Bristolhibby Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Of course Old Firm fans engage in the general abuse too. Nothing excuses that either. Other fans need to accept that they are responsible for abuse too. The poster on here who's been asking what the difference is between being called a Fenian and a sheepshagger still hasn't received anything like an answer. Abuse is abuse whether it's around religion or not. Why is sectarianism worse than other forms of abuse? I could call someone a cant, because I think they are a cant. This cant could be black, white, Protestant or Catholic. I'm still calling him a cant. However if I call him a Fenian cant, then I am using his religion as a qualification for him being a cant. That is sectarian abuse. The first example is just someone being a cant. One is illegal, the other is not. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I could call someone a cant, because I think they are a cant. This cant could be black, white, Protestant or Catholic. I'm still calling him a cant. However if I call him a Fenian cant, then I am using his religion as a qualification for him being a cant. That is sectarian abuse. The first example is just someone being a cant. One is illegal, the other is not. J What about calling someone a "paedo cant"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What about calling someone a "paedo cant"? Well it's certainly not sectarian. Was he a peado though? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I could call someone a cant, because I think they are a cant. This cant could be black, white, Protestant or Catholic. I'm still calling him a cant. However if I call him a Fenian cant, then I am using his religion as a qualification for him being a cant. That is sectarian abuse. The first example is just someone being a cant. One is illegal, the other is not. J Tell ye what mate, go up to the next Polisman you see and call him a .....see him laugh it off as 'it's not illegal' Been reading this thread with interest and the hypocrisy is ridiculous to the point of being funny. At referendum time the abuse directed towards the No Campaign on here was at fever pitch. Serious question. If sectarianism bothers so many people on here, why wasn't there the same outcry when no voters were regularly called 'nawbags, arseholes, shitebags, scum' to name a few examples? Serious question btw, I'm genuinely interested to the mindset of some of you who think it's acceptable to do that but at the same time were so offended by the goings on at Hampden two weeks ago? Sectarianism has no place at football, that's not up for debate. Can't say it bothers me either though. It just seems that for some on here, it's sometimes acceptable, so long as it suits their own agenda. I await the 'whataboutery' pish that so many on here like to hide behind as well. Just so we are clear sectarianism is still very much a problem at my club, I know that. As mentioned already it doesn't affect me personally but some folk live their lives in bitterness and hatred which I'll never understand or try and defend. Edited February 17, 2015 by Angus_Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The no campaign behaved in a shocking manner, lied and cheated there way to getting the vote they wanted. Is A Darling an arsehole and a scumbag? Probably. I don't hate him per say but he's part of a political system that I think is wrong and corrupt. What that's got to do with secterian singing I'm struggling to understand. Even when the abuse was at its worst from both sides, I don't think it reached the same level of hating someone because of their religion. And most people on here were always quick to condem the abuse as it harmed the yes vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The no campaign behaved in a shocking manner, lied and cheated there way to getting the vote they wanted. Is A Darling an arsehole and a scumbag? Probably. I don't hate him per say but he's part of a political system that I think is wrong and corrupt. What that's got to do with secterian singing I'm struggling to understand. Even when the abuse was at its worst from both sides, I don't think it reached the same level of hating someone because of their religion. And most people on here were always quick to condem the abuse as it harmed the yes vote It's relevant because it's also sectarian abuse by it's very definition. It doesn't matter a jot what 'level' the hatred reaches, it's still present. I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy, that's all. Just two minutes ago I read a thread where Rossy makes reference to 'No voting kunts'. It's the sort of statement that was pretty typical around referendum time and no one batted an eyelid. I'm just wondering what you, and the others aboard the offended bus, would have to say if I started referring to Celtic fans on here as 'fenian kunts'? And whilst you are at it, you could maybe explain to me why one is so bad, and the other very much accepted as being ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It's relevant because it's also sectarian abuse by it's very definition. It doesn't matter a jot what 'level' the hatred reaches, it's still present. I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy, that's all. Just two minutes ago I read a thread where Rossy makes reference to 'No voting kunts'. It's the sort of statement that was pretty typical around referendum time and no one batted an eyelid. I'm just wondering what you, and the others aboard the offended bus, would have to say if I started referring to Celtic fans on here as 'fenian kunts'? And whilst you are at it, you could maybe explain to me why one is so bad, and the other very much accepted as being ok? I don't think either of those things are acceptable. Abusing someone for an opinion isn't going to help change that opinion or encourage a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) It's relevant because it's also sectarian abuse by it's very definition. It doesn't matter a jot what 'level' the hatred reaches, it's still present. I'm simply pointing out the blatant hypocrisy, that's all. Just two minutes ago I read a thread where Rossy makes reference to 'No voting kunts'. It's the sort of statement that was pretty typical around referendum time and no one batted an eyelid. I'm just wondering what you, and the others aboard the offended bus, would have to say if I started referring to Celtic fans on here as 'fenian kunts'? And whilst you are at it, you could maybe explain to me why one is so bad, and the other very much accepted as being ok? I disagree about people not batting an eyelid, I can't be blamed for the actions of others and any abuse by them during the campaign. So accepting one as being okay and another not isn't a question I can really answer since I find both unacceptable. Wouldn't say I'm aboard the offended bus. I was in a pub over here and listened to the sectarian singing, felt mainly pity for them and would likely feel the same for you if that's how you wanted to conduct yourself on a message board. Edited February 17, 2015 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I disagree about people not batting an eyelid, I can't be blamed for the actions of others and any abuse by them during the campaign. So accepting one as being okay and another not isn't a question I can really answer since I find both unacceptable. Wouldn't say I'm aboard the offended bus. I was in a pub over here and listened to the sectarian singing, felt mainly pity for them and would likely feel the same for you if that's how you wanted to conduct yourself on a message board. Fair one mate, I'm probably a bit over the score with the offended bus thing and of course you can't speak for other posters so I apologise for that. Spot on about feeling a degree of pity for the idiots that partake in that sort of thing. Exactly how I regard them myself. You honestly wonder what planet some of them are on. I do think my point is valid though. Rangers and Celtic fans get an absolute powering on here, especially regarding sectarianism and as I said already, for the guys and gals that partake in this, there can be no excuses for them and they deserve it. But, and it can be labelled 'whataboutery' if you like, you can't deny the abuse dished out to No Voters on here by a lot of prominent posters was also sectarian. It's conveniently ignored by the high and shitey brigade posting in this thread because it doesn't fit in with their own warped agenda. I'm actually starting to wonder if half the folk that shout about it actually know the definition of 'sectarianism' such is the hypocrisy of some of the posts. As I said already if I was to refer to EK_Celt as a 'fenian ' my account would be barred immediately. p.s I'm not trying to get Rossy banned btw, just using his post to make my point that's all Edited February 17, 2015 by Angus_Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I don't think either of those things are acceptable. Abusing someone for an opinion isn't going to help change that opinion or encourage a discussion. I agree 100%................my point is that some think one is acceptable and the other isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Tell ye what mate, go up to the next Polisman you see and call him a .....see him laugh it off as 'it's not illegal' Been reading this thread with interest and the hypocrisy is ridiculous to the point of being funny. At referendum time the abuse directed towards the No Campaign on here was at fever pitch. Serious question. If sectarianism bothers so many people on here, why wasn't there the same outcry when no voters were regularly called 'nawbags, arseholes, shitebags, scum' to name a few examples? Serious question btw, I'm genuinely interested to the mindset of some of you who think it's acceptable to do that but at the same time were so offended by the goings on at Hampden two weeks ago? Sectarianism has no place at football, that's not up for debate. Can't say it bothers me either though. It just seems that for some on here, it's sometimes acceptable, so long as it suits their own agenda. I await the 'whataboutery' pish that so many on here like to hide behind as well. Just so we are clear sectarianism is still very much a problem at my club, I know that. As mentioned already it doesn't affect me personally but some folk live their lives in bitterness and hatred which I'll never understand or try and defend. You are bringing a power angle into it. I get into an argument in a pub and somebody calls me a kant, it's not illegal. If I went to the police and told them "that guy called me a kant" thes laugh in my face. Like I said, saying nasty names at someone isn't a crime. If I said "I'm going to kill you, Ya kant". Then I have drifted into a criminal action. We really can't and shouldn't confuse having prejudice and abusing someone because of their percieved religion with being just a nasty kant. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You are bringing a power angle into it. I get into an argument in a pub and somebody calls me a kant, it's not illegal. If I went to the police and told them "that guy called me a kant" thes laugh in my face. Like I said, saying nasty names at someone isn't a crime. If I said "I'm going to kill you, Ya kant". Then I have drifted into a criminal action. We really can't and shouldn't confuse having prejudice and abusing someone because of their percieved religion with being just a nasty kant. J The scenario you use is fair enough and I agree that's probably how it would play out. Try this one though. Same guy goes up to a young mother out with her two infants and shouts at her that she is a '', he is more than likely looking at an arrest for breach of the peace I would have thought? Anyway this is getting to ridiculous levels, I only meant it in jest mate and I do actually agree with you. That said I've been called a '' and 'an orange ' in the past. Neither offended me and I certainly wouldn't have been looking for the twat who shouted it to be arrested. Only one of the statement are true btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 How many folk have Celtic and rangers banned for sectarianism in the past 12 months? I know of 2 personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I know of 2 personallyBased on the league cup semi - just another 24,998 folk to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Based on the league cup semi - just another 24,998 folk to go They both received letters before the game telling them if they were found to be at the game they would receive a £5k fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 They both received letters before the game telling them if they were found to be at the game they would receive a £5k fineSounds like they've been given banning orders by the court, rather than a ban by the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Sounds like they've been given banning orders by the court, rather than a ban by the club? It possibly has went that far, but certainly was the club that banned them in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I agree 100%................my point is that some think one is acceptable and the other isn't. I tried to get an answer as to why "sheepshagging " was acceptable and "fenian " wasn't. I can't really remember the answer I got,but i know what you mean. In other points made following your comment. 1: I get called a khunt all the time 2: I know someone that got lifted at the semi and has apparently been banned until his court appearance in August,although I have only heard this through the grapevine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I tried to get an answer as to why "sheepshagging " was acceptable and "fenian " wasn't. I'll have a go. The reference to the fondness for ovine romancing can quite clearly be seen as an insult born out of different backing for different football clubs. The other reference is more sinister and pervading of some aspects of Scottish society. It is part of a societal attitude that freely and openly discriminated against a section of our society simply because of that section's choice of how they worshipped their God. How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I tried to get an answer as to why "sheepshagging " was acceptable and "fenian " wasn't. I can't really remember the answer I got,but i know what you mean. In other points made following your comment. 1: I get called a khunt all the time 2: I know someone that got lifted at the semi and has apparently been banned until his court appearance in August,although I have only heard this through the grapevine. Not 100% sure but I think if you call someone a you can be charged with Breach of the Peace. Pretty sure the Police would find something to charge you with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I tried to get an answer as to why "sheepshagging " was acceptable and "fenian " wasn't. I can't really remember the answer I got,but i know what you mean. In other points made following your comment. 1: I get called a khunt all the time 2: I know someone that got lifted at the semi and has apparently been banned until his court appearance in August,although I have only heard this through the grapevine. Exactly my point mate. Either this sort of stuff offends you or it doesn't. I'm not for one second suggesting sectarian behaviour is acceptable, far from it, just genuinely wondering why people think one type of sectarian abuse being dished is fine, yet are near apoplectic with rage at other form of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'll have a go. The reference to the fondness for ovine romancing can quite clearly be seen as an insult born out of different backing for different football clubs. The other reference is more sinister and pervading of some aspects of Scottish society. It is part of a societal attitude that freely and openly discriminated against a section of our society simply because of that section's choice of how they worshipped their God. How's that? What happens if you think that God is a sheep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What happens if you think that God is a sheep? Might as well........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I tried to get an answer as to why "sheepshagging " was acceptable and "fenian " wasn't. I can't really remember the answer I got,but i know what you mean. In other points made following your comment. 1: I get called a khunt all the time 2: I know someone that got lifted at the semi and has apparently been banned until his court appearance in August,although I have only heard this through the grapevine. 2: Polis misusing their police bail powers. They will agree to "Let ye oot" on condition you don't go near a football stadium until you're up in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 2: Polis misusing their police bail powers. They will agree to "Let ye oot" on condition you don't go near a football stadium until you're up in court.What if you say no? Surely you can't be held for months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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