Maq Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Maybe the 1st time the club have been in trouble, they've been doing it for the last couple seasons though, and their fans have been at it for decades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Not really sure this is the place for another debate on schools. On the general topic of sectarianism, this is interesting though: http://www.gov.scot/publications/2005/01/20553/50500 Back on topic, looks like rangers fans' singing last night will be included in match report. As we are a first time offender, I expect a slap on the wrists. "3.13 Whilst the authors recognise that sectarian songs are sung at Old Firm matches, they claim this does not equate to sectarian attitudes. They argue that the average football supporter is young, male and from a working class background. The culture surrounding this group suggests that there is an appearance of aggressiveness that is not as severe as it might seem. The majority of the people who sing sectarian songs do so as a 'wind up' and do not mean the words they sing. In reality the people who sing these songs do so only to get at the team they are playing, and at the end of the day go home to their mixed marriages and mixed communities. They will often go to work the next day and talk to their Catholic or Protestant work colleague about the match."Och, that's all right then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 This is it in a nutshell. Now I'm in no way a fan of the green and white side of glasgow but there really is only one team that perpetuates sectarian behaviour in scotland.Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doric Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Not really sure this is the place for another debate on schools. On the general topic of sectarianism, this is interesting though: http://www.gov.scot/publications/2005/01/20553/50500 Back on topic, looks like rangers fans' singing last night will be included in match report. As we are a first time offender, I expect a slap on the wrists. Yes in the match report but to be swiftly swept under the carper again !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Until the SPFL SFA or the WWF whoever runs it, grow a backbone and start handing out proper sanctions such as fines and points penalties, the attitudes of some knuckledraggers will never change. I've been at the last 3 away games, and last night's was the worst of the lot, but to be honest, is still better than 5 or 6 years back. Now, I am not saying that is a good thing, more that it is taking some a long time to see sense, but until the above do something, the moronic element will continue with their ridiculous song book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Until the SPFL SFA or the WWF whoever runs it, grow a backbone and start handing out proper sanctions such as fines and points penalties, the attitudes of some knuckledraggers will never change. I've been at the last 3 away games, and last night's was the worst of the lot, but to be honest, is still better than 5 or 6 years back. Now, I am not saying that is a good thing, more that it is taking some a long time to see sense, but until the above do something, the moronic element will continue with their ridiculous song book. According to Regan it's all because the cops can't lift thousands of people at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 According to Regan it's all because the cops can't lift thousands of people at the same time.Too busy stop-searching under 12s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Spfl match delegate Tam Purdie to tell league body of sectarian singing in his match report from Raith v Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 According to Regan it's all because the cops can't lift thousands of people at the same time. I was speaking to a pretty senior cop (in England) about this last night - I asked why the polis dont just start lifting folk, and that once one or two were arrested, others would take heed. He tried to tell me it was more difficult than that - that it's hard to pick someone out, as fellow fans around them will hide them, bunch round them, fight back etc. He reckoned the best thing to do was pick folk out, then wait for them to leave the ground, and lift them then, and pass their details onto the club also (who he says are usually very good at banning folk once they have their info) Seems like a cop (excuse the pun) out to me. What statement does it make to wait til after the game? If we want to stop this, we need it nipped in the bud as soon as it starts. I've seen clips from last night, it wasn't a small minority singing. The polis and the SFA are condoning their actions by doing nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I was speaking to a pretty senior cop (in England) about this last night - I asked why the polis dont just start lifting folk, and that once one or two were arrested, others would take heed. He tried to tell me it was more difficult than that - that it's hard to pick someone out, as fellow fans around them will hide them, bunch round them, fight back etc. He reckoned the best thing to do was pick folk out, then wait for them to leave the ground, and lift them then, and pass their details onto the club also (who he says are usually very good at banning folk once they have their info) Seems like a cop (excuse the pun) out to me. What statement does it make to wait til after the game? If we want to stop this, we need it nipped in the bud as soon as it starts. I've seen clips from last night, it wasn't a small minority singing. The polis and the SFA are condoning their actions by doing nothing If the police can't take action for the reasons outlined above then the problem moves back to the football authorities. Place clubs on a warning. Then fine them, dock points or expel from cups for repeated offences. If that was to happen clubs would soon find a way of being far more proactive themselves in stopping this. I seem to recall a number of years ago 1 or 2 clubs making it known that if fans caused their club to be fined and they could identify those responsible then they would consider taking a civil case against them to recover the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wine bibber Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 This is it in a nutshell. Now I'm in no way a fan of the green and white side of glasgow but there really is only one team that perpetuates sectarian behaviour in scotland. Agree 100 %.But Rangers are not a football team anymore .They are a political organisation who are masquerading as a football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Kids in our street go to 6 different schools, 3 non denom, 2 local authority catholic and 1 private catholic school. Funnily enough the kids from the non denom school kids who go to different non denom schools dont hate each other nor do the catholic kids that go to different catholic schools hate each other, not to mention that the catholic kids get on fine with the non denom kids. My eldest sons best pal goes to a non denom school. They dont seem to realise they should hate each other the dafties. However, my main question to you, given that you think different schools are divisive is can you explain to me why kids in the same street going to different non denom schools should be any more or less divisive than kids in the same street going to a catholuc school and non denominational schools? Whats the difference there?This is also my experience but as another poster has said already said parents are at the root of the problem. If kids are indoctrinated at home they can't get a chance to see other denominations if they don't share a school. When I was younger we had a bampot that wouldn't let his boy play with any Catholics. The boy was not a problem but his Dad was. If one of our Catholic friends turned up to play football the boy had to go as his Dad would have punished him. The boy couldn't find out that religious differences don't change the person because he wasn't allowed to. If they had shared a school this couldn't have happened as easily. I've since met the guy and he is a bigot now. Created by his Dad and lack of life experience. Ive seen this from both angles enough times to know that although the schools are not a cause they also don't help cure the problem either. I do think that the modern religious education is so much better now that this helps too but if all kids went to the one school there would be much less chance of early indoctrination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 If the police can't take action for the reasons outlined above then the problem moves back to the football authorities. Place clubs on a warning. Then fine them, dock points or expel from cups for repeated offences. If that was to happen clubs would soon find a way of being far more proactive themselves in stopping this. I seem to recall a number of years ago 1 or 2 clubs making it known that if fans caused their club to be fined and they could identify those responsible then they would consider taking a civil case against them to recover the costs. The police could take action but don't. It is a dereliction of their duty to turn a blind eye.I think if they did their job then the clubs could use that for the Civil action you talk about. Fines and cup expulsions would be effective punishments in my opinion. Points deductions would be a step up from their for repeated offending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Now this may seem a bit radical here,but if the authorities aren't going to do anything,why don't the clubs try and do something about them and enforce a blanket ban? One way or another the premiership or championship won't have them coming through their gates next season and they will have to survive without them,so the simple answer is don't let them in until they can show that they can behave themselves. It is obviously unfair to the decent fans,but I'm sure they would understand why it has to happen as enough is enough with this behaviour. The game will die on its arse once the older fans pass away as the younger generation simply don't get taken to these games to hear all this nonsense. Edited February 21, 2015 by dandydunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 If the police can't take action for the reasons outlined above then the problem moves back to the football authorities. Place clubs on a warning. Then fine them, dock points or expel from cups for repeated offences. If that was to happen clubs would soon find a way of being far more proactive themselves in stopping this. I seem to recall a number of years ago 1 or 2 clubs making it known that if fans caused their club to be fined and they could identify those responsible then they would consider taking a civil case against them to recover the costs. Aye, the authorities could take any number of measures to stamp this out - fines, loss of points, forcing them to play games behind closed doors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peever1745 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Doc Rangers and Celtic 10 points for their vile chants.That should sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelbo009 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I've stopped going to Ibrox because of this shite. I'll continue to support the team, but I refuse to pay money to the club to sit among utter Neanderthals anymore. I'm up the road at the end of March when Rangers are at home to Cowdenbeath - time was I'd have gone along to that, but no more. Instead I'll be attending Albion Rovers v Elgin. The authorities need to start doing something - closed doors, points deductions, whatever - that'll force Rangers (and Celtic to a lesser extent) to take action. Until that happens, the problem will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Farrington Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Doc Rangers and Celtic 10 points for their vile chants.That should sort it out. 100% right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Doc Rangers and Celtic 10 points for their vile chants.That should sort it out. That would stop all the shite within a fortnight. The sfa and spfl are too terrified to do it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That would stop all the shite within a fortnight. The sfa and spfl are too terrified to do it though. The problem is the clubs set the rules within these associations and turkeys don't vote for Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) There's nothing to stop the police making arrests, they do it all the time with the Green Brigade. Edited February 21, 2015 by ek_celt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilly71 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 This is also my experience but as another poster has said already said parents are at the root of the problem. If kids are indoctrinated at home they can't get a chance to see other denominations if they don't share a school. When I was younger we had a bampot that wouldn't let his boy play with any Catholics. The boy was not a problem but his Dad was. If one of our Catholic friends turned up to play football the boy had to go as his Dad would have punished him. The boy couldn't find out that religious differences don't change the person because he wasn't allowed to. If they had shared a school this couldn't have happened as easily. I've since met the guy and he is a bigot now. Created by his Dad and lack of life experience. Ive seen this from both angles enough times to know that although the schools are not a cause they also don't help cure the problem either. I do think that the modern religious education is so much better now that this helps too but if all kids went to the one school there would be much less chance of early indoctrination. Catholics would still be catholics whether they were going to a non denom school or not. If catholic schooling was abolished i wonder what excuse for sectarian behaviour would be trotted out. Probably be the caffliks fault for being different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Catholics would still be catholics whether they were going to a non denom school or not. If catholic schooling was abolished i wonder what excuse for sectarian behaviour would be trotted out. Probably be the caffliks fault for being different. Absolutely. They have Catholic schools in England but virtually no sectarianism. Same-sex schools do seem to give them problems down there though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Catholics would still be catholics whether they were going to a non denom school or not. If catholic schooling was abolished i wonder what excuse for sectarian behaviour would be trotted out. Probably be the caffliks fault for being different.FFS can you read?There's no excuse for sectarianism. There are however lots of things that prevent education. Anything that discourages different faiths and races from mixing slows down any progress in getting rid of bigotry. Kids always pick on people who are different in any way. A different school uniform is just one of many things but it could be eradicated quite easily. I don't actually know why we need faith specific schools. Religion should only be in the school as an educational subject. There shouldn't be any religious services as it's not a church. But then I am an atheist so I don't think religion should be drummed into kids as it's just a form of brain washing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 FFS can you read? There's no excuse for sectarianism. There are however lots of things that prevent education. Anything that discourages different faiths and races from mixing slows down any progress in getting rid of bigotry. Kids always pick on people who are different in any way. A different school uniform is just one of many things but it could be eradicated quite easily. I don't actually know why we need faith specific schools. Religion should only be in the school as an educational subject. There shouldn't be any religious services as it's not a church. But then I am an atheist so I don't think religion should be drummed into kids as it's just a form of brain washing. And as soon as sectarianism is mentioned someone comes along, blames the schools and nothing is ever done about the real reasons for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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