New Council Tax proposals

[MacWalka]

16 hours ago, Orraloon said:

When all the SNPs opponents are trying to goad them into increasing taxes, there is probably some very good reasons why they shouldn't.

 

In this instance it's not necessarily about increasing taxes but reforming the council tax system in the first place.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, MacWalka said:

In this instance it's not necessarily about increasing taxes but reforming the council tax system in the first place.

Would the aim of the reformation be to raise more money? If the answer is 'yes' then somebody is going to be paying more. If the answer is 'no' then what is the point?

 

[MacWalka]

20 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Would the aim of the reformation be to raise more money? If the answer is 'yes' then somebody is going to be paying more. If the answer is 'no' then what is the point?

 

My guess would be that some folk would pay more and others would pay less as the aim would be to make it fairer, ie those who can afford to pa more would and those that are penalised more would pay less. This may raise more in tax or it may break even but the problem with council tax is to do with the unfairness and anomalies in the system, not how much it actually generates. Though any government or council will take any opportunity to generate a bit more cash while they were at it.

[Orraloon]

3 minutes ago, MacWalka said:

My guess would be that some folk would pay more and others would pay less as the aim would be to make it fairer, ie those who can afford to pa more would and those that are penalised more would pay less. This may raise more in tax or it may break even but the problem with council tax is to do with the unfairness and anomalies in the system, not how much it actually generates. Though any government or council will take any opportunity to generate a bit more cash while they were at it.

It seems to be generally accepted that the current system is 'unfair' to some people. A lot of folk have looked very hard at trying to come up with a plan which is more 'fair' and workable. So far I haven't seen anybody come up with a better idea. A Land ValveTax sounds interesting but you would need to see the detail in order to make a judgement on its 'fairness'. I'm not sure how a LVT gets rid of the 'unfairness' of the current system.

Folk have kinda got used to the current system and any unfairness in it. Council tax is one the biggest items on a lot of peoples monthly budget. Announcing major changes to the system a couple of months before an election would not be a wise move IMO.

 

[Fairbairn]

I've just spotted that my house is a band E where my neighbours on either side are both band D.  We've just recently bought our house whereas they've both been there for years so I assume it's because hours has had a more recent valuation.  So, do I query it in the hope that the council will reduce ours to match or do I leave it in case the result is that I'm the khunt next door that got their council tax increased?!!

[Auld_Reekie]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

It seems to be generally accepted that the current system is 'unfair' to some people. A lot of folk have looked very hard at trying to come up with a plan which is more 'fair' and workable. So far I haven't seen anybody come up with a better idea. A Land ValveTax sounds interesting but you would need to see the detail in order to make a judgement on its 'fairness'. I'm not sure how a LVT gets rid of the 'unfairness' of the current system.

Folk have kinda got used to the current system and any unfairness in it. Council tax is one the biggest items on a lot of peoples monthly budget. Announcing major changes to the system a couple of months before an election would not be a wise move IMO.

 

When is the best time to announce a major policy? After the election? Get back into office without telling people what you want to do, and once you are back in, spring it on them? And remember, the SNP previously stood for election on the promise of ending the "unfair" council tax.

This is a mess of their own making. More so given the rhetoric of being a party of fairness, promises of ending the tax and being progressive. Blindly supporting or excusing them risks accusations that the SNP is turning into a party just like the rest: uncritical of the leadership and obsessed with power at any cost.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Fairbairn said:

I've just spotted that my house is a band E where my neighbours on either side are both band D.  We've just recently bought our house whereas they've both been there for years so I assume it's because hours has had a more recent valuation.  So, do I query it in the hope that the council will reduce ours to match or do I leave it in case the result is that I'm the khunt next door that got their council tax increased?!!

Have any improvements adding value been done to your house since 1991? Upgrades to the house only get added to the valuation when houses are sold.

[Orraloon]

11 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

When is the best time to announce a major policy? After the election? Get back into office without telling people what you want to do, and once you are back in, spring it on them? And remember, the SNP previously stood for election on the promise of ending the "unfair" council tax.

This is a mess of their own making. More so given the rhetoric of being a party of fairness, promises of ending the tax and being progressive. Blindly supporting or excusing them risks accusations that the SNP is turning into a party just like the rest: uncritical of the leadership and obsessed with power at any cost.

The last time it was in the SNP manifesto was in 2007. When they tried to introduce a local income tax they were voted down in their first defeat after losing power.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-suffers-its-first-defeat-over-tax-plans-1-1149678

It hasn't been in their manifesto since, as far as I am aware. Parties are allowed to change their minds about policies. The local income tax probably wasn't a very good idea but they hadn't been in power long enough to realise it at that point. 

[antidote]

3 hours ago, Auld_Reekie said:

When is the best time to announce a major policy? After the election? Get back into office without telling people what you want to do, and once you are back in, spring it on them? And remember, the SNP previously stood for election on the promise of ending the "unfair" council tax.

This is a mess of their own making. More so given the rhetoric of being a party of fairness, promises of ending the tax and being progressive. Blindly supporting or excusing them risks accusations that the SNP is turning into a party just like the rest: uncritical of the leadership and obsessed with power at any cost.

A genuine question. What is a fair tax in this instance?

No one likes paying tax of any sorts and the council tax is one of my pet hates, especially when you see councils holding the elderly, poor and low wage earners to ransom while they live it up on a decent wage with a guilt edged pension etc. We're talking middle management and above here BTW.

Anyway, has the SNP Gov. not frozen the CT for those people in the lower band range and put up the council tax up for those on the more expensive homes, £320k+ I believe.

You can't please all of the people when it comes to the CT, there will always be winners and losers.

The burning question for me is what councils will do with the existing/extra money, will they spend it on themselves, will they stash it on investments for a rainy [black hole] pension day. Will they give their workers needless overtime at our expense, as I seen them doing last year. Hire more office staff that they don't need to bloat the workforce even more?

My concern is how good the councils are with the money they get right now and from what I've seen in my area, they're not making a good job of it.

[Auld_Reekie]

17 hours ago, antidote said:

A genuine question. What is a fair tax in this instance?

No one likes paying tax of any sorts and the council tax is one of my pet hates, especially when you see councils holding the elderly, poor and low wage earners to ransom while they live it up on a decent wage with a guilt edged pension etc. We're talking middle management and above here BTW.

Anyway, has the SNP Gov. not frozen the CT for those people in the lower band range and put up the council tax up for those on the more expensive homes, £320k+ I believe.

You can't please all of the people when it comes to the CT, there will always be winners and losers.

The burning question for me is what councils will do with the existing/extra money, will they spend it on themselves, will they stash it on investments for a rainy [black hole] pension day. Will they give their workers needless overtime at our expense, as I seen them doing last year. Hire more office staff that they don't need to bloat the workforce even more?

My concern is how good the councils are with the money they get right now and from what I've seen in my area, they're not making a good job of it.

I dont know what a fair tax is in this instance, but Im a member of the SNP and have voted for them on the basis (amongst others) that they supported radical reform of local taxation and an end to the council tax. It's not for me to say what is and isn't fair - I've got a day job. But as a member and a supporter, I reserve the right to call them out of being sellouts and lacking ambition.

Like you, I am also concerned with what councils are doing with the money but I exercise that opinion through local elections. That doesn't mean the Scottish Government are beyond criticism of how they fund local authorities.

If this were Scottish Labour in power and doing similar, nationalists would be frothing at the mouth.

[Lamia]

9 hours ago, Auld_Reekie said:

I dont know what a fair tax is in this instance, but Im a member of the SNP and have voted for them on the basis (amongst others) that they supported radical reform of local taxation and an end to the council tax. It's not for me to say what is and isn't fair - I've got a day job. But as a member and a supporter, I reserve the right to call them out of being sellouts and lacking ambition.

Like you, I am also concerned with what councils are doing with the money but I exercise that opinion through local elections. That doesn't mean the Scottish Government are beyond criticism of how they fund local authorities.

If this were Scottish Labour in power and doing similar, nationalists would be frothing at the mouth.

[antidote]

On 3/9/2016 at 11:36 AM, Auld_Reekie said:

I dont know what a fair tax is in this instance, but Im a member of the SNP and have voted for them on the basis (amongst others) that they supported radical reform of local taxation and an end to the council tax. It's not for me to say what is and isn't fair - I've got a day job. But as a member and a supporter, I reserve the right to call them out of being sellouts and lacking ambition.

Like you, I am also concerned with what councils are doing with the money but I exercise that opinion through local elections. That doesn't mean the Scottish Government are beyond criticism of how they fund local authorities.

If this were Scottish Labour in power and doing similar, nationalists would be frothing at the mouth.

No problem with your point at all.

[hampden_loon2878]

Maybe a bit off topic but one of the most unfair benifits is the child benifits system, if one house hold member earns 50k+ you do not recieve any but if there are two earners to a houshold earning 49k you still recieve child benifits,, fair enough i  don't  grudge that i do not recieve child benifit but surely it should be based on house hold salary

[Toepoke]

1500 jobs going at GCC!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35777545

Scorched earth policy from Labour ahead of next year's election?

 

[Alan]

Got to give SNP credit for reducing size of the state. Looking like 40000 public sector jobs decrease since in power.

[phart]

They're making a right chunt of governing the police atm. I'm just finishing a bit off about Syria then i'm going back to the justice committee questioning, which seems to be a cross-party effort at specious questioning.

[antidote]

14 minutes ago, Alan said:

Got to give SNP credit for reducing size of the state. Looking like 40000 public sector jobs decrease since in power.

A little trick the local councils do are to move council workers in their local libraries, swimming pools etc. onto an arms length trust employment status, thus they count it as a job loss from the council.

How can councils be cutting jobs when they have £1.9 billion in investments and have collectively had a surplus in their finances of £70 million this year.

Let's not forget that GCC can also send some councillors on junkets to the south of France and New York while they plead poverty.

Edited March 15, 2016 by antidote

[Alan]

Would those "investments" be pension funds?

East Renfrewshire council tax income will rise 10%. Glasgow will only rise by 4%.

The rich get richer. I'm getting the feeling with extra decisions and spends Nicola is going to be found out in economics.

[stocky]

5 minutes ago, Alan said:

Would those "investments" be pension funds?

East Renfrewshire council tax income will rise 10%. Glasgow will only rise by 4%.

The rich get richer. I'm getting the feeling with extra decisions and spends Nicola is going to be found out in economics.

that is because East Ren is full of rich folk, they will be taxed more. 

IE The rich pay more 

Glasgow hasmore  poorer folk and they will be taxed less.

IE Poor people pay less.

 

Do you actually understand how anything works?

Seriously  , 

 

I honestly dont believe anyone can be as dense as you come across sometimes.

[Alan]

So its not that redistributive is it?

[ParisInAKilt]

On 3 March 2016 at 8:53 AM, hampden_loon2878 said:

Rather vote tory than that green tree hugging brigade

Sadly the vast majority would agree with you and one of the reasons why the country is forever ####ed. 

The greens economically talk more sense than the Tories but will always be protraded as radicals who can't be trusted with the economy. 

[Larky Masher]

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14345927.SNP_s_council_tax_system_is_regressive__confirm_experts/

The worst piece of spin yet "A spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said its reforms made the council tax fairer and that its proposals “have been described as ‘progressive’.”, aye they've been described by the SNP as progressive.

[phart]

That's spin Larky but not the worst piece of spin yet, it's spin calling it the worst spin.

 

[Larky Masher]

2 hours ago, phart said:

That's spin Larky but not the worst piece of spin yet, it's spin calling it the worst spin.

 

Sophist.

[phart]

3 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

Sophist.

 

Right you've got the spelling down now we can work on meaning ,context.and correct usage.