England

[Auld_Reekie]

Going to stick my neck out and admit I don't have any problem with Sterling. I think he's a phenomenal player and his whole back story is fascinating. Ton of respect and the one English player I think is World Class. 

England generally though are meh. Kane is over-rated, McGuire and Stone are average, and most other players are uninspiring but solid. The obsession with Grealish especially is bizarre - I've seen nothing to justify anywhere near the hype around him. As a unit, England are OK - fit and well-drilled, hard to beat, but some way off the top tier sides IMO. A good draw and associated results have definitely played their part. For the most part though, they perform when it mostly matters and rarely slip up when they shouldn't - the inverse of Scotland unfortunately.

In terms of the penalty decision and VAR, was quite clearly never a penalty and VAR process/officials seem determined to fatally undermine it as an officiating tool. What is the point of the entire process if it cannot overturn a key decision, at a key moment, in a key game? Generally thought it had been used much more efficiently at EURO 2020 than we've seen in the Premiership, but playing complicit in such a big error seems to negate the other minor benefits. I actually thought the Kane incident in the first half was a penalty so it sort of balances out but that's not the point.

After about 30/40 minutes, Denmark looked knackered which was a shame. Early on, they looked very impressive going forward and far superior to England but the energy levels faded very quickly and the writing was on the wall when the early substitutions were required. Lot to fear in September although the more important game is Austria.

Here's hoping England get pumped good and proper on Sunday. Like Southgate a lot but the media and general hype is utterly nauseating. An England win is surely worth 10% or so to Yes though. Decisions, decisions...

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

This viewpoint of "he felt contact so was entitled to go down" is ruining the game.  The only time you're "entitled to go down" is when the contact was strong enough that you were physically unable to stay on your feet.

That is how it should be but it clearly isn't how it's being applied. And the people who supervise the refs are happy for it to continue like this. They won't be happy until they have turned it into a non contact sport. It's a totally different game to what I grew up playing and watching. And it certainly isn't an improvement IMO.

[Kirk]

16 hours ago, RDFH64 said:

So you don’t feel any shame admitting you’re team cheated to win the game, you would of be crying into your pint of warm bitter if the Danes had continuously dived, morals of a sewer rat just like Kane, Sterling & Grealish. The saddest thing is it looked like it was all part of their teams tactics & that’s cheating on an horrendous level. 

Let's not kid on if it was us and it went in our favour we wouldn't be giving a fuck, we would be delighted.

7 hours ago, morrie21 said:

All I can say is in the history of football some decisions go for you, some go against you. Constant cycle. If the commentators, who were quite frankly a disgrace last night, are happy to accept winning like that (Lee Dixon's "I don't care" comment will hopefully follow him around for the remainder of his broadcasting career) then they can't very well turn round and moan about it when they are on the receiving end.

 

Commiserations to Denmark - a terrific showing in this competition. England were the better team on the night but it was sad that the decisive moment arrived via a mistake from the referee.

As much as that is pretty wanky, as above I'd probably be saying the same if it was us.

2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'm kinda the same. 

If they win, they win. If it wasn't for the media shoving it down your throat, i don't think i'd overly care. 

Stark contract from the team with Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Beckham etc. 

I really don't want them to win, because of the media and how endless it will be, but I do have a couple of close friends who are English and I can appreciate how much it would mean to them and what a buzz they would get. I;d rather Italy won 6-0 though

[Nobby]

5 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

uefa opens disciplinary against England 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/euro-2020-england-win-denmark-uefa-b1880336.html%3famp

I hope they catch that idiot with a laser pen and ban him for life and preferably a short custodial sentence. 

[morrie21]

1 hour ago, Kirk said:

Let's not kid on if it was us and it went in our favour we wouldn't be giving a fuck, we would be delighted.

As much as that is pretty wanky, as above I'd probably be saying the same if it was us.

I really don't want them to win, because of the media and how endless it will be, but I do have a couple of close friends who are English and I can appreciate how much it would mean to them and what a buzz they would get. I;d rather Italy won 6-0 though

You'd need to apply consistency then in that when it happens to us you adopt the same shrug your shoulders attitude. If not you are a hypocrite. 

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Beyond caring now, fair play to them. Would love to feel how England fans are feeling now, but we'll never get that chance unfortunately. Light years ahead of us in development, whilst we're clinging onto hope with one or two lads every year or two, making it out of the performance schools (which I still don't hold much hope for)

I've felt for a while now that ever since England started taking youth development seriously they'd be in a position to seriously challenge for titles.  I didn't expect it to be quite this soon but that's two relatively easily run-ins in a row they've had now.  Playing at home obviously helps too(except when it's us! ).

Comparing ourselves to England is a bit unfair though.  They have invested heavily in youth development in a way we can't and their domestic league is absolutely awash with (often foreign) money.  Population-wise they're on a par with the likes of France, Germany and Italy, whereas we're far closer to a country like Denmark, who regularly qualify for tournaments, regularly produce top quality players, who won a tournament a little under 30 years ago and last night were an OG and poor penalty decision away from reaching another final.  They should be who we try and emulate.

[thesaint]

2 hours ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Going to stick my neck out and admit I don't have any problem with Sterling. I think he's a phenomenal player and his whole back story is fascinating. Ton of respect and the one English player I think is World Class. 

England generally though are meh. Kane is over-rated, McGuire and Stone are average, and most other players are uninspiring but solid. The obsession with Grealish especially is bizarre - I've seen nothing to justify anywhere near the hype around him. As a unit, England are OK - fit and well-drilled, hard to beat, but some way off the top tier sides IMO. A good draw and associated results have definitely played their part. For the most part though, they perform when it mostly matters and rarely slip up when they shouldn't - the inverse of Scotland unfortunately.

In terms of the penalty decision and VAR, was quite clearly never a penalty and VAR process/officials seem determined to fatally undermine it as an officiating tool. What is the point of the entire process if it cannot overturn a key decision, at a key moment, in a key game? Generally thought it had been used much more efficiently at EURO 2020 than we've seen in the Premiership, but playing complicit in such a big error seems to negate the other minor benefits. I actually thought the Kane incident in the first half was a penalty so it sort of balances out but that's not the point.

After about 30/40 minutes, Denmark looked knackered which was a shame. Early on, they looked very impressive going forward and far superior to England but the energy levels faded very quickly and the writing was on the wall when the early substitutions were required. Lot to fear in September although the more important game is Austria.

Here's hoping England get pumped good and proper on Sunday. Like Southgate a lot but the media and general hype is utterly nauseating. An England win is surely worth 10% or so to Yes though. Decisions, decisions...

Back story..my arse.Sterling is a horrible diving little shit.Him, Kane ,and Grealish spend the whole game looking for a way to drop to the ground after any sort of contact at all.After any sort of tackle they moan at the referee,claiming a foul and hoping that eventually he will fall for it.That's exactly what happened last night.It's in their nature to cheat.It's as simple as that.Truly horrible to watch.

[Hertsscot]

6 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

This viewpoint of "he felt contact so was entitled to go down" is ruining the game.  The only time you're "entitled to go down" is when the contact was strong enough that you were physically unable to stay on your feet.

To be honest I probably haven't looked at the laws of the game for 20 odd years but it iirc the laws didn't mention contact. They mentioned being tripped or being kicked. It's cheating, I'm not sure it's an England tactic, I hope that Southgate is more honourable the that. Maybe it's just an overflow from the league they play in.

I feel quite angry about this. Stirling has done a lot to enhance his reputation and fair play to him for that. However he cheated and in doing so deprived fellow professionals from a once in a lifetime experience and possibly associated financial rewards.  Kane and Grealish also at it and the press can't call it what it is but hide behind euphamisms when they'd be hammering Johnny Foreigner of he was doing the same. Stench of hypocrisy lies heavy.

[exile]

I reckon Sterling was trying to get a penalty unfairly; he had done it at least twice before, to me that is intentional cheating. He was looking up at the referee even as he was hitting the ground. 

Some may say "that's footbalI" and "so we won" and "we don't care what you think". But football is about rivalry and bragging rights and opinions and people want their side to be lauded, respected, recognised for being the best.

But if you keep cheating, and only win by cheating, then anything you win is tarnished. Looking back at tournament history there are teams seen as great teams, and worthy winners. And there are others who are just shown in the history book to have won, but they can never make us like or respect them for having done so.

[exile]

And... to my mind England didn't "deserve" to win. They may have have had a superior performance (up to their disputed penalty), but the team on the back foot is entitled to do what they can to hold out for a draw and we call it a stalemate and they would have earned a penalty shoot-out.

That's to say a superior perfomance (that otherwise would have resulted in stalemate) doesn't get you to deserve to win if it means you only actually win by actually cheating.

[AlfieMoon]

Some amount on sour grapes on this thread. 😂 

 

England absolutely deserved to win and I’d have expected them to score in ET even without the penalty award. 
 

Diving and cheating buggers but we wouldn’t be complaining much if it was against them or it was us getting soft penalties. 
 

I’m sure most will be all for Italy’s antics come Sunday. 

[Boynze]

5 hours ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Going to stick my neck out and admit I don't have any problem with Sterling. I think he's a phenomenal player and his whole back story is fascinating. Ton of respect and the one English player I think is World Class. 

England generally though are meh. Kane is over-rated, McGuire and Stone are average, and most other players are uninspiring but solid. The obsession with Grealish especially is bizarre - I've seen nothing to justify anywhere near the hype around him. As a unit, England are OK - fit and well-drilled, hard to beat, but some way off the top tier sides IMO. A good draw and associated results have definitely played their part. For the most part though, they perform when it mostly matters and rarely slip up when they shouldn't - the inverse of Scotland unfortunately.

In terms of the penalty decision and VAR, was quite clearly never a penalty and VAR process/officials seem determined to fatally undermine it as an officiating tool. What is the point of the entire process if it cannot overturn a key decision, at a key moment, in a key game? Generally thought it had been used much more efficiently at EURO 2020 than we've seen in the Premiership, but playing complicit in such a big error seems to negate the other minor benefits. I actually thought the Kane incident in the first half was a penalty so it sort of balances out but that's not the point.

After about 30/40 minutes, Denmark looked knackered which was a shame. Early on, they looked very impressive going forward and far superior to England but the energy levels faded very quickly and the writing was on the wall when the early substitutions were required. Lot to fear in September although the more important game is Austria.

Here's hoping England get pumped good and proper on Sunday. Like Southgate a lot but the media and general hype is utterly nauseating. An England win is surely worth 10% or so to Yes though. Decisions, decisions...

agree with most of this.

 

deserving to win is irrelevant and meaningless, as is diving for a pen. the ref awarded, var didnt overule it and they scored. thats it. of course if they concede a similar one to that in the final, they'll have no cause to complain.

personally i really, really hope they get beat, but trying to prepare myself for the worst.

the very fact that this if their first final in 55 years, that must be 25 odd tournaments, just highlights how embarrassingly awful they are as a 'big' nation... the reality is they are a mile of the big guns of europe (italy, spain, germany, france, portugal) over the course of recent history, and are on a similar par to belguim, denmark and maybe switzerland, kind of a second tier of nations in europe - which totally goes against the hype, expectation, over-congratulating themselves, population, resources etc.

[GaryWood34]

May wanna read about Raheem Sterlings “personal life” on Wikipedia before you praise his wonderful back story.

Totally regret starting this thread to be honest. Didn’t think they’d do it when I started it now completely convinced they will. 

Rank. 
 

 

 

[Mazda]

3 minutes ago, GaryWood34 said:

May wanna read about Raheem Sterlings “personal life” on Wikipedia before you praise his wonderful back story.

Totally regret starting this thread to be honest. Didn’t think they’d do it when I started it now completely convinced they will. 

Rank. 
 

 

 

Rest assured Italy will be 3-0 up at half time.

[Malcolm]

38 minutes ago, Boynze said:

agree with most of this.

 

deserving to win is irrelevant and meaningless, as is diving for a pen. the ref awarded, var didnt overule it and they scored. thats it. of course if they concede a similar one to that in the final, they'll have no cause to complain.

personally i really, really hope they get beat, but trying to prepare myself for the worst.

the very fact that this if their first final in 55 years, that must be 25 odd tournaments, just highlights how embarrassingly awful they are as a 'big' nation... the reality is they are a mile of the big guns of europe (italy, spain, germany, france, portugal) over the course of recent history, and are on a similar par to belguim, denmark and maybe switzerland, kind of a second tier of nations in europe - which totally goes against the hype, expectation, over-congratulating themselves, population, resources etc.

i dont consider england top tier... they are beneath the top nations in pedigree....

 

top nations

brazil, italy, germany, argentina

wee bit below

france, spain, holland

wee bit further below

belgium, denmark, uruaguay, colombia, portugal

then

England 😊

 

 

 

[Bino's]

Still cheats

[hamilton wanderer]

I think it’s time to start a petition.

A Scottish Bank Holiday on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday if Italy win the Euros!

[daviebee]

Is it too much to hope that whoever's in charge on Sunday will be keeping a close eye on England's antics? There must've been a few things said in refereeing circles.

[Toepoke]

I have to mention a counterpoint here that Denmark's goal should've been disallowed, their wall encroached within one metre of the English wall before the kick was taken. Under the new law that should be a free kick to the defending team.

 

[Malcolm]

lets be honest Italy are as bad if not worse than England. Original masters of the dark arts.

[TDYER63]

9 hours ago, daviebee said:

Is it too much to hope that whoever's in charge on Sunday will be keeping a close eye on England's antics? There must've been a few things said in refereeing circles.

The German ref of the Italy/Spain game was good, he didn’t stand for any shit. Italy were at it at the start but he just ignored them and they gave up their antics. 

[TDYER63]

15 hours ago, Nobby said:

I hope they catch that idiot with a laser pen and ban him for life and preferably a short custodial sentence. 

👍

[scotlad]

14 hours ago, exile said:

I reckon Sterling was trying to get a penalty unfairly; he had done it at least twice before, to me that is intentional cheating. He was looking up at the referee even as he was hitting the ground. 

Some may say "that's footbalI" and "so we won" and "we don't care what you think". But football is about rivalry and bragging rights and opinions and people want their side to be lauded, respected, recognised for being the best.

But if you keep cheating, and only win by cheating, then anything you win is tarnished. Looking back at tournament history there are teams seen as great teams, and worthy winners. And there are others who are just shown in the history book to have won, but they can never make us like or respect them for having done so.

That last paragraph reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/dYBj_qAJtRA

[scotlad]

18 hours ago, Kirk said:

Let's not kid on if it was us and it went in our favour we wouldn't be giving a fuck, we would be delighted.

As much as that is pretty wanky, as above I'd probably be saying the same if it was us.

I really don't want them to win, because of the media and how endless it will be, but I do have a couple of close friends who are English and I can appreciate how much it would mean to them and what a buzz they would get. I;d rather Italy won 6-0 though

You might well, but unless I'm mistaken you're not a pundit being paid well to give an objective view of the game. If Dixon wants to come away with pish like that he should buy a ticket and go and sit in the stands as a fan.

[Texas Pete]

15 hours ago, Malcolm said:

i dont consider england top tier... they are beneath the top nations in pedigree....

 

top nations

brazil, italy, germany, argentina

wee bit below

france, spain, holland

wee bit further below

belgium, denmark, uruaguay, colombia, portugal

then

England 😊

 

 

 

The world champions are not top tier? I think you might need to brush up on your international football.