The news thread

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

You are still living in 1980 and probably think it was some sort of utopia too. Teachers doing nothing isn't actually that new, this started around 25 years ago when I was still at school, there was the odd teacher who had no problem intervening but the mid 1990s is when things got tougher for teachers, I know because I was cheeky to some teachers knowing they couldn't do a thing to me.

I can see both sides of this, the schools have to question whether expelling the kid committing an assault should be expelled, can the kids behaviour be improved? I am talking in general terms here not about this specific incident. I would need to read more about this incidentconsidering you are well known for posting hyperbolic shite. 

I’m old enough to have been at school when teachers could still belt you.  Anyone who tells you that it solved anything is lying. 

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

You are still living in 1980 and probably think it was some sort of utopia too. Teachers doing nothing isn't actually that new, this started around 25 years ago when I was still at school, there was the odd teacher who had no problem intervening but the mid 1990s is when things got tougher for teachers, I know because I was cheeky to some teachers knowing they couldn't do a thing to me.

I can see both sides of this, the schools have to question whether expelling the kid committing an assault should be expelled, can the kids behaviour be improved? I am talking in general terms here not about this specific incident. I would need to read more about this incidentconsidering you are well known for posting hyperbolic shite. 

Agree with this, though I would say Malcolm is living in circa 1975 not 1980. The great days when the teachers belted you for simply looking at them sideways and wayward kids still didn’t give a fuck.  

I mentioned on another thread about the teacher who grabbed one of my class mates in primary school by the ear and dragged him to the front of the class as he couldn’t tell the time, at 8-9 yr old. Nothing happened to the teacher. There are extreme case’s everywhere and always have been,  and does not reflect the average , though I do tend to agree that teachers do not have enough authority these days. 

 

[Malcolm]

39 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Agree with this, though I would say Malcolm is living in circa 1975 not 1980. The great days when the teachers belted you for simply looking at them sideways and wayward kids still didn’t give a fuck.  

I mentioned on another thread about the teacher who grabbed one of my class mates in primary school by the ear and dragged him to the front of the class as he couldn’t tell the time, at 8-9 yr old. Nothing happened to the teacher. There are extreme case’s everywhere and always have been,  and does not reflect the average , though I do tend to agree that teachers do not have enough authority these days. 

 

 

Yes, there was the odd sadistic bastard that would belt you for fun but the balance was about right.  There was an air of authority back then that kept the teachers aloof.  Ever since the “hey kids, I’m on your side” brigade got in things have gone to pot.

Vanderarks point about being cheeky to teachers for fun knowing they could do nothing shows what a sad state things were in even back then.  Who would want to be a teacher now? I know I wouldn’t last a week.

I’m not saying very naughty kids should be thrown on the scrap heap with no second chances but we must protect and encourage the majority.

[Malcolm]

For some reason I remember getting smacked with a wooden ruler rather than a belt.

[TDYER63]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

For some reason I remember getting smacked with a wooden ruler rather than a belt.

Aye , I remember that too though you must be even older than me. I was a bit of a goody two shoes though, only got the belt twice. Once the entire class got it from the English teacher as no one would shop the pupil who was taking the piss out of her behind her back.
The other was in history. I absolutely hated history. To make it more enjoyable I would buy 5 penny dainty toffees from the ice cream van at lunchtime and stuff my face during history. I went into a daydream one day and must have been scribbling Tidy Luvs Stevie on the wooden desk and the teacher saw me. He dragged me out to the front of the class and asked me if I would do that to my own furniture at home. I couldn’t answer as my mouth was full of toffee so he belted me. Bassa. 
 

Anyway, sorry to divert . 

[Ally Bongo]

Why would Germany ponder about sending German tanks to Ukraine ..........

If i can see why and the BBC or MSM can't/won't,  we are in big fucking trouble

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Why would Germany ponder about sending German tanks to Ukraine ..........

If i can see why and the BBC or MSM can't/won't,  we are in big fucking trouble

When this all kicked off at first and people were saying that NATO should go In directly, I saw a quote from some German guy saying “Just checking here lads, but are you saying you want our army to go marching into Eastern Europe?”

[scotlad]

3 hours ago, Malcolm said:

kids battering each other has gone on since the beginning of time.  Teachers doing nothing about it is a new thing.  We are far too soft on little neds trying to give them every chance.  That individual should now be in police custody for assault.

 

Absolutely she should, bullying wee sow that she is.  She should also get prosecuted. I'd be ashamed if I raised a child who behaved like that.

What I don't get though is how it is the government's fault.  Has there been some law introduced that forbids teachers from disciplining students, even verbally?

From what I saw it wasn't clear if there was even a teacher in the room.  I remember from my own schooldays all hell breaking loose the second after the teacher set foot outside the classroom - is it possible that that's what's happened here?

Edited January 20, 2023 by scotlad

[Ally Bongo]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

When this all kicked off at first and people were saying that NATO should go In directly, I saw a quote from some German guy saying “Just checking here lads, but are you saying you want our army to go marching into Eastern Europe?”

I see a bell has kinda rang with the NY Times - maybe they read the TAMB 

What a propaganda coup it will be for mad Vlad

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Aye , I remember that too though you must be even older than me. I was a bit of a goody two shoes though, only got the belt twice. Once the entire class got it from the English teacher as no one would shop the pupil who was taking the piss out of her behind her back.
The other was in history. I absolutely hated history. To make it more enjoyable I would buy 5 penny dainty toffees from the ice cream van at lunchtime and stuff my face during history. I went into a daydream one day and must have been scribbling Tidy Luvs Stevie on the wooden desk and the teacher saw me. He dragged me out to the front of the class and asked me if I would do that to my own furniture at home. I couldn’t answer as my mouth was full of toffee so he belted me. Bassa. 
 

Anyway, sorry to divert . 

😂😂😂😂

 

I once got the ruler in primary 4 for stuffing hand towels in the toilet sinks, turning on the taps and flooding the boys toilets….   Although it genuinely wasn’t me but someone grassed me up….  That’s when I realised life wasn’t fair! 😂

[Malcolm]

12 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Absolutely she should, bullying wee sow that she is.  She should also get prosecuted. I'd be ashamed if I raised a child who behaved like that.

What I don't get though is how it is the government's fault.  Has there been some law introduced that forbids teachers from disciplining students, even verbally?

From what I saw it wasn't clear if there was even a teacher in the room.  I remember from my own schooldays all hell breaking loose the second after the teacher set foot outside the classroom - is it possible that that's what's happened here?

I believe (from twitter, so might be rubbish) the teacher was in the room and can be heard intervening verbally at the end when the head kicking was going on. Fights broke out in classrooms when I was a lad but teachers got straight in to intervene, usually teacher from neighbouring classroom brought in too.  Then all hell to pay for the perpetrators.

poor poor girl got a broken jaw… that level of violence was very rare in my school.  Kicking and stamping on folks heads seems to be much more common and should be treated as attempted murder.

If you were the father of the girl that was attacked you would the book thrown at that girl.  She must be expelled and dealt with by the police.

[TDYER63]

12 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

I believe (from twitter, so might be rubbish) the teacher was in the room and can be heard intervening verbally at the end when the head kicking was going on. Fights broke out in classrooms when I was a lad but teachers got straight in to intervene, usually teacher from neighbouring classroom brought in too.  Then all hell to pay for the perpetrators.

poor poor girl got a broken jaw… that level of violence was very rare in my school.  Kicking and stamping on folks heads seems to be much more common and should be treated as attempted murder.

If you were the father of the girl that was attacked you would the book thrown at that girl.  She must be expelled and dealt with by the police.

I really am not sure its any worse these days , I dont know what school you went to but fights like this were not uncommon in my day. There were always thugs bullying and beating up folk. Teachers these days may get less involved due to the chance of being stabbed. They are not being paid to be bouncers. 
The girl must be given the strongest punishment though , it’s absolutely unacceptable. 

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I really am not sure its any worse these days , I dont know what school you went to but fights like this were not uncommon in my day. There were always thugs bullying and beating up folk. Teachers these days may get less involved due to the chance of being stabbed. They are not being paid to be bouncers. 
The girl must be given the strongest punishment though , it’s absolutely unacceptable. 

I've only seen stills in the online newspaper article but as a human being and assuming the teacher was in the room I find it hard to understand why the teacher wouldn't step in front, how could anyone.....not just a teacher sit back and watch someone get kicked in the head like that. 

 

HAs it been confirmed the teacher was in the room?

 

EDIT - a quote from the Sun rag - In the 15-second clip, shocked pupils look on and the attack comes to an end when a teacher enters the classroom and shouts "stop".

Edited January 20, 2023 by vanderark14

[TDYER63]

21 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I've only seen stills in the online newspaper article but as a human being and assuming the teacher was in the room I find it hard to understand why the teacher wouldn't step in front, how could anyone.....not just a teacher sit back and watch someone get kicked in the head like that. 

 

HAs it been confirmed the teacher was in the room?

 

EDIT - a quote from the Sun rag - In the 15-second clip, shocked pupils look on and the attack comes to an end when a teacher enters the classroom and shouts "stop".

I don’t know if the teacher was in the room. I am only going by what I am reading on here. I am saying in general that teachers are less likely to pile in due to other weapons being used. I imagine each teacher and each situation is different. 

 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I don’t know if the teacher was in the room. I am only going by what I am reading on here. I am saying in general that teachers are less likely to pile in due to other weapons being used. I imagine each teacher and each situation is different. 

I think teachers have two basic duties, keep students safe (physically and emotionally) and help them to learn (not just academically but socially as well). Certainly in England safeguarding has been probably the major issue in schools in the last ten or twelve years. Very good schools have failed Ofsted inspections because of safeguarding concerns. 

I'm pretty sure I would have intervened. Certainly in England (in spite of what some pupils argue) you've got every right to intervene physically if you think a student is liable to harm themself or others. Having said that I would be more cautious now than 25 years ago.

I do feel that sometimes police action is appropriate as it is in this assault. I think many teachers throughout the UK feel that not having adequate sanctions doesn't actually do perpetrators or victims or society any good in the long term.

I think both in England and Scotland there has been a move to reduce the number of permanent exclusions. There are well intentioned motives behind that but unfortunately for some young people mainstream education doesn't work and there need to be alternatives. You can't just keep badly behaved, disruptive, even violent, pupils in school no matter what but if they have to be excluded they need high quality provision to address the causes of their behaviour. Sadly, none of that is easy, nor is it cheap.

 

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I think teachers have two basic duties, keep students safe (physically and emotionally) and help them to learn (not just academically but socially as well). Certainly in England safeguarding has been probably the major issue in schools in the last ten or twelve years. Very good schools have failed Ofsted inspections because of safeguarding concerns. 

I'm pretty sure I would have intervened. Certainly in England (in spite of what some pupils argue) you've got every right to intervene physically if you think a student is liable to harm themself or others. Having said that I would be more cautious now than 25 years ago.

I do feel that sometimes police action is appropriate as it is in this assault. I think many teachers throughout the UK feel that not having adequate sanctions doesn't actually do perpetrators or victims or society any good in the long term.

I think both in England and Scotland there has been a move to reduce the number of permanent exclusions. There are well intentioned motives behind that but unfortunately for some young people mainstream education doesn't work and there need to be alternatives. You can't just keep badly behaved, disruptive, even violent, pupils in school no matter what but if they have to be excluded they need high quality provision to address the causes of their behaviour. Sadly, none of that is easy, nor is it cheap.

 

That all seems correct and the way it should be. I am not surprised to hear you say you would intervene, your postings on this  would suggest you are the kind of person who would. And I am certain any decent person would. 

Some  people however  freeze in situations of pressure or violence  rather than react. Twice in my life,  that I can remember, I have had to make a quick choice in dangerous situations and I have been utter shit at making a choice between stepping in or getting help. Not an assault granted but serious situations nonetheless. I have no idea what the situation was in the school, or what the teacher did or didn’t do, but everyone is an expert after the event. Do teachers get any actual ‘do’ s and dont’s ( for want of a better phrase)  on what to do when a pupil is being physically attacked? 

Totally agree with your final  paragraphs too. 
 

 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I have no idea what the situation was in the school, or what the teacher did or didn’t do, but everyone is an expert after the event. 

Do teachers get any actual ‘do’ s and dont’s ( for want of a better phrase)  on what to do when a pupil is being physically attacked? 

I think you're right on your first point. We don't know the circumstances, I've seen people criticise the teacher but looking at that video I couldn't tell where the member of staff was. I've seen pupils criticised for not intervening but as much as you'd like that to happen, that seems very harsh.

I've never had any specific advice about physical assaults other than you can intervene. I guess we always assumed we should. 

I would hope unions and Scottish Government would issue or reissue clear advice to school staff in the light of questions being raised in Parliament.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Hertsscot

[TDYER63]

41 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I think you're right on your first point. We don't know the circumstances, I've seen people criticise the teacher but looking at that video I couldn't tell where the member of staff was. I've seen pupils criticised for not intervening but as much as you'd like that to happen, that seems very harsh.

I've never had any specific advice about physical assaults other than you can intervene. I guess we always assumed we should. 

I would hope unions and Scottish Government would issue or reissue clear advice to school staff in the light of questions being raised in Parliament.

👍

[aaid]

Ann Gloag charged with human trafficking.   How long before someone mentions that her brother used to donate to the SNP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64355631

[exile]

12 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I really am not sure its any worse these days , I dont know what school you went to but fights like this were not uncommon in my day. There were always thugs bullying and beating up folk. 

Beano's Bash Street Kids artist David Sutherland dies

Edited January 21, 2023 by exile

[Hertsscot]

7 hours ago, aaid said:

Ann Gloag charged with human trafficking.   How long before someone mentions that her brother used to donate to the SNP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64355631

Not long, I would suspect.

[dan cake]

Iv no intention of watching children fighting online but just to add an alternative view I witnessed teachers being assaulted by pupils on at least half a dozen occasions when I was at school. “Leathering” a teacher became a badge of honour for the real bams 

[stocky]

9 hours ago, aaid said:

Ann Gloag charged with human trafficking.   How long before someone mentions that her brother used to donate to the SNP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64355631

You've just done it...🤔😉

 

[Kirk]

 

 

 

On 1/19/2023 at 12:04 PM, Malcolm said:

there is good reason why they are raising it.  Previously there were four workers for for every retiree to pay for it, now there is only 1.7 per retiree.  The sums don’t add up.  Either you reduce the number of retirees or you increase the number of workers.

the western world is entering unchartered territory with the dramatic shift in aging population.  

Aw fuck up with this pish. just make everyone work til 85 and keep the tory cunts happy. maybe if they werent pissing money up the wall for the last however many years there would be suitable pension money

[aaid]

21 minutes ago, Kirk said:

 

 

 

Aw fuck up with this pish. just make everyone work til 85 and keep the tory cunts happy. maybe if they werent pissing money up the wall for the last however many years there would be suitable pension money

Average life expectancy is falling across the UK so they’re dealing with it that way.