Scotland V Croatia Match Thread

[Rolling hIlls]

I thought we played ok last night but they were better in possession.  The first game fucked us imo and \Clarke was way too defensive there.  But I do think there are positives to be taken.  I thought the strikers were starting to gel together.  Just need to find the back of the net now.  But disappointment as usual.  For the young guys on here.  Get used to it!!!

[breeks_mctavish]

8 hours ago, Stu101 said:

Agreed. For that to work Armstrong and McGregor needed to play the roll of Mount and Phillips tonight. Either (i) that wasnt the plan, or (ii) they are not disciplined enought to play that way (presuming McGinn was to play the more advanced role). Whatever it was, it was wrong and needed to be changed. It wasn't.

England having the three up front helped too, and they pressed the ball as it came out, forcing the ball to be played quicker into the centre. The Czechs picked up on this too.

Our players also picked up that the midfield wasnt working. And the result was that we reverted to the long ball.

 

A good analysis of the England game vs Croatia but not convinced we have the players to play the same formation they did. Any time we’ve played a back 4 against a top side we’ve been destroyed.

For what it’s worth, I think we need to find a goalie more comfortable on the ball. Marshall just launches it every time and we cheaply concede possession. At the other end, we need a better striker than Dykes. If we don’t always hit it long we don’t need a Dykes figure up there to challenge. He’s been decent for us the last year but he’s not the quality needed for tournament football.

I’m not sure those upgrades are currently available though.

Also, need a more disciplined midfield than last night. I think Fleck may have been a better option than Armstrong but perhaps wouldn’t have made a huge difference.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by breeks_mctavish

[Rolling hIlls]

19 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Also, need a more disciplined midfield than last night.

Ryan Jack and Gilmour.  Excited about the three amigos as well.  Hopefully Turnbull will kick on.  I don't have any doubts regarding Patterson either.  All playing at a decent level.  It's not all doom and gloom.

[breeks_mctavish]

5 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Ryan Jack and Gilmour.  Excited about the three amigos as well.  Hopefully Turnbull will kick on.  I don't have any doubts regarding Patterson either.  All playing at a decent level.  It's not all doom and gloom.

I agree. There are definitely positives for the future. 

Talking purely about last night, the midfielders you mentioned of course weren’t available. 

[ProudScot]

Agree with the assessment Clarke was out his depth this tournament and we totally missed a chance to do something.

Wonder what would have happened had we played Gilmour, Patterson from the start.

Also look up the stat about most headers won and you’ll cringe realising Clarke’s turned us into a long ball team launching the ball to Dykes (who incidentally has proven this tournament he isn’t very good). 

[Jim Beem]

Standard from us.

Bottle merchants and nowhere near the levels of passion and commitment shown by other (normal) countries of our size from quite a few of our squad. 

Scotland the brave ? 😂😂 Where did the shite come from ?    

[Mazda]

Armstrong running the ball straight over touchline is shocking at this level, especially as we had a breakaway hungry for the ball.

[Mox]

14 minutes ago, Mazda said:

Armstrong running the ball straight over touchline is shocking at this level, especially as we had a breakaway hungry for the ball.

I really like Armstrong but he was pretty dire in both games he started. In saying that, it's fairly obvious Clarke's style is one which puts safety first and creates fear and there's no doubt that then has an impact on the players.

[Mazda]

9 minutes ago, Mox said:

I really like Armstrong but he was pretty dire in both games he started. In saying that, it's fairly obvious Clarke's style is one which puts safety first and creates fear and there's no doubt that then has an impact on the players.

By all accounts he is so much better at Southampton.

Agree . the psychological aspect is everything

I have no doubt that in training,  all the players passing would be spot on, & all the chances we had last night would've been in the back of the net.

Management should understand how to get players playing at an instinctive level & not have to learn how to pass the ball at every moment. Then we will be on another level. 

That's what commentators always say when a player doesn't score when he should ( 'he had too much time to think about it')

[Mox]

6 minutes ago, Mazda said:

By all accounts he is so much better at Southampton.

Agree . the psychological aspect is everything

I have no doubt that in training,  all the players passing would be spot on, & all the chances we had last night would've been in the back of the net.

Management should understand how to get players playing at an instinctive level & not have to learn how to pass the ball at every moment. Then we will be on another level. 

That's what commentators always say when a player doesn't score when he should ( 'he had too much time to think about it')

Primarily he's got a modern and progressive coach at Southampton, that makes a huge difference.

[86glebestreet]

1 hour ago, Jim Beem said:

Standard from us.

Bottle merchants and nowhere near the levels of passion and commitment shown by other (normal) countries of our size from quite a few of our squad. 

Scotland the brave ? 😂😂 Where did the shite come from ?    

That’s so embarrassing when the papers say things like it was a brave performance from Scotland, 

[ThistleWhistle]

10 minutes ago, Mox said:

Primarily he's got a modern and progressive coach at Southampton, that makes a huge difference.

He's usually got Romeu and Ward-Prowse behind him too or is on the right so his deficiencies defensively are compensated for.   Watching him as a three struggling with 5 Croatians was only going to end one way unfortunately.  

[Third Lanark]

3 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Ryan Jack and Gilmour.  Excited about the three amigos as well.  Hopefully Turnbull will kick on.  I don't have any doubts regarding Patterson either.  All playing at a decent level.  It's not all doom and gloom.

By three amigos I presume you mean Patterson, Gilmour and Turnbull? They are now the ones we build on, even if they are not regular starters at their clubs. Jack is the one truly defensive anchor we lacked last night. Gilmour, Jack and McGregor as my middle three going forward; that means McGinn must play as an advanced mid., just behind Adams or Nisbet.

[ProudScot]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graeme-souness-slams-steve-clarkes-24377266
 

Sums it up perfectly really. 

[Templeton_Peck]

Just still cannot believe we seemed to have no plan to stop Modric. If you shackle him then we are in the game. But no we let him control the whole game. 

Surely out of possession one of the strikers is told your only focus is Modric and be a pest to him for 90 mins. Embarrassing how easy this game was for him even for the talent he has. 

Also the ease at which Perisic won 2 crucial headers in our box was very disappointing. 

[Third Lanark]

5 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

Just still cannot believe we seemed to have no plan to stop Modric. If you shackle him then we are in the game. But no we let him control the whole game. 

Surely out of possession one of the strikers is told your only focus is Modric and be a pest to him for 90 mins. Embarrassing how easy this game was for him even for the talent he has. 

Also the ease at which Perisic won 2 crucial headers in our box was very disappointing. 

Tierney's lack of height is a negative when playing him at CB. Also think Patterson is better in the air than SoD.

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

Standard from us.

Bottle merchants and nowhere near the levels of passion and commitment shown by other (normal) countries of our size from quite a few of our squad. 

Scotland the brave ? 😂😂 Where did the shite come from ?    

We don't lack bottle - a team with no bottle would have thrown in the towel after being on top then losing the first goal, they wouldn't have fought back to equalise.  They wouldn't still be trying to create chances deep into injury time when the game has long gone.

What we lack is ability.  The ability to do things like string more than a handful of passes together, retain possession, finish chances and defend cross balls into the box.

18 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

Just still cannot believe we seemed to have no plan to stop Modric. If you shackle him then we are in the game. But no we let him control the whole game. 

Surely out of possession one of the strikers is told your only focus is Modric and be a pest to him for 90 mins. Embarrassing how easy this game was for him even for the talent he has. 

Also the ease at which Perisic won 2 crucial headers in our box was very disappointing. 

 

11 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Tierney's lack of height is a negative when playing him at CB. Also think Patterson is better in the air than SoD.

During the pre-match commentary Stuart McCall and Gordon Strachan - who was called just about every name under on here when he was in charge of the team - spoke briefly about how they put someone on Modric when we played them in 2013.  We won both games.

Tierney brings so much to the team but his relative lack of height is his main weakness, particularly when defending set-pieces.  Comments about player height is something else Strachan was mocked for, because clearly heading the ball isn't a thing in football.  🙄

[Mox]

2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

We don't lack bottle - a team with no bottle would have thrown in the towel after being on top then losing the first goal, they wouldn't have fought back to equalise.  They wouldn't still be trying to create chances deep into injury time when the game has long gone.

What we lack is ability.  The ability to do things like string more than a handful of passes together, retain possession, finish chances and defend cross balls into the box.

 

During the pre-match commentary Stuart McCall and Gordon Strachan - who was called just about every name under on here when he was in charge of the team - spoke briefly about how they put someone on Modric when we played them in 2013.  We won both games.

Tierney brings so much to the team but his relative lack of height is his main weakness, particularly when defending set-pieces.  Comments about player height is something else Strachan was mocked for, because clearly heading the ball isn't a thing in football.  🙄

Strachan blamed genetics for losing football matches, he defended Adam Johnstone after he was released from prison and said last night 'you don't get beat by systems, you get beat by individuals' He does not, and I cannot stress this enough, have the first fucking clue about modern football.

[scotlad]

2 minutes ago, Mox said:

Strachan blamed genetics for losing football matches, he defended Adam Johnstone after he was released from prison and said last night 'you don't get beat by systems, you get beat by individuals' He does not, and I cannot stress this enough, have the first fucking clue about modern football.

He was clearly referring to a relative dearth of tall players when he made his genetics comment, albeit he expressed it badly.  We have Kieran Tierney, a man of average height, playing at centre-half because our options in this position are so limited.  It doesn't take a tactical genius to figure out that a, say, 6'2" attacker is going to have the edge on Tierney when it comes to defending cross balls.

I think he's quite right about individuals being more important than systems. We play a similar system to Belgium, so why aren't we as good as them? 

I don't know what Adam Johnson (I assume that's who you mean) has to do with anything though.

[ThistleWhistle]

13 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Absolutely. Our central defenders wouldn’t come out and engage, leaving us woefully short in midfield. This is the problem with a three at the back. 

Plus the few occasions they did Croatia just popped it round the corner to runners as they were swamping us in the middle.  

In fairness to our midfield three it could have been Kante, Kante and Kante and the Kante triplets would still have been blowing out their arse trying to cover half of Hampden.  

The main frustration for me was the odd occasion we managed to press their back line with any semblance of coherence they looked panicked.  McGinn ran at their young left back from about 30 yards away in the second half and he still made a mess of it.  The gap front to back was too big though for us to do it consistently.

.       

Edited June 23, 2021 by ThistleWhistle

[ceudmilefailte]

26 minutes ago, scotlad said:

We don't lack bottle - a team with no bottle would have thrown in the towel after being on top then losing the first goal, they wouldn't have fought back to equalise.  They wouldn't still be trying to create chances deep into injury time when the game has long gone.

What we lack is ability.  The ability to do things like string more than a handful of passes together, retain possession, finish chances and defend cross balls into the box.

 

During the pre-match commentary Stuart McCall and Gordon Strachan - who was called just about every name under on here when he was in charge of the team - spoke briefly about how they put someone on Modric when we played them in 2013.  We won both games.

Tierney brings so much to the team but his relative lack of height is his main weakness, particularly when defending set-pieces.  Comments about player height is something else Strachan was mocked for, because clearly heading the ball isn't a thing in football.  🙄

This continued line about lacking bottle annoys me too.

We came from behind against Austria and Israel,we outplayed England and Serbia( better teams) and we had the bottle to get back into our game last night. That shows me we show bottle, not to mention the penalty shoot outs.

I don't agree that we lack ability though, I think we lack the ability organise the players we have in the way that would get the best out of them.

[gkm_vancouver]

10 hours ago, Mitre said:

Think I'm leaving here for an extended period. There's a heavy amount of nutters on here. Don't blame folk venting especially the night but FFS.

My final 2 cents:

1. We are not good enough and were by far the worst team in our group. Rode our luck getting there but TBH qualifying is our high water mark.

2. There's too much blind loyalty in the fanbase and the thought that we can do better than expected - see the pre-tournament predictions thread as a case study.

3. The manager is a half decent club manager. However: 1 decent result (draw) with some tactical wins against our biggest rival is fine. But also 2 games where he's totally blew it. Tonight - sit off and let Modric dictate the pace of the game, persist with underperforming Armstrong (awful tonight), Not replacing beatliee SOD + Dykes. An off form Christie starting in our first match...

We have some decent young players coming through which gives us future hope but we also continually persist with some haddies that are clearly not good enough. I wish Steve Clarke all the best and it's a tough gig - you can only pish with the tadger given to you. But i feel he is somewhat out his depth and too ponderous to make changes when things are not working.

Onwards and upwards hopefully. Keep the faith 💙

An interesting yet surprisingly accurate analogy. If I could offer an addition to that - it helps if you are taught how to direct said pish when you are learning otherwise it tends to splash all over the place 

Think there may be a few joining you on that extended period away.🥴

[weekevie04]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graeme-souness-slams-steve-clarkes-24377266
 

Sums it up perfectly really. 

Souness is wanker, but he's right 100%

[ProudScot]

22 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Souness is wanker, but he's right 100%

Yep I think it’s 100% bang on what he’s said. 

[Mox]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

This continued line about lacking bottle annoys me too.

We came from behind against Austria and Israel,we outplayed England and Serbia( better teams) and we had the bottle to get back into our game last night. That shows me we show bottle, not to mention the penalty shoot outs.

I don't agree that we lack ability though, I think we lack the ability organise the players we have in the way that would get the best out of them.

There's five games you mentioned where we have 'shown bottle', how many of those games have we won?