phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hasn't that passport already been confirmed as a fake? According to jon Snow https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/665814624672051201?ref_src=twsrc^tfw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 As far as I can see, since June 2014 the group has chosen to call itself ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah which translates as Islamic State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Farrington Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 you sure about that? Entered as a migrant part, I heard he just had a Syrian Passport. Ahmed Almohamed is the name i believe. That's assuming it's not a stolen identity. Like loads of other attacks. May very well be sleeper, but until we have all the the information, no point making snap judgments, that just entrenches your view when more info comes. That was the last I heard anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) As far as I can see, since June 2014 the group has chosen to call itself ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah which translates as Islamic State They don't even belief in "states" though. It might be the "translation", it's like trying to point to a leader when folk have a leaderless community. We're grafting our culture on theirs via language. EDIT: I'm just going by what a syrian told me so i might be wrong. Edited November 16, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 They don't even belief in "states" though. It might be the "translation", it's like trying to point to a leader when folk have a leaderless community. We're grafting our culture on theirs via language. Yes, the distortion of language and culturally contingent semantics is worth highlighting (al-Dawla). However, I don't think 'State' is too far off in the case of the Caliphate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Yes, the distortion of language and culturally contingent semantics is worth highlighting (al-Dawla). However, I don't think 'State' is too far off in the case of the Caliphate. Probably, i think the guy i was speaking to was trying to make a subtle point on a difference of thinking. As in all muslims are in one "state" so there isn't actually any delineation into "countries" it's all one "brotherhood" type thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Daft Q but did ISIS call themselves that or was it a name given by someone else? ISIS were originally Al Qeda, for every 10 virgins the Taliban offered Al Qeda would offer 20. This led them into administration and latterly liquidation and they came back as a newco. They are a different company and depending on which side you believe they are a different terrorist group as they still glorify in past atrocities and seem to the think the whole world is against them One thing is for sure though is new company or new club or not they still possess the same sickening and vile values as the previous regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 One of the claims that ISIS (and apologists) makes is that 'we' in the west value Muslim lives less than those of people here. You'll hear it said every time someone does in a vox pop in any UK town with a sizeable Muslim population. I struggle to see how that can be argued against after events of the past few days. Clearly the fact that so many of us know Paris, and its geographical closeness to us is a factor, but there is more to it than that. If what happened in Beirut had happened in LA or Sydney our media would be all over it, and all the FB profile stuff relating to Paris would be going on too. Yet they are a very long way away. But suicide bombs or shootings in Lebanon, Syria or Nairobi don't register with most of us it seems. I wouldn't dream of questioning those who want to register their horror at events in Paris, or their expressions of solidarity, I simply have no right to and tend to agree anyway. I just wonder whether if we were all a bit more aware of, and cared more about, what was going on elsewhere then maybe our elected representatives would do something about it, and there would be fewer apparently willing recruits to causes that think it is OK to act like a handful of deluded nut jobs did in Paris on Friday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 ISIS were originally Al Qeda, for every 10 virgins the Taliban offered Al Qeda would offer 20. This led them into administration and latterly liquidation and they came back as a newco. They are a different company and depending on which side you believe they are a different terrorist group as they still glorify in past atrocities and seem to the think the whole world is against them One thing is for sure though is new company or new club or not they still possess the same sickening and vile values as the previous regime You seem to think you are some sort of comedian, in reality you're not the least bit funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 You seem to think you are some sort of comedian, in reality you're not the least bit funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/16/jeremy-corbyn-calls-for-political-solution-syria Corbyn criticising the media for lack of reporting of the Beirut bombing. Saying the air-strikes will make no difference and saying we need to find a diplomatic solution in Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Rampant Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/16/jeremy-corbyn-calls-for-political-solution-syria Corbyn criticising the media for lack of reporting of the Beirut bombing. Saying the air-strikes will make no difference and saying we need to find a diplomatic solution in Syria. He's right, but it won't stop the right wing media bashing him for saying it. It'll be twisted into him not caring about the Paris attacks no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 The thing is, its not strictly speaking a diplomatic solution we need either. Because a lot ofwl what needs to happen is about massively twisting arms and changing funding which is not really open diplomacy. The Sunnis are massively dominated and persecuted to a greater or lesser extent across most of the states of the middle East by the Shias. This has gone on for so long and been in some cases so brutal that it's got to the point that any knd of answer will get some support and tolerance in the Sunni community. If you are a Sunni and your choice is tolerating ISIS and having to observe your religion more closely so that those who have abused you for decades are removed from power (and these are your only options), what would you do? Stand up and shout "if rather be abused thanks" at which point you and your family will be shot? The West needs to work towards creating a non radical future for Sunni Muslims - which involve s slapping the out of Saudi Arabia and many of the other powers which are currently western allies. A lot of this will be economic, involving mawwve subsidies to new energy industries, v the renewable energy and non traditional oil and gas, so the gulf hegemonies are no longer important, after which they can be pushed towards Sunni / Shi'a mutual tolerance. In the meantime I'm not against very precise operations to remove ISIS camps and leadership, but I don't think bombings is the way to do it. SAS, French special forces, Russian Spetznaz to do proper pinpoint stuff. I don't trust US special forces to be clinical enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Sorry for the typos my phones is playing silly buccaneers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 "Writing on Twitter, the anti-ISIL activist group Raqqa is Being Silently Slaughtered said air strikes had also hit a stadium, a museum, clinics, a hospital, a chicken farm and a local governmental building." Well in lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 A diplomatic solution? Is Corbyn going to cycle over to Syria and speak to the Islamist fundamentalists of IS so they will sit down and agree to live in peace? They throw homosexuals off rooftops. They force Yazidi women to be sex slaves. They burn prisoners alive. They behead foreigners. They convince others to be suicide bombers. They destroy anything that does not prescribe to their form of Islam. They kill more of their "own" i.e. Muslims than any other "foreign crusaders". The Beirut bombings were covered by the media. That MSM which people rail against did report it. It was on BBC and in the broadsheet papers. Something in France is always going to get more media coverage as 1. Middle East is always seen as in a state of turmoil so less shock value and 2. It's just across the water. A Eurostar from London takes 2 and a bit hours. There are so many French people in London they have their own Member of French Parliament. 3. They are a European ally, the targets were football crowds, restaurant goers, music lovers. That is basic all my pastimes in 1. They targeted people who I could say "they are like me". Islamists will only be stopped by fellow Muslims. Western governments (and looks like Russia too) will be there to hold back the threat as much as possible but it is Islam itself that needs to challenge and rid itself of this minority branch of fundamentalism. The Islamists do not care about life. They want to die and take as many of us with them. That is a very difficult thing to combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) The people targeted in Beirut aren't like us? Edited November 16, 2015 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 A diplomatic solution? Is Corbyn going to cycle over to Syria and speak to the Islamist fundamentalists of IS so they will sit down and agree to live in peace? T He specifically said in the article not to get round a table with ISIS but with Syria and Russia and Iran etc to drive them out. You're ranting about a situation that only exists in the confine of your skull, save your blood pressure and read what is said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 He specifically said in the article not to get round a table with ISIS but with Syria and Russia and Iran etc to drive them out. You're ranting about a situation that only exists in the confine of your skull, save your blood pressure and read what is said. But, where do you drive them out to ? They are not going to disappear. We are going to be involved in this for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So it looks like we do a deal with the devl aka Assad to target ISIS? Which is what he has wanted and effectively encouraged their rise. It's a complicated one Syria. But this Islamist ideology won't go away if IS are defeated in Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It's amazing how they suddenly knew where all these targets were magically overnight. Maybe if they knew where they were they should have done something in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 But, where do you drive them out to ? They are not going to disappear. We are going to be involved in this for a very long time. You kill them, we've already been involved for a very long time anyway. Guess who split the Ottaman Empire between them after World War I (France and Britain). We have to kill the fighter and their leaders. give the Iranians and the Syrians, maybe hezbollah the help to eradicate them. No need for our planes to fly there at all. The problem is Israel wants Arab countries split into sectarian based factions. Hence why they have been aiding ISIS with deliveries and medical attention for commanders etc. So it looks like we do a deal with the devl aka Assad to target ISIS? Which is what he has wanted and effectively encouraged their rise. It's a complicated one Syria. But this Islamist ideology won't go away if IS are defeated in Syria. Assad encouraged the rise of the folk trying to depose him? Really? Yeah the idealogy wont go away, cause it is Saudi funded wahhabism. Syria is mainly Shia. The Devil? Very religious... We've seen Syria with Assad in control and we've seen it without him in control. Even if it is what he wanted (it wasn't) you'd rather the situation continued so Assad didn't get "what he wanted"? Yeah very complicated Syria considering all the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 the solution will come after the next US election. The next president will have the balls and the intellect to grasp the nettle by the throat and do what needs to be done: nuke Mecca. #PrayForTrump2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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