The Elite versus the "Riff Raff"

[N4Footsoldier]

Please note the title of this topic isn't there to cause any offence, I picked the terminology up from some humourous posts from social media following the raft of arguments over allocations, points and the sales schedule for the Euro 2024 tickets. Joking aside, there has been an ugly side to the debate over the last few days between SSC members (leaving the SSC themselves out of it), which hopefully should eventually gloss over as a storm in a teacup. I’d also like to stress that most of the below should be considered my own opinion but more a summary of what I’ve already heard.

I wanted to create a space to share my own thoughts on the whole situation and for others to gather opinions respectfully on it all. In terms of my own perspective, I am on 30 points now after starting from 0 points in late 2017, missing only 1 home game in that time and accruing many points through going to away games which mostly went down to zero points through the 2018-19 period when we were shite. That said, I hope to give a balanced view of the happenings of the last few days.

The whole incident came up when of 10,000 tickets allocated to SSC members, the SSC would provide access codes to those on 32-12 points, approximately 7800 people. For perspective, a regular sales schedule for smaller away day allocations normally starts at 32-23 points, or 1000 people, depending on the allocation we get. Let’s call this set of people “The Elite”. The sensitivity here was exacerbated by the excessive disparity in pricing between FF and Cat 3 and above tickets for the opening game v Germany.

The initial widespread gripe from the Elite was the exposure they had to the pricing, now being pitched in direct competition with close to 7000 additional people for the cheaper tickets, and people who some of them may have considered as not being deserving of such an opportunity given the years of commitment and money spent to attend so many games to accrue said points. Especially for those who could be seen as “glory hunting” over the last 3 years when the team has done well, which has thickened the pyramid of the points table.

Digging into that argument, in fairness, following Scotland has never been as easy in the last 20 years as it has been now in terms of the team’s success. People on 23+ points have undoubtedly travelled far and wide to places where we either knew we would lose, didn’t fancy ourselves for a result, or in the worst scenario, unexpectedly lose. People who have been through years and decades of that could have seen the ticket release as a slap in the face in favour of those who haven’t “paid their dues” as much. There is also the common myth that Elite members are “loaded”, which in some instances may be true, but there are considerable sacrifices made by most of them to travel the world supporting Scotland.

Make no mistake, no one forces anyone to go on Scotland trips. And in doing so, you have to balance up other commitments like relationships, family, work, money, even club teams etc. While the Elite can arguably say they have “earned it” through all these considerations I wouldn’t say it is the be all and end all. Others may see it as a bit sad the extent to which people go to support Scotland and are quite happy to support the team more casually. Then you have people who don’t stay within reasonable commuting distance from Glasgow, who need to take days off work and spend some extortionate amounts on domestic public transport or fuel to attend home games, for which, thankfully loyalty points are now given. I was quite happy about this myself having not been able to accrue away points or go to away games when I was much younger despite going to most games throughout my teenage years.

Nowadays I live in England with easy access to many cheap routes and connecting flights to Europe. I also have the ability to work from home from my Mum’s house in Glasgow, originally being from there. So I can attend both home and away relatively more easily without such high costs or annual leave commitments as many people in more rural Scotland for example. Despite having to travel to Glasgow from 400 miles away for home games, all things considered I do have things relatively easy.

The argument against the Elite regarding the sales schedule would be that the purpose of the loyalty point system ensures the guarantee of an opportunity to buy tickets within the amount allocated, NOT the guarantee of a cheaper ticket than everyone else. This is an argument that I can also get behind in that sense.

Basically all I’m saying is that despite being considered in the “Elite”, I can see both sides of the argument. The Elite members quite rightly have a voice with the SSC due to their long-standing commitment at substantial personal cost, but we set a poor precedent if some 1000 people have a far heavier sway than the rest of the combined 37000+.

My hope is that this will all be forgotten, after all some of today’s riff raff will be tomorrow’s elite, and given the average ages across the spectrum of the points ladder, that needs to be considered for the long term future of the Tartan Army.              

[Toepoke]

Good post 👍

Gauging loyalty can be tricky. I'm only on 14 points at the moment but I've been subscribing to the club since the 90s.

The way I see it, everyone who received codes on Thursday was guaranteed a ticket for each game, and to me that's fair enough. What is unfair was UEFA's ridiculous price bands for the Germany game.

If we qualify for the later stages there could be a smaller allocation to the SFA, so those on high points will be at an advantage there (as they should be).

 

[Orraloon]

I don't think you quite understand what "Elite" really means. The proper "Elite" don't have to worry about the points system. 

[LoganRoy]

It made me happy knowing a 30 pointer didn't get any Fans First tickets 😄

[Texas Pete]

Nowhere in the SSC membership T&Cs does it state that accruing more points will give you access to cheaper tickets. Sales always open to points brackets determined by how many tickets have been allocated. If the SSC had decided to tier the sale further where would they draw the line? Would UEFA even allowed them to do this? I suspect they wanted the tickets gone ASAP.

Changing the terms of SSC membership at the last minute to suit “the elite” would not have been fair on people with 12-22 points as they may have went to more games if they had known the change was going to happen.

If the SSC decide to change the rules then we will all need to accept it but until then “the elite” will just need to suck it up and accept that going to more or less every game only guarantees you a ticket and not a cheap one. 

Surely “the elite” would want a better view at these games anyway rather than slumming it behind the goals? 

For context I have quite a high number of points but do not consider myself part of “the elite” and I do not think I should have been guaranteed a cheaper ticket ahead of a 12 pointer. 

[dougiemacfarlanearran]

3 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Nowhere in the SSC membership T&Cs does it state that accruing more points will give you access to cheaper tickets. Sales always open to points brackets determined by how many tickets have been allocated. If the SSC had decided to tier the sale further where would they draw the line? Would UEFA even allowed them to do this? I suspect they wanted the tickets gone ASAP.

Changing the terms of SSC membership at the last minute to suit “the elite” would not have been fair on people with 12-22 points as they may have went to more games if they had known the change was going to happen.

If the SSC decide to change the rules then we will all need to accept it but until then “the elite” will just need to suck it up and accept that going to more or less every game only guarantees you a ticket and not a cheap one. 

Surely “the elite” would want a better view at these games anyway rather than slumming it behind the goals? 

For context I have quite a high number of points but do not consider myself part of “the elite” and I do not think I should have been guaranteed a cheaper ticket ahead of a 12 pointer. 

Well said 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Rich NATA]

I'm a fairly high pointer, but I've no problem with the how the SSC went about it.

As others have said, we're guaranteed tickets; we're not guaranteed the cheap tickets.

As I said the other day, this wouldn't even be a discussion if the tickets were priced €30, €50, €70 and €90

UEFA are to blame for the worry and upset caused. Not the SSC.

[macwomble]

12 minutes ago, Rich NATA said:

I'm a fairly high pointer, but I've no problem with the how the SSC went about it.

As others have said, we're guaranteed tickets; we're not guaranteed the cheap tickets.

As I said the other day, this wouldn't even be a discussion if the tickets were priced €30, €50, €70 and €90

UEFA are to blame for the worry and upset caused. Not the SSC.

I’m a high pointer and don’t have any problem with the way these tickets allocated at all. 
 

 

The main reason why is because I got Fans First for all 3 games!! 😜

[macwomble]

I think the pricing structure the problem here more than the points distribution. It’s not our fault we were drawn in position A2. National associations should have been given their tickets for this game at the same prices as all other group matches. It’s gonna have to one helluva opening ceremony to justify the €400 price difference in the top price category!!

[Rich NATA]

14 minutes ago, macwomble said:

I’m a high pointer and don’t have any problem with the way these tickets allocated at all. 
 

 

The main reason why is because I got Fans First for all 3 games!! 😜

That's right, you go and upset all the people on here who were less fortunate than yoursel 😄

Ya sick fuck 😄😄😄

[aaid]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Nowhere in the SSC membership T&Cs does it state that accruing more points will give you access to cheaper tickets. Sales always open to points brackets determined by how many tickets have been allocated. 

This x 1000.  That’s how it’s always worked, I’m amazed anyone would think it would be any different.

This whole elite thing is a load of bollocks anyway.  It started as a wind up for the wanks who have zero self awareness.

I stopped going six years ago so I’ve no points.  However before that for about 25 years I would probably have been in that category as in the years I didn’t go to every game I was missing one or two.

It started as a joke because, in the odd occasion when there was a big game was an oversubscribed - actually it was more in the build up to a game as funnily enough everybody who wanted a ticket got one, you see these sort of complaints.

”I’m a massive Scotland fan but <insert personal tale of woe> I haven’t been going as much, so I won’t get a ticket but these “jocky come latelys/points harvesters/middle class wanks/people who can fly to Japan” are stopping me from getting a ticket”

Points harvesters was the biggest myth going.  In the 2000s and 2010s when Scotland were pish, absolutely rank, and couldn’t qualify for love nor money.  What exactly were people actually buying tickets with no intention of going, what tickets did they think they’d be missing out on.

When I was a regular ten pointer I used to think, all the people who are in the same boat as me are at this game as well, I can see them here.

This week I’ve seen it all playing out on Facebook.  Guys you wouldn’t trust to cross the road by themselves complaining about the cost of tickets, flights, hotels, beer, food, trains, hookers, whatever.   It’s the fucking European Championships in a foreign country. Of course it’s going to be more expensive than a game at Wembley and two games at Hampden.

 

[PapofGlencoe]

I've only seen good natured joshing and people happy to be going to the first away finals in decades

Don't think we need to be stoking up the idiots who will always cause a problem.

It's going to be a great trip, I'm sure. Looking forward to it

[From_Dundee_to_Ancoats]

Great post and actually refreshing.

At end of the day this is the way they have  allocating them can't change it.

In club  football for my circumstances,for finals if you meet the criteria. Your guaranteed a final ticket. You then apply for the price category you want. If you don't get it you could end up with an expensive one.

But  you get the option to apply due to attending all cup games and buying home cup matches. They don't take aways etc unless oversubscribed.

This is what the ssc have done effectively.

Maybe they should of run a ballot first off but its not feasible.

The stuff i have seen on Facebook this week has been uterly ridiculous.

I can see both sides of the argument I agree with and I'm on 20 points.

Do I think people make sacrifices to attend games yes. I know people who hammer overtime, don't go on summer holidays, as thr football trips are their life. Doesn't mean they are rich.this im speaking of experience in. I dont go out,im currently doinf as much overtime as i can, i dont buy takeaways, i spend all my money on football. Club and country but that's my choice.

So some of the sniping on social media saying if  they go all the aways they can afford the expensive tickets is ridiculous. It seems nowadays the first response to say Is oh tory behaviour and try and make it political just to justify going to alot of aways. I took out a loan to go to the 2008 european cup final. Paid it off years ago but was something at time i felt i had to do.

In same breath  not just scotland matches wise,people are happy to whack £40 on domino's every weekend, go out on piss all time but then say can't afford stuff. People prioritise for these trips.

I agree some people have families and can't prioritise trips. I get that. Coming from a family who i grew up idolisingy my  old man because he took me to every game. When I got older and heard from my mum,how he left us with no food,because he had lost a bag with all the rent money whilst on a euro away it makes you realise about priorities.

At same time the sniping from people who do go and the self entitlement has got really bad in our support. Saying well you only go home games and 1 away we are better than you and deserve cheaper tickets for example :

Ironically there are people who go every away game but don't go to home games so to say people who only go to home games aren't loyal is ridiculous. In the  same breath I know people who travel up from Plymouth for home games which are effectively an away match for them.

The fan club as great as everyone is,when together as one is awful at times. People think they are a bigger scotland fan because they wear a feather on their head,  people think they are better because they wear a football shirt to the game. Someone dares to wear a bucket hat well its like they've gone down the road in a gimp suit.

At end of the day there's different ways to show you are a scotland fan without being a prick.

I know someone in club football who has missed 1 game home game  in 40 years including home,away euro and pre season.  Does he shout about it no, does he let everyone know no he doesn't.

This week has shown different levels of loyalty.  Lower level points buzzing to get tickets yet spending €400 euros for first game, 150 for second and 150 on third. Something that maybe 12+pointers wouldn't of done  in first place moaning they don't have priority.

At end of day. I hope after this initial ridiculous Facebook reaction, everyone comes together again as we usually do and be scotland again because my god is it going to be one big party In Germany (Holland first if rumours are true)

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, Rich NATA said:

I'm a fairly high pointer, but I've no problem with the how the SSC went about it.

As others have said, we're guaranteed tickets; we're not guaranteed the cheap tickets.

As I said the other day, this wouldn't even be a discussion if the tickets were priced €30, €50, €70 and €90

UEFA are to blame for the worry and upset caused. Not the SSC.

Same. Good point.

 

 

[saintydave]

4 hours ago, LoganRoy said:

It made me happy knowing a 30 pointer didn't get any Fans First tickets 😄

Why?

[LoganRoy]

46 minutes ago, saintydave said:

Why?

He's someone who had a reputation for trying to fire in to vulnerable younger lassies many years ago.  Fortunately after being on the receiving end of a lassies right hook, he appeared to stop.

Still a scumbag though, so I'm glad he missed out.  

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I've only seen good natured joshing and people happy to be going to the first away finals in decades

Don't think we need to be stoking up the idiots who will always cause a problem.

It's going to be a great trip, I'm sure. Looking forward to it

Some of the stuff I have seen on here (but mainly Twitter and Facebook) hasn’t exactly been good natured although I haven’t seen anything abusive. Just some high pointers absolutely raging that they didn’t get first dibs at the cheaper tickets. I can understand that to an extent but as others have said UEFA is the guilty party here. 

Now that we all have our tickets we can start looking forward to what might be our greatest ever tournament and, as you say, it’s going to be a great trip for everyone who managed to get tickets.

Personally I cannot wait. It will be the first overseas tournament I have been to since 1998 (which I assumed would be the first of many 😂) so hopefully we can all move on from the sale and look forward to next June.

 

[Grim Jim]

Doubly glad I stay away from Twitter & Facebook!   Was pretty stressful, and some folk will have missed out on some or all tickets they wanted.

Am grateful to be going to my first away finals and perhaps my last. Even then just for what is looking like just one very quick week for 2 games.

Just think of the carnage though if we get through the group 😄

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Grim Jim

[Texas Pete]

6 hours ago, LoganRoy said:

It made me happy knowing a 30 pointer didn't get any Fans First tickets 😄

Petty nonsense 

[Diamond Scot]

As others have said, its Uefa who are to blame here for the stupid prices.

I understand that some high pointers want to feel some extra reward for their efforts however where do you draw the line? Should high pointers get 1st dibs on having tickets seated together aswell?  High points guarentees tickets, nomatter the game or stadium. Thats what the travel club was created for.

Realistically most high pointers will have got fans 1st or cat 3 tickets. The cat 3s werent out of this world stupid money. Its really the 11 pointers that have been shafted by the prices as they were basically left with missing out or remortgage.

[Squirrelhumper]

15 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

As others have said, its Uefa who are to blame here for the stupid prices.

I understand that some high pointers want to feel some extra reward for their efforts however where do you draw the line? Should high pointers get 1st dibs on having tickets seated together aswell?  High points guarentees tickets, nomatter the game or stadium. Thats what the travel club was created for.

Realistically most high pointers will have got fans 1st or cat 3 tickets. The cat 3s werent out of this world stupid money. Its really the 11 pointers that have been shafted by the prices as they were basically left with missing out or remortgage.

I'm mid 20s on points.  Paid €270 for the 3 games. Mates on less points got 3 fans first. Shit happens.

[Sempre]

I'm on 22 points and devastated to learn from the OP that I just missed out on being in the elite.

Ach the points threshold for ticket sales didn't really bother me as there's three of us who go regularly - I'm on 22, my mate is 18 and the other 16, so I would likely have had to wait for it to go down to 16 anyway as after such a long wait to qualify it'd be rubbish being in different sections.

However, I do think they could simply have began with 13-32 points. By doing that you would have needed to have gone to at least one away game to qualify. But, it's a small thing, and the three of us after a stressful 10 minutes all got fans first tickets.

There probably won't be this argument again for a generation anyway because all the future tournaments coming up won't have the same demand. I include Euro 2028 in that. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sempre

[kumnio]

Very surprised that anyone has taken anything on the Facebook groups seriously, half of them are at the windup. The riffraff thing was started by someone just looking for a reaction, people have dived in massively. 

[euan2020]

I'm on low points due to being abroad 12 hours flight from Europe this last 12 years, used to be 7-8 pointer out of 10 

high points should have got 1st dabs in my opinion 

 

[PapofGlencoe]

I think it's all a bit of a myth the elite thing,  I've never heard anyone say or imply I've "got a feather on my head so I'm a better fan" either ..

The colour, kilts, hats, tops could just be a laugh eh? ..It's like folk can't just let people enjoy themselves

The problem here is the pricing structure, nothing else.

The SCC have done everything correctly, not their fault UEFA are charging 600 euros for a football match.  It's obscene.

There will be idiots in every support but generally it'll be brilliant seeing the Tartan Army take over Germany.