New Council Tax proposals

[Regenmann]

To continue taxing people at 40% from a threshold of £43,001 is not on - someone earning between £43,001 and £50,000 is hardly a 'high earner' - especially when the services they receive in return are appalling (friend's father spent 13 hours on a trolley in a corridor at QEUH recently) - this threshold freeze was effectively dictated by a party that received 130,000 votes!

[Orraloon]

31 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

  Tories saying they were taxing too much, Labour too little.

 

Must be getting it just about right then.

[TDYER63]

11 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

To continue taxing people at 40% from a threshold of £43,001 is not on - someone earning between £43,001 and £50,000 is hardly a 'high earner' - especially when the services they receive in return are appalling (friend's father spent 13 hours on a trolley in a corridor at QEUH recently) - this threshold freeze was effectively dictated by a party that received 130,000 votes!

Is the average wage in Scotland not something like £25k? I would say £43k is distinctly higher if so. I am in the fortunate position to be on a decent salary and have no issue with the taxing band, no matter what party brought it in.  I am unlikely to starve and will still be able to pay the gas bill.  

   

[Orraloon]

26 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

To continue taxing people at 40% from a threshold of £43,001 is not on - someone earning between £43,001 and £50,000 is hardly a 'high earner' - especially when the services they receive in return are appalling (friend's father spent 13 hours on a trolley in a corridor at QEUH recently) - this threshold freeze was effectively dictated by a party that received 130,000 votes!

It's only about £300 a year. Anybody on that sort of money can afford that. If you are making that kind of money your heading towards twice the average wage. And you wont be paying any more than before. You're just not getting the tax CUT that the Tories down south think better off folk deserve.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Orraloon

[Regenmann]

Wage inflation has dragged more and more people into the 40% band - £43,000 to £50,000 is an ok income but if you have a mortgage and dependents you're not going to be living a high-rolling lifestyle.

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Is the average wage in Scotland not something like £25k? I would say £43k is distinctly higher if so. I am in the fortunate position to be on a decent salary and have no issue with the taxing band, no matter what party brought it in.  I am unlikely to starve and will still be able to pay the gas bill.  

   

The point is that the  SNP/Greens haven't "brought in" any new tax here. It is just being spun that way by the media. They are just not passing on the TAX CUT which the Tories have brought in down south for these better off earners. Seems fair enough to me. It doesn't bring in that much money but the principle is right. 

[Orraloon]

3 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

Wage inflation has dragged more and more people into the 40% band - £43,000 to £50,000 is an ok income but if you have a mortgage and dependents you're not going to be living a high-rolling lifestyle.

If your wage is being "inflated" you are one of the lucky ones. Most folk haven't had a pay rise for the best part of a decade. 

[fringo]

6 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

Wage inflation has dragged more and more people into the 40% band - £43,000 to £50,000 is an ok income but if you have a mortgage and dependents you're not going to be living a high-rolling lifestyle.

I'd say that's far better than "OK".

And in fact it is.

Average income is about £25k.

Edited February 2, 2017 by fringo

[TDYER63]

4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

The point is that the  SNP/Greens haven't "brought in" any new tax here. It is just being spun that way by the media. They are just not passing on the TAX CUT which the Tories have brought in down south for these better off earners. Seems fair enough to me. It doesn't bring in that much money but the principle is right. 

Yeah sorry i was aware of that . I am sure Regenmann knows that too. I wasnt sure how to describe it. I am not as eloquent as you Orraloon. I am better suited to the Wanky Phrases thread ?

[aaid]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Good few reside in northeast england but their companies are based in aberdeen,, so would it depend on where they stay or where their company is located  

It's outlined below but in summary if you live in Scotland you'll pay the Scottish rate, if you live in England it's the rUK rate.   The relevant section is the one about someone who works in Cardiff but lives in Kilmarnock.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-if-youll-pay-the-scottish-rate-of-income-tax#if-you-have-more-than-one-home-at-the-same-time

While that means that Scotland may lose out on some offshore workers, they will pick up all the WILLIEs, so it's six and half a dozen.

If you think about it, then it's fair enough as where you - and your family - lives is where you'll make use of public services, education, etc. 

An interesting aside with this is that having the different rates and bands means that employers now need to be able to differentiate where an employee is resident in the UK for tax purposes.   This would be one mechanism that if the political will existed that immigration could be devolved.  For example, the SG could issue visas that were only valid for employment in Scotland and this could then be verified and monitored through the payroll and PAYE system.

 

[ErsatzThistle]

3 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Utter apoplexy from the unionist commentators at the Greens siding with the SNP. Although it wasn't exactly a United front,  Tories saying they were taxing too much, Labour too little.

Murdo Fraser seemed on the verge of meltdown with his derogatory comments towards the Greens, must've still been raging from the hammering the Queen's XI received last night...

Some of the stuff he's said or tweeted in the last year has been mental. All started curiously after he lost the election for Speaker, and of course failed yet again to win a constituency seat.

I have no proof of course but I suspect this might be to blame ........

[Orraloon]

11 hours ago, fringo said:

I'd say that's far better than "OK".

And in fact it is.

Average income is about £25k.

It is. Anybody affected by this will be in the top 20% of earners in Scotland. Some of them clearly don't realise how lucky they are to be in a position to pay more tax than at least 80% of the population.

 

 

 

[Parklife]

12 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Is the average wage in Scotland not something like £25k? I would say £43k is distinctly higher if so. I am in the fortunate position to be on a decent salary and have no issue with the taxing band, no matter what party brought it in.  I am unlikely to starve and will still be able to pay the gas bill.  

   

Exactly! 

12 hours ago, Regenmann said:

Wage inflation has dragged more and more people into the 40% band - £43,000 to £50,000 is an ok income but if you have a mortgage and dependents you're not going to be living a high-rolling lifestyle.

"ok"? It's a very good wage. And while you may not be living a "high-rolling lifestyle", you'll have a much more comfortable life than the vast majority of the population. 

24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It is. Anybody affected by this will be in the top 20% of earners in Scotland. Some of them clearly don't realise how lucky they are to be in a position to pay more tax than at least 80% of the population.

The selfishness of some folk never fails to surprise me. 

[sbcmfc]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd pay 40% on your earnings over £43k, it's not like as soon as you cross that threshold you start paying 40% on your whole salary.

If you earn around £43k a year, not only are you doing allright, but you'll not notice any difference.

[Lion Rampant]

1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd pay 40% on your earnings over £43k, it's not like as soon as you cross that threshold you start paying 40% on your whole salary.

If you earn around £43k a year, not only are you doing allright, but you'll not notice any difference.

Yeah, that's right. If it was 40% of your whole salary once you cross the threshold nobody would accept a pay rise!

[sbcmfc]

13 hours ago, Regenmann said:

To continue taxing people at 40% from a threshold of £43,001 is not on - someone earning between £43,001 and £50,000 is hardly a 'high earner' - especially when the services they receive in return are appalling (friend's father spent 13 hours on a trolley in a corridor at QEUH recently) - this threshold freeze was effectively dictated by a party that received 130,000 votes!

Th daily mail said "opponents call them "lentil eating, sandal wearing watermelons""

i thought that was quite funny.

By opponents they mean themselves I presume. It was in an article about hitting hardworking families!

Dont get me wrong, you probably are working hard if you're earning £43-50k a year, but you're hardly on the breadline.

[Regenmann]

It doesn't just apply to salaries though - some companies offer 'share save' schemes and employees earning just below the threshold can be dragged into the higher tax rate by any gains. 

Also, NI is still set at UK level, so someone earning £45,000 in Scotland will pay 52% tax and NI on their income between £43,000 and £45,000 (lower rate NI won't kick in until £45,000).

Edited February 3, 2017 by Regenmann

[Toepoke]

50 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Th daily mail said "opponents call them "lentil eating, sandal wearing watermelons""

i thought that was quite funny.

Those were the words of the aforementioned Murdo Fraser.

 

[Parklife]

4 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

It doesn't just apply to salaries though - some companies offer 'share save' schemes and employees earning just below the threshold can be dragged into the higher tax rate by any gains. 

Also, NI is still set at UK level, so someone earning £45,000 in Scotland will pay 52% tax and NI on their income between £43,000 and £45,000 (lower rate NI won't kick in until £45,000).

Yup. Unsure of the point you're trying to make? 

At a time when inequality is growing at a pretty rapid rate, you're complaining about relatively well off folk being taxed at a level they can well afford to be, while still living very comfortably. 

[sbcmfc]

5 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

It doesn't just apply to salaries though - some companies offer 'share save' schemes and employees earning just below the threshold can be dragged into the higher tax rate by any gains. 

See the way you word that "dragged into the higher tax rate" makes out they'd all of a sudden start paying the higher rate on all their earnings.

They wouldn't.

I've no idea how taxation on share saves works, but if you're worried about that, you're probably doing ok...

[Pool Q]

1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd pay 40% on your earnings over £43k, it's not like as soon as you cross that threshold you start paying 40% on your whole salary.

If you earn around £43k a year, not only are you doing allright, but you'll not notice any difference.

Yes, it is the marginal rate, ie that above the threshold. It's also worth saying that, unless I've missed something in the reporting of the budget, like the rest of the U.K., everyone in Scotland earning above £45k will pay tax at the same rate (45p/£) on that income. The Tories are raising the 40% banding at a rate above inflation; the SNP wanted it raised in line with inflation; the deal with the Greens freezes it at £43k. The rate above £45k was reduced from 50p to 45p by Osbourne, something strangely missing in much of the coverage of this over the last day or so. I think about 15% of people in the UK are higher rate tax payers, it will be less in Scotland. I'm one of them, and in principle, I have no real issues with the £350 a year or so this will involve.

[min]

9 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

Yes, it is the marginal rate, ie that above the threshold. It's also worth saying that, unless I've missed something in the reporting of the budget, like the rest of the U.K., everyone in Scotland earning above £45k will pay tax at the same rate (45p/£) on that income. The Tories are raising the 40% banding at a rate above inflation; the SNP wanted it raised in line with inflation; the deal with the Greens freezes it at £43k. The rate above £45k was reduced from 50p to 45p by Osbourne, something strangely missing in much of the coverage of this over the last day or so. I think about 15% of people in the UK are higher rate tax payers, it will be less in Scotland. I'm one of them, and in principle, I have no real issues with the £350 a year or so this will involve.

 

The 45p rate kicks in at £150k not £45k.

[Pool Q]

10 minutes ago, min said:

 

The 45p rate kicks in at £150k not £45k.

It does, my apologies. Even as I was typing that I kind of knew it was wrong. I think I was mixing it up with what the thresholds would be if frozen or linked to inflation. Or something. Anyway, one thing (OK another thing) I'm not clear on is how long the freeze will be applied. At the moment the difference between Scotland and UK threshold is relatively small. If it was frozen for a number of years while the UK's was raised in line with inflation, eventually the differences in tax paid would become significant.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Pool Q

[Regenmann]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Yup. Unsure of the point you're trying to make? 

At a time when inequality is growing at a pretty rapid rate, you're complaining about relatively well off folk being taxed at a level they can well afford to be, while still living very comfortably. 

I don't think people should be penalised for working hard - even at a 20% rate people on £45,000 would be contributing considerably more than those on £25,000. It gets to the stage where you have to ask yourself if it's worth the bother if the government is going to help itself to half of a band of your income - especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

[sbcmfc]

59 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

especially when it's chucking money away on free prescriptions, free eye tests and tuition fees (which is probably the biggest middle-class subsidy of them all) to people who can well afford to pay.

Don't disagree with all of that. Particularly prescriptions, but then I say that from the fortunate position of rarely requiring prescription medication.

If it's not worth while for you to work for about £14 an hour instead of £19* in your hand, then don't....

The only instance where you could argue it is "unfair" is a couple can both earn £43k each and pay at the lower rate, where as if only 1 works and earns £86k they'd be worse off, but I think they make allowance for that?

 

*based on rough maths on £50k for a 39 hour week