SamP said:

Just watching the news from Turkey.  I don't agree with giving money for places with wars.  But in cases like this they need help.  And guess what?  Nato and the EU are the first to step in and help.  Poor buggers.  Latest estimate is 500 dead.  Wonder if Russia will step up to the plate.

Sorry, nearly 5000.  My god.

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Your asking the SNP to be absolutely perfect, you're asking the impossible. The opposition will always find some sort of ammo against the SNP. If anyone is turned off Independence because of gender reform or because sturgeon didn't call someone he, they were never really up for it in the first place. See malcolm as the perfect example, these voters wants some sort of utopia where everything they desire is delivered if Independence is won. The slightest lean to the left or right by the snp loses votes because so many don't understand what Independence is.

 

 

I don't know if you saw the results from the last referendum but we need to gain votes, not lose them.

I just wish Sturgeon showed as much passion pushing for independence as she does with this stuff. 

[vanderark14]

40 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't know if you saw the results from the last referendum but we need to gain votes, not lose them.

I just wish Sturgeon showed as much passion pushing for independence as she does with this stuff. 

I am aware we need to win votes but at the same time people are screaming for them to govern, when a party governs a country they will sometimes win favour and other times they won't. 

This whole GRA issues means absolutely fuck all to me but clearly others have a problem with it. The SNP can win back voters in other ways, this is a setback not the end.

[TDYER63]

4 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I am aware we need to win votes but at the same time people are screaming for them to govern, when a party governs a country they will sometimes win favour and other times they won't. 

This whole GRA issues means absolutely fuck all to me but clearly others have a problem with it. The SNP can win back voters in other ways, this is a setback not the end.

If people put as much effort into campaigning as they did moaning about Nicola Sturgeon/ Alex Salmond/ A N Other leader that they took umbrage with then we would have independence by now. I can guarantee that whoever replaces NS will piss off the same folk within 6 months of being in the job. 

I doubt she will survive this. Too many people supposedly on her side sticking the boot in . She has most definitely dug herself into a hole on this one and her stubborn attitude is not a good look. It has , however, been  blown out of all proportion. 
This is like manna from heaven for unionists. They know she is the only real threat. Not because she is some iconic leader, but because , whether folk like it or not, she is the face of independence . By obliterating that face the independence movement is weakened massively. 
So , when folk wake up one day to Kate Forbes/ Angus Robertson or any other candidate who is in a job totally out their depth they might want to consider how independence moves forward and if joining ranks with the Daily Mail , about a fringe issue , was really worth it. 

[slasher]

17 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

If people put as much effort into campaigning as they did moaning about Nicola Sturgeon/ Alex Salmond/ A N Other leader that they took umbrage with then we would have independence by now. I can guarantee that whoever replaces NS will piss off the same folk within 6 months of being in the job. 

I doubt she will survive this. Too many people supposedly on her side sticking the boot in . She has most definitely dug herself into a hole on this one and her stubborn attitude is not a good look. It has , however, been  blown out of all proportion. 
This is like manna from heaven for unionists. They know she is the only real threat. Not because she is some iconic leader, but because , whether folk like it or not, she is the face of independence . By obliterating that face the independence movement is weakened massively. 
So , when folk wake up one day to Kate Forbes/ Angus Robertson or any other candidate who is in a job totally out their depth they might want to consider how independence moves forward and if joining ranks with the Daily Mail , about a fringe issue , was really worth it. 

Conversely, I wonder if Nicola will look back on the decision to back the trans movement on this issue (who have used the snp as a vehicle for their own agenda,) and wonder if it was really worth it.

The problem here has long been too much gesture politics and certainly not enough focus on the main goal of independence.

[slasher]

13 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

It's awful. Cannot begin to comprehend how awful that must be to experience. Pour souls 

I’ve experienced an earthquake a couple of times. The second occasion was very frightening, I just lay frozen to the spot in my bed waiting for the room to stop shaking. I can only imagine the horror of a building beginning to collapse in on you. There’s very little time to react and make the right decision, terrifying stuff!

[SamP]

29 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

If people put as much effort into campaigning as they did moaning about Nicola Sturgeon/ Alex Salmond/ A N Other leader that they took umbrage with then we would have independence by now. I can guarantee that whoever replaces NS will piss off the same folk within 6 months of being in the job. 

I doubt she will survive this. Too many people supposedly on her side sticking the boot in . She has most definitely dug herself into a hole on this one and her stubborn attitude is not a good look. It has , however, been  blown out of all proportion. 
This is like manna from heaven for unionists. They know she is the only real threat. Not because she is some iconic leader, but because , whether folk like it or not, she is the face of independence . By obliterating that face the independence movement is weakened massively. 
So , when folk wake up one day to Kate Forbes/ Angus Robertson or any other candidate who is in a job totally out their depth they might want to consider how independence moves forward and if joining ranks with the Daily Mail , about a fringe issue , was really worth it. 

100 per cent agree.  I always like to be optimistic but can't see us getting independence.  I said before the last vote there are two things that will stop it.  Too many unionists in Scotland and the fear of change to pensions, mortgages etc etc.  I fear if we do get another vote it would end up worse this time.  

[aaid]

A few years ago I was on holiday in Langkawi, which is an island in the Indian Ocean, just off the coast of Malaysia. 

One lunchtime I was sitting on the balcony of my room - it was a sort of two storey “beach hut” and I felt a mild but sustained shaking.

it turned out there had been an earthquake a couple of hundred miles of so offshore, the concern was obviously about it causing a tsunami.

Fortunately since the disastrous one a few years earlier, they’d much better systems and monitoring in place and obviously it didn’t turn out to be a major problem but it was a very tense few hours before the all clear. 

[TDYER63]

38 minutes ago, slasher said:

Conversely, I wonder if Nicola will look back on the decision to back the trans movement on this issue (who have used the snp as a vehicle for their own agenda,) and wonder if it was really worth it.

The problem here has long been too much gesture politics and certainly not enough focus on the main goal of independence.

She would be obtuse if she didn’t . She has let it go too far. However the circus has , in a large part,  been aided by people who should know better. 

With regards to gesture politics, in any other country those gesture politics would simply be known as ‘running the country’. In either a good or bad way. Its a bloody inconvenience when at the same time trying to obtain independence but someone has to do it. 

I honestly dont know how any government could have secured a referendum with Westminster over ruling any request. Even if polls were at 60 % they would still say no. There is only one reason they dont want a referendum and its the distinct fear of losing. This alone should waken people up to this bizarre union we are stuck in.  

If there is any chance whatsoever of gaining independence we all have to do our bit. I asked on the other thread if anyone was joining this business for Scotland call. Not one person is joining . A bloody call from a prominent independence body that is connected to 134 Yes groups and not one person is joining. Probably interferes with the match or the weekly shop that Saturday.
People need to take a bit of ownership. Politicians are not popular people. Independence will be won by people educating themselves and convincing friends and family. 

 

 

[slasher]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

She would be obtuse if she didn’t . She has let it go too far. However the circus has , in a large part,  been aided by people who should know better. 

With regards to gesture politics, in any other country those gesture politics would simply be known as ‘running the country’. In either a good or bad way. Its a bloody inconvenience when at the same time trying to obtain independence but someone has to do it. 

I honestly dont know how any government could have secured a referendum with Westminster over ruling any request. Even if polls were at 60 % they would still say no. There is only one reason they dont want a referendum and its the distinct fear of losing. This alone should waken people up to this bizarre union we are stuck in.  

If there is any chance whatsoever of gaining independence we all have to do our bit. I asked on the other thread if anyone was joining this business for Scotland call. Not one person is joining . A bloody call from a prominent independence body that is connected to 134 Yes groups and not one person is joining. Probably interferes with the match or the weekly shop that Saturday.
People need to take a bit of ownership. Politicians are not popular people. Independence will be won by people educating themselves and convincing friends and family. 

 

 

I agree with you that people need to take ownership and I saw plenty of that in the last referendum and I think you would again if we secured indyref2. All of that seems so far away just now though. The margin for error on the yes side is small so any mistakes are going to magnified by a compliant media. About 70% of people in this country are entrenched in their views I reckon. That leaves about 20% who won’t vote anyway and a small number who hold the balance. It’s depressing that that’s where we are after all that’s gone on but that’s the reality. For me, a lack of big ideas, injecting real passion into the debate as well as stupid mistakes are all part of the reason we are no further forward.

I posed the question on here years ago about what are we going to do if Westminster just keeps saying no to a second referendum. The answer it seems is fuck all but continue to mitigate as best we can. That’s why you are seeing the frustration of those who should know better, people are disillusioned and frankly I don’t blame them.

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I can guarantee that whoever replaces NS will piss off the same folk within 6 months of being in the job. 

=

I'm not sure that is even remotely true. 

I know plenty of folk who are independence voters (not Alba voters btw), who have voted SNP for years but find it harder and harder to vote for them just now and a lot of that stems from the leadership. 

I'd say i'm getting to the stage where i'll just not vote in the next election - i'd never vote for any of the unionist parties or Alba. 

I would of course vote Yes in any referendum but that is pie in the sky stuff for now. It's sadly miles off and i don't think NS is overly arsed about it staying that way. 

[TDYER63]

17 minutes ago, slasher said:

I agree with you that people need to take ownership and I saw plenty of that in the last referendum and I think you would again if we secured indyref2. All of that seems so far away just now though. The margin for error on the yes side is small so any mistakes are going to magnified by a compliant media. About 70% of people in this country are entrenched in their views I reckon. That leaves about 20% who won’t vote anyway and a small number who hold the balance. It’s depressing that that’s where we are after all that’s gone on but that’s the reality. For me, a lack of big ideas, injecting real passion into the debate as well as stupid mistakes are all part of the reason we are no further forward.

I posed the question on here years ago about what are we going to do if Westminster just keeps saying no to a second referendum. The answer it seems is fuck all but continue to mitigate as best we can. That’s why you are seeing the frustration of those who should know better, people are disillusioned and frankly I don’t blame them.

I agree with this, sadly. And I totally understand the frustration and disillusionment. It gets to us all . And I realise people gave other things going on in their lives this cannot continually take priority. 
However we need to make the most of any opportunity that helps bring fresh ideas to the table and could make independence more appealing to those not convinced. Westminster can only keep saying No for so long but it needs a decent lift to put that pressure on.
I don’t know if this thing next Saturday will unleash anything new but its worth a try and,  as importantly,  its not being run by the SNP.
I have put my name forward, there are only 4 spaces per group so not sure if I will get chosen. I am not social media active and so it may be better someone who is gets a place, but on the other hand I am not entrenched in SNP culture and therefore would perhaps be a bit more open to ideas. 

[TDYER63]

8 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'm not sure that is even remotely true. 

I know plenty of folk who are independence voters (not Alba voters btw), who have voted SNP for years but find it harder and harder to vote for them just now and a lot of that stems from the leadership. 

I'd say i'm getting to the stage where i'll just not vote in the next election - i'd never vote for any of the unionist parties or Alba. 

I would of course vote Yes in any referendum but that is pie in the sky stuff for now. It's sadly miles off and i don't think NS is overly arsed about it staying that way. 

I am saying that as I personally dont think anyone else in the party is up to the job at this point and it would show within 6 months . Oh how I would love to be proven wrong believe me. 

[Orraloon]

53 minutes ago, slasher said:

 

I posed the question on here years ago about what are we going to do if Westminster just keeps saying no to a second referendum. The answer it seems is fuck all but continue to mitigate as best we can. That’s why you are seeing the frustration of those who should know better, people are disillusioned and frankly I don’t blame them.

I don't think there is nearly enough frustration otherwise folk might be doing something about it, other than just mouthing off on the internet.

[aaid]

If this were such a massive mistake and disastrous for the SNP, you’d think ruling parties in the rest of the UK would be running a mile, but no.   Welsh Labour in favour, Scottish Labour in favour, Keir Starmer stares intently at the floor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64548844

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

If people put as much effort into campaigning as they did moaning about Nicola Sturgeon/ Alex Salmond/ A N Other leader that they took umbrage with then we would have independence by now. I can guarantee that whoever replaces NS will piss off the same folk within 6 months of being in the job. 

I doubt she will survive this. Too many people supposedly on her side sticking the boot in . She has most definitely dug herself into a hole on this one and her stubborn attitude is not a good look. It has , however, been  blown out of all proportion. 
This is like manna from heaven for unionists. They know she is the only real threat. Not because she is some iconic leader, but because , whether folk like it or not, she is the face of independence . By obliterating that face the independence movement is weakened massively. 
So , when folk wake up one day to Kate Forbes/ Angus Robertson or any other candidate who is in a job totally out their depth they might want to consider how independence moves forward and if joining ranks with the Daily Mail , about a fringe issue , was really worth it. 

She isn't an iconic leader but she is a very capable politician who knows how to win elections and up until recently enjoyed approval ratings most UK PMs could only dream of.  Before he was neutralised Alex Salmond was the main person they feared but Nicola Sturgeon was - and currently still is - a close second.  Take her out of the equation as well and that's a massive result for the union.  

You're quite right, none of the current leadership alternatives are anywhere near the calibre of Salmond or Sturgeon, and the British establishment and their puppets in HR know that.  Can you imagine Angus Robertson or John Swinney or Humza Yousaf leading an SNP Scottish government, while facing the almost universally hostile media that Nicola Sturgeon has to deal with?  After a couple of years of that I wouldn't fancy their chances of returning to power in the next HR election, never mind winning a referendum! 

She has quite possibly fucked it over this issue and it couldn't have come at a much worse time - or a much better time, if you are a unionist.

[Squirrelhumper]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I am saying that as I personally dont think anyone else in the party is up to the job at this point and it would show within 6 months . Oh how I would love to be proven wrong believe me. 

I'd agree with that. There's not a great deal of talent in Scottish (or UK) politics just now.

Hence why we have have the the likes of Humza as health Secretary. The few talented SNP representatives are at Westminster. Whitford etc.

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd agree with that. There's not a great deal of talent in Scottish (or UK) politics just now.

Hence why we have have the the likes of Humza as health Secretary. The few talented SNP representatives are at Westminster. Whitford etc.

I’m not decrying the undoubted abilities of someone like Philippa Whitford - or any of the WM group of MPs - but it is very easy to, in a lot of ways, to be an opposition MP.  It might be soul destroying at times but you don’t get anywhere close to level of scrutiny and neither are you blamed whenever something goes wrong. 

[Squirrelhumper]

27 minutes ago, scotlad said:

She isn't an iconic leader but she is a very capable politician who knows how to win elections and up until recently enjoyed approval ratings most UK PMs could only dream of.  Before he was neutralised Alex Salmond was the main person they feared but Nicola Sturgeon was - and currently still is - a close second.  Take her out of the equation as well and that's a massive result for the union.  

You're quite right, none of the current leadership alternatives are anywhere near the calibre of Salmond or Sturgeon, and the British establishment and their puppets in HR know that.  Can you imagine Angus Robertson or John Swinney or Humza Yousaf leading an SNP Scottish government, while facing the almost universally hostile media that Nicola Sturgeon has to deal with?  After a couple of years of that I wouldn't fancy their chances of returning to power in the next HR election, never mind winning a referendum! 

She has quite possibly fucked it over this issue and it couldn't have come at a much worse time - or a much better time, if you are a unionist.

No much to disagree with there.

[TDYER63]

17 minutes ago, scotlad said:

She isn't an iconic leader but she is a very capable politician who knows how to win elections and up until recently enjoyed approval ratings most UK PMs could only dream of.  Before he was neutralised Alex Salmond was the main person they feared but Nicola Sturgeon was - and currently still is - a close second.  Take her out of the equation as well and that's a massive result for the union.  

You're quite right, none of the current leadership alternatives are anywhere near the calibre of Salmond or Sturgeon, and the British establishment and their puppets in HR know that.  Can you imagine Angus Robertson or John Swinney or Humza Yousaf leading an SNP Scottish government, while facing the almost universally hostile media that Nicola Sturgeon has to deal with?  After a couple of years of that I wouldn't fancy their chances of returning to power in the next HR election, never mind winning a referendum! 

She has quite possibly fucked it over this issue and it couldn't have come at a much worse time - or a much better time, if you are a unionist.

Totally agree. Any of those names  in that role sends shivers down my spine. I think Scotland been spoilt with Salmond and Sturgeon, in respect of the extra shit they have had to deal with in the role and over and above what any senior UK politician ( perhaps Jeremy Corbyn excepted) had to deal with,  and have no idea what the alternative could bring. The Tories have had a fookin revolving door of inept PM’s but there is no way Scotland will be afforded that luxury. 

NS standing down may provide a temporary  lift amongst the independence movement in as much as it would please her detractors and bring hope for unity , but once reality sinks in it will be a different story completely. Or it could just split the movement completely. 
Dont understand why people cant see this.

What happens over the next few weeks will be important. If she survives this I would hope its a lesson learnt on her behalf in not stoking a fire that doesn’t need stoked. 

[Hertsscot]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

If this were such a massive mistake and disastrous for the SNP, you’d think ruling parties in the rest of the UK would be running a mile, but no.   Welsh Labour in favour, Scottish Labour in favour, Keir Starmer stares intently at the floor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64548844

I'm expecting Labour to win the next GE and as said has noted Keir Starmer has as many problems as Nicola Sturgeon in defining who or what is a woman.  If Labour do win the next GE would it be possible for a Labour UK Government to introduce UK wide legislation similar to that the Scottish Government has proposed? Would it be possible that those who don't vote SNP because of this issue might still find similar legislation coming about anyhow?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Hertsscot

[Ally Bongo]

[Toepoke]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:01 PM, kumnio said:

Just spent 5 minutes watching a few videos on twitter of the earthquakes in Turkey. Absolutely horrific viewing, thousand of people will have been buried alive.

Watching the news report from Diyarbakir where we played in November. Entire tower blocks reduced to rubble 🙁

 

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I'm expecting Labour to win the next GE and as said has noted Keir Starmer has as many problems as Nicola Sturgeon in defining who or what is a woman.  If Labour do win the next GE would it be possible for a Labour UK Government to introduce UK wide legislation similar to that the Scottish Government has proposed? Would it be possible that those who don't vote SNP because of this issue might still find similar legislation coming about anyhow?

Starmer is keeping very quiet about this issue just now, understandably so since he's currently odds-on to win the next election. He'll be keeping a close eye on how it's playing out up here though and I expect the closer he gets to election day the more he'll be asked about it. 

The fact Labour up here voted for the act paints him into a corner a wee bit. If Labour win the next GE with the kind of huge majority that's being predicted then in theory they could get it through. At the moment though, considering how much controversy it's caused up here, I don't think they'll want to go there.