The news thread

[Hertsscot]

6 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Had Sky News on in the background. They are doing an in depth segment on the developments overnight. Close up of a tunnel entrance which is near the hospital. The expert then casually says, this makes the hospital a legitimate target.

Its things like this that arent even being questioned anymore. A hospital is never a legitimate target. I dont care if Hamas have a HQ on the top floor. You put in special forces to take them out. You cant just bomb the building.

Sorry, it's a bit lengthy but this is from the International Committee of the Red Cross commenting on IHL (International Humanitarian Law). Presumably this is Israel's justification and why they think they are acting legally. Personally I can't see how the actions of the IDF can be deemed proportionate.

Specific protection of medical establishments and units (including hospitals) is the general rule under IHL. Therefore, specific protection to which hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used by a party to the conflict to commit, outside their humanitarian functions, an "act harmful to the enemy". In case of doubt as to whether medical units of establishments are used to commit an "act harmful to the enemy", they should be presumed not to be so used.

The expression "act harmful to the enemy" is not defined under IHL. This body of law merely singles out a few acts expressly recognized as not being harmful to the enemy, such as the carrying or using of individual light weapon in self-defense or defense of wounded and sick; armed guarding of a medical facility; or the presence in a medical facility of sick or wounded combatants no longer taking part in hostilities.

Notwithstanding the lack of an agreed definition, the rationale for a loss of protection is clear. Medical establishments and units enjoy protection because of their function of providing care for the wounded and sick. When they are used to interfere directly or indirectly in military operations, and thereby cause harm to the enemy, the rationale for their specific protection is removed. This would be the case for example if a hospital is used as a base from which to launch an attack; as an observation post to transmit information of military value; as a weapons depot; as a center for liaison with fighting troops; or as a shelter for able-bodied combatants.

What can be considered as an "act harmful to the enemy"?

An act harmful to the enemy may render a medical establishment or unit liable to attack; it may seriously endanger the wounded and sick entrusted to its care; and it may also engender distrust of the work of medical establishments or units in other cases, and thus lessen the protective value of IHL in general.

Furthermore, depending on the circumstances, certain acts harmful to the enemy may amount to a violation of precautionary obligations to protect the wounded and sick, as well as health-care personnel and objects against the effects of attacks or to a violation of the prohibition to use human shield. A concrete example would be the placing of a medical establishment or unit in proximity to a military objective with the intention of shielding it from enemy's military operations.

Does the law set for additional legal requirements to attack a medical unit or establishment used to commit an act harmful to the enemy?

Before carrying out an attack on a medical establishment or unit that has lost its protected status, a warning must be given. Where appropriate, this should include a time limit, which must go unheeded before an attack is permitted. The purpose of issuing a warning is to allow those committing an "act harmful to the enemy" to terminate such act, or – if they persist – to ultimately allow for safe evacuation of the wounded and sick who are not responsible for such conduct and who should not become the victims of it.

Where such a warning has remained unheeded, the enemy is no longer obliged to refrain from interfering with the work of a medical establishment or unit, or to take positive measures to assist it in its work. Even then, humanitarian considerations relating to the welfare of the wounded and sick being cared for in the facility may not be disregarded. They must be spared and, as far as possible, active measures for their safety taken.

This derives from the obligation to respect and protect the wounded and sick as well as the general rules on the conduct of hostilities that apply to attacks on any military objective. Notably, an attacking party remains bound by the principle of proportionality. The military advantage likely to be gained from attacking medical establishments or units that have lost their protected status should be carefully weighed against the humanitarian consequences likely to result from the damage or destruction caused to those facilities: such an attack may have significant incidental second- and third-order effects on the delivery of health care in the short, middle and long-term.

[vanderark14]

I never thought u would say this but England needs labour.....not because he is any good but the likes of bravermen have to be shut down and shut down fast. The stuff she comes out with wouldn't look out of place in early 30s Germany.

 

[StirlingEgg]

28 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I never thought u would say this but England needs labour.....not because he is any good but the likes of bravermen have to be shut down and shut down fast. The stuff she comes out with wouldn't look out of place in early 30s Germany.

 

With every new 'red meat' announcement and additions to the King's speech you wonder if there would come a point where he'd say "I'm not reading that". Daily Mail etc would get hysterical about him not being like his mum and a constitutional crisis would follow as the whole UK house of cards starts to come down. Aaaaahhhh if only... 

[Alibi]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:28 AM, aaid said:

Yes, my point is that a lot of people look at the Tory Cabinet - and they push this themselves - they’ve a brown PM and a brown Home Secretary they can’t be racist, without an underlying understanding of the nuances. 

Yes, not all racism is white people vs brown people.  When I was working in Trinidad 40 years ago, there was a lot of racial tension between the West Indian population and the black population (I assume largely descendants of former slaves).

[aaid]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

I never thought u would say this but England needs labour.....not because he is any good but the likes of bravermen have to be shut down and shut down fast. The stuff she comes out with wouldn't look out of place in early 30s Germany.

 

I know exactly what you mean.  I have no illusions when it comes to Labour in general and Keir Starmer in particular but I find myself thinking the same thing as I did with Trump/Clinton.   Only one of the two can win and for all her many faults one is demonstrably a lot worse than the other.

I won’t be voting Labour, it’s a pointless vote in my constituency.  Perversely - and I never thought I’d say this - but I hope that Theresa May is returned as she’s backing a local project that I’m heavily vested in, I won’t be voting for her though.

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I know exactly what you mean.  I have no illusions when it comes to Labour in general and Keir Starmer in particular but I find myself thinking the same thing as I did with Trump/Clinton.   Only one of the two can win and for all her many faults one is demonstrably a lot worse than the other.

I won’t be voting Labour, it’s a pointless vote in my constituency.  Perversely - and I never thought I’d say this - but I hope that Theresa May is returned as she’s backing a local project that I’m heavily vested in, I won’t be voting for her though.

Same here, I have Damien Hinds in east hampshire, Tory loyal

although I did read Basingstoke is predicted to be Labour for the first time in 100 years

[dan cake]

Can somebody remind me of what century it is 

[Hertsscot]

King's speech seemed to be thin. A Government that has run out of steam.

Just over a year for the SNP to get its act together. Looks like four years of Starmer and then what, Patel, Badenoch, Braverman, Farage, Mordaunt? We need to work together and we need to get out.

[duncan II]

1 hour ago, dan cake said:

Can somebody remind me of what century it is 

21st. You can tell by the fact that you've paused live TV there.

[ger intae them]

😆

[Ally Bongo]

Girls Aloud have reunited to honour the late Sarah Harding

I was doing other things when they were in their pomp and it was only after they broke up i listened to them

I like them and i also fancy the ginger

[Caledonian Craig]

One thing that can only help SNP gain voters is the latest proposed Tory Bill to prevent strikes. Thousands upon thousands of hard workers have the right to fight for better pay, better terms, better conditions and stand up to management bullying etc yet the Tories are trying to stop that. More proof if needed that Tory utopia is setting up a dictatorship.

[Orraloon]

This is more like it. A tiny first step in the right direction.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/second-home-owners-set-to-be-charged-double-council-tax-in-scotland

[aaid]

36 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

This is more like it. A tiny first step in the right direction.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/second-home-owners-set-to-be-charged-double-council-tax-in-scotland

No doubt Reporting Scotland will have a representative from the Association of Scottish Second Home Owners Legal Executive complaining that it will cause economic harm to communities and that people will be buying their second homes in England if this goes through. 

[Ally Bongo]

51 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

This is more like it. A tiny first step in the right direction.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/second-home-owners-set-to-be-charged-double-council-tax-in-scotland

If they are renting it out will the owners not just increase the rent to pay for it ?

[vanderark14]

The statues will be out in force this weekend 😆 

 

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1721633887002952053/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1721633887002952053&currentTweetUser=IndyTom3

[Hertsscot]

8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

One thing that can only help SNP gain voters is the latest proposed Tory Bill to prevent strikes. Thousands upon thousands of hard workers have the right to fight for better pay, better terms, better conditions and stand up to management bullying etc yet the Tories are trying to stop that. More proof if needed that Tory utopia is setting up a dictatorship.

I'm presuming that Labour won't repeal this as they're so frightened of the Mail and Telegraph. 

[aaid]

36 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If they are renting it out will the owners not just increase the rent to pay for it ?

That’s not considered a second house.  

[Ally Bongo]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That’s not considered a second house.  

👍

[Orraloon]

49 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If they are renting it out will the owners not just increase the rent to pay for it ?

"Tiny first step"

[Diamond Scot]

7 hours ago, aaid said:

That’s not considered a second house.  

Every little helps so im certainly not against this however property portfolios is by far the bigger issue.

Imo there should be a sliding scale on SDLT (or whatever they are calling it now) for every additional home a person or company buys regardless of whether the sale price would attract the charge for a primary home. Ie buy a 2nd house for 100k then pay 5k SDLT. Buy a 3rd house and its 10k, 4th house 20k etc. 

Ringfence all this money to build additional affordable housing. That way the situation where something stupid like 2000 rental properties in Edinburgh were owned by 4 people simply wouldnt exist as it wouldnt be worthwhile financially.

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Every little helps so im certainly not against this however property portfolios is by far the bigger issue.

Imo there should be a sliding scale on SDLT (or whatever they are calling it now) for every additional home a person or company buys regardless of whether the sale price would attract the charge for a primary home. Ie buy a 2nd house for 100k then pay 5k SDLT. Buy a 3rd house and its 10k, 4th house 20k etc. 

Ringfence all this money to build additional affordable housing. That way the situation where something stupid like 2000 rental properties in Edinburgh were owned by 4 people simply wouldnt exist as it wouldnt be worthwhile financially.

Ironically this was made worse by deregulation of buy to let during the last time the people's party were in government. Probably to help Tony Blair boost his own portfolio.

 

[StirlingEgg]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/08/suella-braverman-accuses-police-of-double-standards-on-rallies

Is there a phrase for double standards being doubled again?? The feeling that this woman is dying for something to happen is palpable. She even starts going on about Black Lives Matter ffs. These far right folk love conflating about 17 complex issues into one big accusation. 

[vanderark14]

18 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/08/suella-braverman-accuses-police-of-double-standards-on-rallies

Is there a phrase for double standards being doubled again?? The feeling that this woman is dying for something to happen is palpable. She even starts going on about Black Lives Matter ffs. These far right folk love conflating about 17 complex issues into one big accusation. 

The only people agreeing with her are morons like Tommy Robinson and some beer bellied, pavement dancing, white chair throwing middle aged casuals. 

 

[AlfieMoon]

49 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/08/suella-braverman-accuses-police-of-double-standards-on-rallies

Is there a phrase for double standards being doubled again?? The feeling that this woman is dying for something to happen is palpable. She even starts going on about Black Lives Matter ffs. These far right folk love conflating about 17 complex issues into one big accusation. 

She’s now making comments every week that should be a sackable offence. 
 

The fact that she’s not being brought under control just shows that it’s all endorsed by the leadership. A pretty worrying direction from the Tories to see this get continually more extreme.