ErsatzThistle Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ger intae them said: Said it many times, but I think every international manager should be from the nation their managing.... if not, it's just an extension of the modern "money rules / sky TV / scottish kids with Barcelona tops" ...... all about how big yer bank balance is. It's got hee-haw to do with xenophobia... that accusation is pure daft. Some nations have trouble selecting from small pools of players let alone the even smaller pool of managers. And I suggest you look at the history of Europe, South America and Africa's national teams. The Netherlands for example have had thirteen English managers, five Austrians, one Romanian and one Czech and this was a long, long time before Sky TV. Belgium has had three English, two Scots, two Hungarians and one each from Spain, the Netherlands, Austria. Look at Norway and Denmark's managerial history too. Does that somehow blacken their history and achievements that they quite sensibly employed foreigners when there was no worthwhile native candidate ? 11 minutes ago, Shaun said: Allan Mannus thinks Michael O'Neill may take a club job next and I actually agree, so its either NI for another campaign or a club job. So that's Allardyce categorically saying no and Eck, Moyes, Lambert and now O'Neill saying its club football ahead of International for their next job. So at the moment that just leaves Prandelli. I didn't say Malky Mackay because I still think he's continuing his performance director role after the friendly against Holland. The Record never offered any proof that he was interested. I think they just made that up. 12 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: You seem to be a big fan of tarring everyone with the same brush. It is possible to want a Scottish manager for the Scottish national team without being xenophobic even if you don’t think that’s possible. The same way that it’s possible to only want Scots to play for Scotland without being xenophobic. The definition of what being Scottish is in terms of football nationality is set out by FIFA and the agreement we have with the other home nations. It’s actually pretty straightforward. No, it's narrow minded, stupid and insular to want to limit ourselves to mediocre native non-entities when the rules allow us to cast our net wide around the world. The argument of of wanting "Scots to play for Scotland" still divides opinion on just who is a Scot which brings me conveniently onto the next point. There's just such a wide range of opinions on here about FIFA's eligibility rules and the Home Nations schooling agreement that it's impossible to pin down what exactly a Scot is. 12 minutes ago, Paulo2576 said: Parent rule matey. That's all I ask. So on the face of it I'm absolutely fine with Matt Ritchie. how do you know they want a good old boy who'll stick to the old ways? I doubt very much the people who would want a Scottish manager want it for that reason. I suspect it's because they want someone connected to our country and certainly not because they "have a fear or dislike of people from other countries ", (that's the definition of xenophobia by the way). You just backed up my argument right there. Idiots suspect a non-Scot will upset the players with new fangled attitudes to coaching, will resist playing "guid old fashioned mans fitba" which translates as hoofball pish, and drop their favourite but chronically under performing players - that a Scottish manager terrified of the media would never do. Plenty of other countries have employed national team managers who had zero connection tot hem and did just fine. Edited October 15, 2017 by ErsatzThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: Some nations have trouble selecting from small pools of players let alone the even smaller pool of managers. And I suggest you look at the history of Europe, South America and Africa's national teams. The Netherlands for example have had thirteen English managers, five Austrians, one Romanian and one Czech and this was a long, long time before Sky TV. Belgium has had three English, two Scots, two Hungarians and one each from Spain, the Netherlands, Austria. Look at Norway and Denmark's managerial history too. Does that somehow blacken their history and achievements that they quite sensibly employed foreigners when there was no worthwhile native candidate ? The Record never offered any proof that he was interested. I think they just made that up. No, it's narrow minded, stupid and insular to want to limit ourselves to mediocre native non-entities when the rules allow us to cast our net wide around the world. The argument of of wanting "Scots to play for Scotland" still divides opinion on just who is a Scot which brings me conveniently onto the next point. There's just such a wide range of opinions on here about FIFA's eligibility rules and the Home Nations schooling agreement that it's impossible to pin down what exactly a Scot is. You just backed up my argument right there. Idiots suspect a non-Scot will upset the players with new fangled attitudes to coaching, will resist playing "guid old fashioned mans fitba" which translates as hoofball pish, and drop their favourite but chronically under performing players - that a Scottish manager terrified of the media would never do. Plenty of other countries have employed national team managers who had zero connection tot hem and did just fine. So if someone doesn’t agree with you they are ‘narrow minded’ and ‘stupid’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) The Dutch have had a Dutch manager for the last 40 years The Belgians have had a Belgian manager for the last 60 years with the exception being Advocaat for a year and Martinez for the last 2 Germany have had a German manager since the International team's inception France have had a French manager since the International teams's inception with the exception being Sid Kimpton 1934-1936 and Stefan Kovacs 1973-1975 Spain have had a Spanish manager (either born in Spain or dual nationality) since the International teams inception Norway have had a Norwegian (or Nordic area) manager since the International teams inception with the exceptions being Ron Lewin 1956-1957 and George Curtis 1972-1974 Denmark have had a Danish (or Nordic area) manager since the International teams inception with the exceptions being Charlie Williams 1908-1910 and Sepp Piontek 1979-1990 (From Germany which borders Denmark) Scotland have had a Scottish manager since the International teams inception with the exception being Berti Vogts 2002-2004 This puts into perspective the statement of "Plenty of other countries have employed National Team managers who had zero connection with them and did just fine" The point being - it goes against the grain and in most cases there is some connection Berti had no connection with Scotland I also believe the only international team to win a major tournament with a foreign manager is Greece Edited October 15, 2017 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris182 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Saint4805 said: Calm down mate. I was following on from the guy a couple of posts up who said he wouldn't mind if we appointing someone English. That tone wasn't intended, just a statement of fact ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said: The Dutch have had a Dutch manager for the last 40 years The Belgians have had a Belgian manager for the last 60 years with the exception being Advocaat for a year and Martinez for the last 2 Germany have had a German manager since the International team's inception France have had a French manager since the International teams's inception with the exception being Sid Kimpton 1934-1936 and Stefan Kovacs 1973-1975 Spain have had a Spanish manager (either born in Spain or dual nationality) since the International teams inception Norway have had a Norwegian (or Nordic area) manager since the International teams inception with the exceptions being Ron Lewin 1956-1957 and George Curtis 1972-1974 Denmark have had a Danish (or Nordic area) manager since the International teams inception with the exceptions being Charlie Williams 1908-1910 and Sepp Piontek 1979-1990 (From Germany which borders Denmark) Scotland have had a Scottish manager since the International teams inception with the exception being Berti Vogts 2002-2004 This puts into perspective the statement of "Plenty of other countries have employed National Team managers who had zero connection with them and did just fine" The point being - it goes against the grain and in most cases there is some connection Berti had no connection with Scotland I also believe the only international team to win a major tournament with a foreign manager is Greece Australia, Japan, USA, Mexico, England, and many more national teams have qualified under both domestic and foreign management. If its good enough for teams competing at the highest level, it should be good enough for us. I cant be arsed googling others, but Id say it perfectly refutes this. Quote This puts into perspective the statement of "Plenty of other countries have employed National Team managers who had zero connection with them and did just fine" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 8 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: Some nations have trouble selecting from small pools of players let alone the even smaller pool of managers. And I suggest you look at the history of Europe, South America and Africa's national teams. The Netherlands for example have had thirteen English managers, five Austrians, one Romanian and one Czech and this was a long, long time before Sky TV. Belgium has had three English, two Scots, two Hungarians and one each from Spain, the Netherlands, Austria. Look at Norway and Denmark's managerial history too. Does that somehow blacken their history and achievements that they quite sensibly employed foreigners when there was no worthwhile native candidate ? The Record never offered any proof that he was interested. I think they just made that up. No, it's narrow minded, stupid and insular to want to limit ourselves to mediocre native non-entities when the rules allow us to cast our net wide around the world. The argument of of wanting "Scots to play for Scotland" still divides opinion on just who is a Scot which brings me conveniently onto the next point. There's just such a wide range of opinions on here about FIFA's eligibility rules and the Home Nations schooling agreement that it's impossible to pin down what exactly a Scot is. You just backed up my argument right there. Idiots suspect a non-Scot will upset the players with new fangled attitudes to coaching, will resist playing "guid old fashioned mans fitba" which translates as hoofball pish, and drop their favourite but chronically under performing players - that a Scottish manager terrified of the media would never do. Plenty of other countries have employed national team managers who had zero connection tot hem and did just fine. For the record I’m ok with a foreign manager. The problem here is you are taking other people’s opinions and boxing them into what you believe them to be and not necessarily what they are. Look at your posts, they are mostly made up of you telling us why people don’t want a foreign manager, not based on what they’ve said but instead what you think they mean and what suits your argument. And then of course you bring out your xenophobia nonsense at the slightest hint that someone might prefer us sticking to a Scottish manager. That’s ludicrous. This is international football, it’s perfectly ok for people to want their country to be represented by their fellow countrymen. That in no way makes them a xenophobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 8 hours ago, kumnio said: I cant be arsed googling others, but Id say it perfectly refutes this. How can you refute a perspective which still stands There were reasons why Australia, Japan and USA needed foreign managers to improve beyond their joke statuses Football is not their national game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said: How can you refute a perspective which still stands There were reasons why Australia, Japan and USA needed foreign managers to improve beyond their joke statuses Football is not their national game You don't think going more than 20 years without an appearance at a major finals indicates we've got a bit of a joke status ourselves? I'd say it's high time we started looking to other countries for ideas and inspiration and if that includes a foreign coach for the national team then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazziessc Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: You don't think going more than 20 years without an appearance at a major finals indicates we've got a bit of a joke status ourselves? I'd say it's high time we started looking to other countries for ideas and inspiration and if that includes a foreign coach for the national team then so be it. Personally, I'll be absolutely flabbergasted if we don't go foreign. The Scottish alternatives are very uninspiring. Even going back to appointing Strachan, he was the one the majority of fans wanted at the time and if I recall correctly he was in the frame with the same names mentioned at the minute (Smith, McLeish et al) Edited October 16, 2017 by Mazziessc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: How can you refute a perspective which still stands There were reasons why Australia, Japan and USA needed foreign managers to improve beyond their joke statuses Football is not their national game We’re more of a joke than these countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: We’re more of a joke than these countries. Sadly, absolutely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazziessc Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/14/new-scotland-manager-must-prioritisemaking-headway-inaugural/ Interesting piece here, Regan's comments about "income" worry me. If he thinks cash inflow will be low, perhaps money spent on a new gaffer will also be low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDange Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I don't think it would happen but I'd like to see them go "baw deep" and take a risk on a well known figure like Jurgen Klinsmann with a current SPL manager on the coaching staff, similar to what Stuart McCall was doing when he was on Strachan's team and managing Motherwell. History and experience isn't everything. Berti Vogts had a very impressive CV when he came to Hampden: Almost 100 international caps World Cup winner as a player Managed Germany to EURO 96 success. I feel however the SFA will go for a safe (cheap) option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, McDange said: I don't think it would happen but I'd like to see them go "baw deep" and take a risk on a well known figure like Jurgen Klinsmann with a current SPL manager on the coaching staff, similar to what Stuart McCall was doing when he was on Strachan's team and managing Motherwell. History and experience isn't everything. Berti Vogts had a very impressive CV when he came to Hampden: Almost 100 international caps World Cup winner as a player Managed Germany to EURO 96 success. I feel however the SFA will go for a safe (cheap) option. I've no issue with a foreign manager but you weaken your argument with Klinsmann who's managerial record isn't exactly stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Mazziessc said: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/14/new-scotland-manager-must-prioritisemaking-headway-inaugural/ Interesting piece here, Regan's comments about "income" worry me. If he thinks cash inflow will be low, perhaps money spent on a new gaffer will also be low. Is there still people that think the SFA would pay top dollar for a manager ? This is just Regan laying the groundwork for those that maybe did Remember - with the SFA it's all about the SFA They really don't believe in managers and if they could get their way would go back to their committee picking the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 The more I think about it the more I fancy John Collins to do a job He's unnatached so he'll be cheap, he's based in Scotland and knows the Scottish game inside out. He's also got foreign experience, both managerial and as a player. He wasn't afraid to chop and change things while at Hibs, granted not always for the better but he was young and new in the managerial game plus he was working alongside Tommy Craig so that explains that. He'll get the ball on deck and play fast, free-flowing, attractive and attacking football He'd most definitely do what most people on here want in a manager; try new young players and young players responded well to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 hours ago, McDange said: I don't think it would happen but I'd like to see them go "baw deep" and take a risk on a well known figure like Jurgen Klinsmann with a current SPL manager on the coaching staff, similar to what Stuart McCall was doing when he was on Strachan's team and managing Motherwell. History and experience isn't everything. Berti Vogts had a very impressive CV when he came to Hampden: Almost 100 international caps World Cup winner as a player Managed Germany to EURO 96 success. I feel however the SFA will go for a safe (cheap) option. Steady on. Does Jurgen know about this? Are the SFA going to buy him dinner first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: The more I think about it the more I fancy John Collins to do a job He's unnatached so he'll be cheap, he's based in Scotland and knows the Scottish game inside out. He's also got foreign experience, both managerial and as a player. He wasn't afraid to chop and change things while at Hibs, granted not always for the better but he was young and new in the managerial game plus he was working alongside Tommy Craig so that explains that. He'll get the ball on deck and play fast, free-flowing, attractive and attacking football He'd most definitely do what most people on here want in a manager; try new young players and young players responded well to him I don’t think this would be a popular choice but I can see the SFA going for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab The Crab Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: The more I think about it the more I fancy John Collins to do a job He's unnatached so he'll be cheap, he's based in Scotland and knows the Scottish game inside out. He's also got foreign experience, both managerial and as a player. He wasn't afraid to chop and change things while at Hibs, granted not always for the better but he was young and new in the managerial game plus he was working alongside Tommy Craig so that explains that. He'll get the ball on deck and play fast, free-flowing, attractive and attacking football He'd most definitely do what most people on here want in a manager; try new young players and young players responded well to him I’d be happy with him, he’s anything but popular but the guy is a winner. Also, his hair hasn’t moved since he scored that penalty against Brazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Collins is a terrible shout really hope hes nowhere near it. Absolte of a guy too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint4805 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I'm also very sceptical about Collins. His short spell at Hibs was a complete train wreck by all accounts. A great player doesn't translate into a great manager. He's way down in the pecking order IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 21 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: The more I think about it the more I fancy John Collins to do a job He's unnatached so he'll be cheap, he's based in Scotland and knows the Scottish game inside out. He's also got foreign experience, both managerial and as a player. He wasn't afraid to chop and change things while at Hibs, granted not always for the better but he was young and new in the managerial game plus he was working alongside Tommy Craig so that explains that. He'll get the ball on deck and play fast, free-flowing, attractive and attacking football He'd most definitely do what most people on here want in a manager; try new young players and young players responded well to him 23 hours ago, Mazziessc said: Personally, I'll be absolutely flabbergasted if we don't go foreign. The Scottish alternatives are very uninspiring. Even going back to appointing Strachan, he was the one the majority of fans wanted at the time and if I recall correctly he was in the frame with the same names mentioned at the minute (Smith, McLeish et al) Why was McLeish whoring himself about Hampden yesterday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Flora MaDonald said: Why was McLeish whoring himself about Hampden yesterday? Why do you think? "Geeza job." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 14 hours ago, Saint4805 said: I'm also very sceptical about Collins. His short spell at Hibs was a complete train wreck by all accounts. A great player doesn't translate into a great manager. He's way down in the pecking order IMHO. yeh pumping killie 5-1 in the league cup final was a real low for hibs fans utter cock of a man tho unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, dan cake said: yeh pumping killie 5-1 in the league cup final was a real low for hibs fans utter cock of a man tho unfortunately I used to think that too; however, met him at Loch Lomond Golf Club, and a nicer man you could not meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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