wee-toon-red Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 33 minutes ago, AndyDD said: Interesting. Don't Fleck, Mclean and to a lesser extent Snodgrass currently play in a league that Cairney was entirely found out in just last season? And I know the rest of the fulham team was poor bar their striker, but even just himself, his ball retention, his passing, his creativity; he was not up to it all season long. I was hoping he would look like he belonged at that level regardless of how the rest of his team got on, but he just didn't. At all. Beware the players who look great in the english first division. Barry Bannan and, most recently, Liam Cooper, teaches us this. Agreed. It's no coincidence that Cairney's back playing, and seemingly playing well enough, now that he's dropped back down a level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 This is probably wrong, but I thought Cairney asked not to be selected a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, kumnio said: This is probably wrong, but I thought Cairney asked not to be selected a while ago. He did, but then this seemed to change because Clarke included him in one of if not both of his last squads. He just didn't include him this time, I guess because he chose Fleck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, wee-toon-red said: Agreed. It's no coincidence that Cairney's back playing, and seemingly playing well enough, now that he's dropped back down a level. I hoped he would do well in the PL. Fulham had a mare of a season and I was under the impression, falsely, that he didn't feature much with them bringing in so many players at the start of last season. He actually had 31 league appearances, probably a few of them off the bench, but didn't really make any impression on the PL. And, notably, with Fulham going down and having to offload a lot of players, no PL side made any move for him. Centre/attacking midfield is also the area we probably have the most strength in depth in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said: I hoped he would do well in the PL. Fulham had a mare of a season and I was under the impression, falsely, that he didn't feature much with them bringing in so many players at the start of last season. He actually had 31 league appearances, probably a few of them off the bench, but didn't really make any impression on the PL. And, notably, with Fulham going down and having to offload a lot of players, no PL side made any move for him. Centre/attacking midfield is also the area we probably have the most strength in depth in too. In the first three games last season he was outstanding. There were a few articles and pieces on MOTD at the time talking about what a player he was. Then he got injured. Then he was benched for a lot of the subsequent games. Add to that the fact that his team were completely transformed and mis-managed I think it's harsh to say he couldn't handle it at EPL level. Edited October 2, 2019 by mrniaboc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 9 hours ago, AndyDD said: Interesting. Don't Fleck, Mclean and to a lesser extent Snodgrass currently play in a league that Cairney was entirely found out in just last season? And I know the rest of the fulham team was poor bar their striker, but even just himself, his ball retention, his passing, his creativity; he was not up to it all season long. I was hoping he would look like he belonged at that level regardless of how the rest of his team got on, but he just didn't. At all. Beware the players who look great in the english first division. Barry Bannan and, most recently, Liam Cooper, teaches us this. Cairney was not "found out" in the Premiership. He had a stop start season resulting in just 24 starts. Love to know how Fleck at 28 has suddenly become a player of international class Interesting fact about Cairney he has an over 90% pass success rate in each of the last four seasons including the one in the Premiership. Are you just looking to make friends by bringing Cooper into it, you've got a lot of information to work with on his "failure" at international level Sounds like you just pick your players on the level they play at with no regard to how they actually perform there. Any way all I said was that he is no worse than the rest of the midfielders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Liam Kelly making his Championship debut for QPR tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Another goal for Chris Martin. 3 in 4 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Andy Robertson scores!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: Andy Robertson scores!! First CL goal for him? Brilliant move. Maybe play him up front when KT is fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, Toepoke said: First CL goal for him? BT have answered that. First Scot to score for Liverpool in Europe since Gary McAllister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McTeeko Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said: Another goal for Chris Martin. 3 in 4 I think. Paterson on the scoresheet too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, McTeeko said: Paterson on the scoresheet too. Not heard anything to suggest he is not a 100% fit but the fact he isn't in the squad is criminal and not because he scored a goal. Jack is a midfielder, Palmer is a left back and O'Donnell just isn't very good. Pretty sure Paterson was our right back in our two best results, indeed performances since Strachan left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 18 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said: Cairney was not "found out" in the Premiership. He had a stop start season resulting in just 24 starts. Love to know how Fleck at 28 has suddenly become a player of international class Interesting fact about Cairney he has an over 90% pass success rate in each of the last four seasons including the one in the Premiership. Are you just looking to make friends by bringing Cooper into it, you've got a lot of information to work with on his "failure" at international level Sounds like you just pick your players on the level they play at with no regard to how they actually perform there. Any way all I said was that he is no worse than the rest of the midfielders I mean, we could quibble over what one would have to do to be 'found out' if looking very good in a lower level but subsequently struggling, badly, to adapt at a higher level (only to then once again return to performing well in the lower level the next season) doesn't fit the label. It seems a fair definition to me. His level appears to be the championship. No shame in that, same goes for a lot of our players. in a 38 game league season, 24 starts isn't all that low, either. More than half. At no point did I say Fleck is international class; he hasn't had a cap yet. I said he is playing better right now as an individual than Cairney did in the same division, Fleck's showing against league leaders and european champions Liverpool at the weekend a case in point. I don't recall Cairney doing as well in any game, but of course time will tell how truly well Fleck, Mclean, mcginn et al really do over the course of the season. In fairness, stats like that can be very misleading. Didn't Mcginn get a 100% rate the other week, largely because he made very few passes? Giving your suggestion that I'd be silly enough to come to this site to look to establish friendships by criticising footballers th e short shrift it deserves, the point about Cooper and guys like Bannan is that being a standout in the english first division does not automatically translate to good performances in a Scotland jersey. Cooper is merely the latest example of someone struggling despite playing well in that particular league. He is by no means the most obvious nor the most sinning, and by all means he may come good for us, but he is the most recent example of that theme. two games is not a huge body of evidence, but it is all the evidence we have of his international performances. I actually don't pick any players, as it happens, but my personal perspective is actually a combination of multiple factors; what level do they play at, how do they play there, what role do they play there and could they play that role or a different role for Scotland, who are we playing and how does that factor into who should play based on what we need, who seems interested and who rises to the occasion. Some of these factors will inevitably have to be weighed up and balanced out to come to a considered position. Actually no that's not what you said, if we're going to be particular. You said that Cairney being in would be more positive. Not much the same or much of a muchness, but more positive. Cairney is a decent option and I think is probably on a level with several members of the squad who did make it. I'd expect him to get a start for celtic, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Kieran Tierney playing in the EL tonight against a quality side, but not fit enough to play for Scotland? If he plays the full game Arsenal medical team really have pulled the wools over Steve Clarke’s Eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 hours ago, AndyDD said: I mean, we could quibble over what one would have to do to be 'found out' if looking very good in a lower level but subsequently struggling, badly, to adapt at a higher level (only to then once again return to performing well in the lower level the next season) doesn't fit the label. It seems a fair definition to me. His level appears to be the championship. No shame in that, same goes for a lot of our players. in a 38 game league season, 24 starts isn't all that low, either. More than half. At no point did I say Fleck is international class; he hasn't had a cap yet. I said he is playing better right now as an individual than Cairney did in the same division, Fleck's showing against league leaders and european champions Liverpool at the weekend a case in point. I don't recall Cairney doing as well in any game, but of course time will tell how truly well Fleck, Mclean, mcginn et al really do over the course of the season. In fairness, stats like that can be very misleading. Didn't Mcginn get a 100% rate the other week, largely because he made very few passes? Giving your suggestion that I'd be silly enough to come to this site to look to establish friendships by criticising footballers th e short shrift it deserves, the point about Cooper and guys like Bannan is that being a standout in the english first division does not automatically translate to good performances in a Scotland jersey. Cooper is merely the latest example of someone struggling despite playing well in that particular league. He is by no means the most obvious nor the most sinning, and by all means he may come good for us, but he is the most recent example of that theme. two games is not a huge body of evidence, but it is all the evidence we have of his international performances. I actually don't pick any players, as it happens, but my personal perspective is actually a combination of multiple factors; what level do they play at, how do they play there, what role do they play there and could they play that role or a different role for Scotland, who are we playing and how does that factor into who should play based on what we need, who seems interested and who rises to the occasion. Some of these factors will inevitably have to be weighed up and balanced out to come to a considered position. Actually no that's not what you said, if we're going to be particular. You said that Cairney being in would be more positive. Not much the same or much of a muchness, but more positive. Cairney is a decent option and I think is probably on a level with several members of the squad who did make it. I'd expect him to get a start for celtic, for example. Cairney is a well above average player in the championship who looked average in the premiership. So far I would say McLean and Fleck have have looked no better than average either but weren't as good as Cairney in the championship We are currently blessed with having two above average midfield players in the EPL in McYominay and McGinn. Regards the pass stats It was me that pointed out that McGinn's were misleading but any thing over 90% in a game is good 90% over a season is very good but 90% over each of the last four seasons is well I don't know what to say about that. Who are the best passers in Europe? He's also had 19 assists over those seasons so it's not just sideways passes More positive was a bit of an overstatement though hard to be positive about any squad selection these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, ElChris04 said: Kieran Tierney playing in the EL tonight against a quality side, but not fit enough to play for Scotland? If he plays the full game Arsenal medical team really have pulled the wools over Steve Clarke’s Eyes. Not sure I would call that the Arsenal first team. He was always going to play tonight it's the European version of the Cariboo cup. It's all part of his return to fitness which is better managed by Arsenal on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Assist for Tierney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeks_mctavish Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Tierney heavily involved in the build up for all 3 goals as Arsenal go 3-0 up. Having an excellent start to the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Good to see Tierney doing well, going to have to find a way to fit Robertson and Tierney in the team. Maybe Tierney at left wing and Fraser at right would be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_OATN Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said: Tierney heavily involved in the build up for all 3 goals as Arsenal go 3-0 up. Having an excellent start to the game Macy says it's the best league in the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Tierney and arsenal need to be told to fuck off. Either he’s fit enough to be assessed by the national doctors or he’s not. Get him to fuck and never invite him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeks_mctavish Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, philip_OATN said: Macy says it's the best league in the world! The Belgian league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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