er yir macaroon Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: A loan move would be good, especially if he isnt going to get much minutes in the epl. A move to somewhere like rangers or an English championship side would probably help his development. Regular game time is needed for his development. He already has minutes in the EPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab The Crab Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said: A loan move would be good, especially if he isnt going to get much minutes in the epl. A move to somewhere like rangers or an English championship side would probably help his development. Regular game time is needed for his development. I’m not sure I agree, fair enough if he was at a Southampton for example but he’s arbitrary Chelsea getting game time and learning from some pretty amazing coaches so I think he’s in the best place right on for an 18 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: Staying as far away from the Scottish leagues as humanly possible would be the best thing for his development, with keeping clear of the English championship the next best thing. If a lower end English premiership team isn't likely then going abroad would be best if he has to go on loan somewhere. Whys that, it's done plenty players alot of good to get game time in the spl or English championship. The likes of christie, ajer and maddison and many more have benefitted from spl football and same goes with English championship. Just look at Tammy Abraham and maupay. It's a big jump going to a foreign country at 18 with a different language to learn. A decent English championship team or someone like Aberdeen would allow him to get game time unless he gets serious game time at Chelsea which I can't see tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said: He already has minutes in the EPL. What like 10mins. Just because a young player gets a few mins in the first team of top 6 side doesn't mean he's too good to go out on loan. Tammy Abraham went out on loan to the English championship before getting a proper chance at Chelsea and now he's flying. People need to calm down about gilmour, he's played about 10mins epl and one start against Grimsby in a competition that epl teams play kids in. Look at donald love, he played a few games for united and now he struggles in the lower leagues. I am willing to bet gilmour gets less than 150mins in the epl between now and January. If he goes out on loan he could get 15 or more starts instead of sitting on the bench every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 12 hours ago, mrniaboc said: Just look here https://twitter.com/search?q=billy gilmour&s=09. It's abundantly clear he's been impressive this evening. Not just random fans getting excited about a young player. That's the who scored stats minus the four key pass's he made that could have resulted in goals. I was aware of them when I posted but one or two on here find stats boring and irrelevant. So I left it to some one else. Thank you. Stats of course don't measure composure on the ball and how vocal he is on the pitch and a dozen other things but combined with what people actually saw it means he must have played well. By the sounds of things he does sound like a captain in the making. The fact that he's not an attacking player makes all the positive tweets even more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Whys that, it's done plenty players alot of good to get game time in the spl or English championship. The likes of christie, ajer and maddison and many more have benefitted from spl football and same goes with English championship. Just look at Tammy Abraham and maupay. It's a big jump going to a foreign country at 18 with a different language to learn. A decent English championship team or someone like Aberdeen would allow him to get game time unless he gets serious game time at Chelsea which I can't see tbh. Scottish football is garbage and so is the English championship. At 18 he'll learn more spending a full season training with the Chelsea first team than he would going on loan to play hoofball in either of those leagues. He's also very slight still and there aren't many managers in either of those leagues who will give him enough game time to get up to speed physically. There's plenty time for him yet so staying at Chelsea for another year before going on loan won't do him any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: What like 10mins. Just because a young player gets a few mins in the first team of top 6 side doesn't mean he's too good to go out on loan. Tammy Abraham went out on loan to the English championship before getting a proper chance at Chelsea and now he's flying. People need to calm down about gilmour, he's played about 10mins epl and one start against Grimsby in a competition that epl teams play kids in. Look at donald love, he played a few games for united and now he struggles in the lower leagues. I am willing to bet gilmour gets less than 150mins in the epl between now and January. If he goes out on loan he could get 15 or more starts instead of sitting on the bench every week. I would say that the position and style of player he is, training at Cheasea is better than playing along side inferior players. Can't see him learning any thing in Scotland although Chelsea could cherry pick a midfield in the championship that would suit his development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: Scottish football is garbage and so is the English championship. At 18 he'll learn more spending a full season training with the Chelsea first team than he would going on loan to play hoofball in either of those leagues. He's also very slight still and there aren't many managers in either of those leagues who will give him enough game time to get up to speed physically. There's plenty time for him yet so staying at Chelsea for another year before going on loan won't do him any harm. He will learn much more playing regular football than training at Chelsea, have you ever watched the u23 games in England. It's very poor most of the time. If you look at alot of Chelseas under 23 players very few will make it to the first team. Rubben sammut was the captain of the Chelsea u23s and he couldn't make an impact at Falkirk in the Scottish championship. English championship isnt that bad a level especially for an 18 year old. If you think sitting on the bench from now until January because Chelsea have a transfer ban is good for gilmours development then I would have to disagree. Chances are he won't play much more than 100mins between now and January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 58 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: He will learn much more playing regular football than training at Chelsea, have you ever watched the u23 games in England. It's very poor most of the time. If you look at alot of Chelseas under 23 players very few will make it to the first team. Rubben sammut was the captain of the Chelsea u23s and he couldn't make an impact at Falkirk in the Scottish championship. English championship isnt that bad a level especially for an 18 year old. If you think sitting on the bench from now until January because Chelsea have a transfer ban is good for gilmours development then I would have to disagree. Chances are he won't play much more than 100mins between now and January. He's 18. If he was 20 and struggling for a game I might worry but he's still very much a kid and has plenty time on his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 If Gilmour wasn't on the fringes of the first team and getting rave reviews, then he'd be getting sent out on loan. Why on earth would they discard him, especially with a transfer ban, when they can (and are) utilising him in the first team. Training with world class players every day is far better than getting game time in a lower league. Some players benefit from loan moves. Either because they need more time to develop, or the timing wasn't right for them to break through e.g Callum McGregor. But James Forrest never went on loan and it did him no harm. Some players are ready sooner than others, and it seems like Gilmour is very close to it. We have some player on our hands, and Chelsea know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) . 3 hours ago, Tartan blood said: If Gilmour wasn't on the fringes of the first team and getting rave reviews, then he'd be getting sent out on loan. Why on earth would they discard him, especially with a transfer ban, when they can (and are) utilising him in the first team. Training with world class players every day is far better than getting game time in a lower league. Some players benefit from loan moves. Either because they need more time to develop, or the timing wasn't right for them to break through e.g Callum McGregor. But James Forrest never went on loan and it did him no harm. Some players are ready sooner than others, and it seems like Gilmour is very close to it. We have some player on our hands, and Chelsea know it. Let's calm down a second, the guy has played less than 10mins epl and now he's too good to play in the English championship to get some experience. Lots of players on the fringe of the first team squads get placed out on loan so I don't understand your point there. You would think we would learn to be more conservative in our hopes as we have had plenty of false dawns. Personally I would prefer he get experience out on loan at somewhere like rangers or an English championship side rather than spend the season on the bench at Chelsea which tbh is partly down the transfer ban that he's even there. He's not done anything yet for us to be getting excited about and we should let things develop without making out he's going to be some massive superstar. If he gets a few more chances in the first team then I agree with you but if he's not getting any game time come January then he's better going on loan to a championship team. Edited September 26, 2019 by mccaughey85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Let's calm down a second, the guy has played less than 10mins epl and now he's too good to play in the English championship to get some experience. You would think we would learn to be more conservative in our hopes as we have had plenty of false dawns. Personally I would prefer he get experience out on loan at somewhere like rangers or an English championship side rather than spend the season on the bench at Chelsea which tbh is partly down the transfer ban that he's even there. He's not done anything yet for us to be getting excited about and we should let things develop without making out he's going to be some massive superstar. Your right with what you are saying but the bottom line is that the best players never go out on loan. We are getting a bit silly on here thinking he is a first team player on the basis of one competitive start,against weak opposition think Charlie Gilmour, Fraser Hornby if that is all you need. Cant say for sure but is EPL experience consists of sitting on the bench twice and 10 minutes play. But the difference is he looks miles better than the leagues, cups and international levels he has played at. Reminds me of Barry Ferguson as a teenager, to use the old cliche "a Man among Boys" McTominay never went on loan either but I think that was down to the fact he could play in about six different positions than anything else. Edited September 26, 2019 by ceudmilefailte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWMM82 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I understand everyone playing it down....but for the first time in, I would say, DECADES we have a potentially world class player coming through. You can throw in names like Feruz, Gauld etc but for one reason or another they were never going to reach the very top. Gilmour is different, he wants to be the best and will work his wee socks off to get there. Some Chelsea fans are already claiming he is a better footballer than Barkley and Jorginho who are very good players in their own right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 My thoughts on Gilmour is that he is now ready to play first team football somewhere. He is the type who continually needs to be tested. He's too good for Chelsea u23s and has trained with the top players in the first team for a while now so in usual circumstances the obvious next step is a loan to play competitive football at a high level, but given Chelseas situation it may be worthwhile hanging around for a season. He is clearly far too good for League Two which is what Grimsby are and probably far too good for League 1 as well. A side like Lampards Derby side last season would probably have been perfect for him just now , but I wouldn't actually be surprised if he breaks into Chelseas first team this season. Lampards clearly likes him and the boy is just really good tbh. With Chelseas transfer ban there could be a lot more opportunities for him.. And he just may well take them. Hang around till the end of the season I say and then see where he's at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said: Your right with what you are saying but the bottom line is that the best players never go out on loan. We are getting a bit silly on here thinking he is a first team player on the basis of one competitive start,against weak opposition think Charlie Gilmour, Fraser Hornby if that is all you need. Cant say for sure but is EPL experience consists of sitting on the bench twice and 10 minutes play. But the difference is he looks miles better than the leagues, cups and international levels he has played at. Reminds me of Barry Ferguson as a teenager, to use the old cliche "a Man among Boys" McTominay never went on loan either but I think that was down to the fact he could play in about six different positions than anything else. Absolute pish. Tonnes of the best players go out on loan, especially nowadays. Gilmour though doesn’t need to as he’s already in and around their first team squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Absolute pish. Tonnes of the best players go out on loan, especially nowadays. Gilmour though doesn’t need to as he’s already in and around their first team squad. Name some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Absolute pish. Tonnes of the best players go out on loan, especially nowadays. Gilmour though doesn’t need to as he’s already in and around their first team squad. There's been loads of players who have been on the fringes of the first team squad but had to go out on loan to serious game time and experience. Ross mccrorie and Glenn Middleton are perfect examples, both players have had first team appearances for rangers but Gerrard and the club have felt they would benefit from playing regularly so they can get better. Ppl are getting seriously carried away with gilmour getting subbed on for literally 9mins against Sheffield United as if he's suddenly a superstar who will be starting games every week for Chelsea. A loan move would benefit him if he's not going to be regularly getting mins in games for Chelsea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Absolute pish. Tonnes of the best players go out on loan, especially nowadays. Gilmour though doesn’t need to as he’s already in and around their first team squad. Mind you it does depend on your definition of Tonnes and who the best players are. And as your contributions on here are mostly "absolute pish" your definition of Tonnes will have no percentage value so basically mean nothing and your idea of the "best players" will be based on some TV highlight and the belief that we still have a football league in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, bazmidd said: My thoughts on Gilmour is that he is now ready to play first team football somewhere. He is the type who continually needs to be tested. He's too good for Chelsea u23s and has trained with the top players in the first team for a while now so in usual circumstances the obvious next step is a loan to play competitive football at a high level, but given Chelseas situation it may be worthwhile hanging around for a season. He is clearly far too good for League Two which is what Grimsby are and probably far too good for League 1 as well. A side like Lampards Derby side last season would probably have been perfect for him just now , but I wouldn't actually be surprised if he breaks into Chelseas first team this season. Lampards clearly likes him and the boy is just really good tbh. With Chelseas transfer ban there could be a lot more opportunities for him.. And he just may well take them. Hang around till the end of the season I say and then see where he's at. Yeh I agree with pretty much all of that. I reckon gilmour might get some game time at Chelsea but theres no harm in a loan move especially if he doesn't play much. It's going to be interesting to see how much he plays between now and January as that will give us an indication on wether Chelsea want to fast track him into being a first team starter. Usually you have to be a an absolute wonderkid to get into a top side like Chelsea at the age of 18 and obviously he will have to perform well when he gets his chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Just now, mccaughey85 said: There's been loads of players who have been on the fringes of the first team squad but had to go out on loan to serious game time and experience. Ross mccrorie and Glenn Middleton are perfect examples, both players have had first team appearances for rangers but Gerrard and the club have felt they would benefit from playing regularly so they can get better. Ppl are getting seriously carried away with gilmour getting subbed on for literally 9mins against Sheffield United as if he's suddenly a superstar who will be starting games every week for Chelsea. A loan move would benefit him if he's not going to be regularly getting mins in games for Chelsea. Are either of the loans you mention going to do any thing other than allow the players mentioned fulfill what must be limited ability. Or is Gerrard a total idiot and cant see how limited his current squad is. Bar a move to a decent team in a top quality league (like De Bruyne at Werder Bemen) there is little point in decent players going on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 23 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said: Harvey St Clair is making his first competitive start for Killie tonight! Great to see. Future of Scotland’s midfield. How did he play? He took a gamble going to Italy but will be interesting to see how he looks here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlueScot Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said: Name some Well in the EPL you could say Kane, Beckham, Maddison, Alli, Terry.... If you are looking at Scotland you can pick Christie and McGregor Not sure about abroad. Might have missed your point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 On Burke watch. Starting for Alaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said: Well in the EPL you could say Kane, Beckham, Maddison, Alli, Terry.... If you are looking at Scotland you can pick Christie and McGregor Not sure about abroad. Might have missed your point though. Your right plenty have. Knee jerk reaction from me when replied to with a sentence that starts withe the words "utter pish" Personally though I have always thought that if you are good enough you will break through at your club and progress from there. But if it's good enough for Kane and De Bruyne it' s good enough for any one. Far more players never go out on loan but progress from one level to the next or the likes of Sterling or Messi start at the top and stay there. Or in Scotland Tierney and Forrest I would say that the majority of players sent out on loan never make it but then probably never would have any way Most players still rise from one level to the next like Robertson and McGinn . Guess it's kind off hard when your stating point is Chelsea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: On Burke watch. Starting for Alaves. Playing on the left side of midfield , thought he was a right sided player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.