Holyrood Elections 2021

[ThistleWhistle]

45 minutes ago, phart said:

Cause in one issue folk voted for who they wanted to (regardless of subjective views about the sanity of that)

The other folk might not have voted for who they wanted to.

I get that and it looks like it is shitebaggery given the ‘Independent’ puts them higher up the list alphabetically plus as a crank party they outperformed all the others according to that Twitter feed.  It looks like it’s being referred to the electoral commission too as it must have fooled quite a few unless they’ve tapped into a niche far right environmental movement. 

No denying it’s completely immoral on the face of it but on the other hand how many of the 133k voted ‘both votes SNP’ safe in the knowledge their list vote was unlikely to result in a seat?    Granted it’s a good few rungs below on the shitebaggery scale but when I explained the system to my parents, and how unlikely SNP were of getting on the list from North East, they switched to Green who deposed a LD and nearly got a second seat. 

Love the use of bloviating too but without it the board would be even deader than it already is - 50% of TA Specific posts would just be 'I still really like wing backs' .   

[ThistleWhistle]

52 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Point is the crank party got the 2k votes because they’ve green in their name oops so maybe the actual greens might have won the seat? 

I get that in fairness and it should be referred to the electoral commission as it is completely out of order as can't imagine a green far right group had that level of appeal legitimately.  The point would be moot and have barely even registered though had 2-3% swapped from SNP to Green on the list merely as an observation.     

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I get that in fairness and it should be referred to the electoral commission as it is completely out of order as can't imagine a green far right group had that level of appeal legitimately.  The point would be moot and have barely even registered though had 2-3% swapped from SNP to Green on the list merely as an observation.     

The other point is that the electoral commission could possibly (or maybe should probably) have foreseen this "Green" mix up, and not allowed it to happen. That is part of their job. They shouldn't have allowed a party to stand under that name. But on the two votes SNP issue, you can't blame the electoral commision for the general ignorance of the Scottish population, that's all John Swinney's fault. 

 

[Diamond Scot]

5 hours ago, thplinth said:

If you cant understand this I don't think can explain it any better.

It is like saying a referendum supporting YES with 70% support is no better than one with 50.01%. I suppose technically you are right for what that is worth here, i.e. nothing.)

Of course it is better, it far more authoritative. That is precisely why you are required to achieve a supermajority for important constitutional changes (let alone something as big as calling for independence from a Union of 300+ years).

You think you will just waltz out of that |Union with only 49.5% of the popular vote, and no majority of SNP MSPs, and only the wet arse greens making up your 'mandate'? 

Good luck with that. You will be needing it.

Genuine question. 

Why would pro indy Alba MSPs be better than pro indy Green MSPs when it comes to having a mandate for Indy 2?

Surely its about getting a Yes majority regardless of the party.

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Genuine question. 

Why would pro indy Alba MSPs be better than pro indy Green MSPs when it comes to having a mandate for Indy 2?

 

I suspect you won't get an answer to that - at least not one which is coherent or rational.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, Lamia said:

Well what do you expect when you answer a different question to the one asked.

so what exactly are you asking,spit it out

Edited May 10, 2021 by hampden_loon2878

[Orraloon]

This is turning into a Jack and Victor sketch. 

"That's no whit ah said"

"Aye, it is"

"No, it isnae"

"Whit did ye say then?"

"You tell me"

[hampden_loon2878]

Just now, Orraloon said:

This is turning into a Jack and Victor sketch. 

"That's no whit ah said"

"Aye, it is"

"No, it isnae"

"Whit did ye say then?"

"You tell me"

i genuinely have no idea what shes getting at,, probably just trying to be a smart ass

[vanderark14]

🤣🤣🤣

It's like RH v Ramy in here but with better spelling and grammar 🤣

[Lamia]

21 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i genuinely have no idea what shes getting at,, probably just trying to be a smart ass

If I could multi quote and be bothered I would but it isn't my fault you can't follow a conversation. 

[Shaundy]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Genuine question. 

Why would pro indy Alba MSPs be better than pro indy Green MSPs when it comes to having a mandate for Indy 2?

Surely its about getting a Yes majority regardless of the party.

It could be that at least some Greens have stated their indifference to Independence. Which I am sure you know that even if ONE Green MSP stated they were “meh” about Independence our state media and the yoons will be claiming the Greens are NOT a pro Independence Party. Let’s see

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Lamia said:

If I could multi quote and be bothered I would but it isn't my fault you can't follow a conversation. 

no ones asking you to multi quote are they? so unless you want to make your point,, stop boring everybody

[Lamia]

11 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no ones asking you to multi quote are they? so unless you want to make your point,, stop boring everybody

😂

[exile]

Did dark money and dirty tactics swing the Scottish election?

Inconclusive about the dark money but looks as if some donors have not reveled their sources, so who knows?

[TDYER63]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:23 PM, Freeedom said:

Yeah, you're right I know, but the general point is that there is still the perception in this country that we are subsidised by the rest of the UK. Whether it is true or not we need to have a strong economic argument in place that will give general voters the confidence that Scotland is going to do well on it's own.

There are probably a solid 30% of voters in the country who can be swayed towards independence if we can make the case and give them the confidence to vote yes. The SNP cannot just say to people that we will automatically rejoin the EU and the single market without that being confirmed by the EU, they cant guarantee that we wont have to join the Euro either. What they can and should say is that Scotland can immediately regain access to the single market through EFTA and rejoin the EU if the people choose to do so. They can also make the argument about having borrowing powers by establishing our own currency with a central bank. We are also going to have to be able to address the question about the rUK being our biggest market and how trading relations could work as an independent country. If we can answer the big economic questions coherently then we should sail to independence.

I agree with all you have said, my reply was really just aimed at people like your friends mum who think we are lucky to have such a generous UK government. 

Unfortunately I dont think we are going to get a referendum anytime soon so I hope they use the time to get answers to these questions . I felt the below link to the Guardian sums up where we currently are. 

I was concerned when I heard the UK government were preparing to pump money into Scotland , bypassing Holyrood, sticking the UJ on their projects and trying to woo voters  . But as this article says, if money is tight, which it will be,  this may not go down well in England. At the end of the day it may be the English that help us win our independence. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence

 

[Toepoke]

8 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Point is the crank party got the 2k votes because they’ve green in their name oops so maybe the actual greens might have won the seat? 

Reminds me of that by-election down south years ago when a guy stood as a "Literal Democrat" and cost the Lib-Dems the seat.

 

[Dave78]

15 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I I felt the below link to the Guardian sums up where we currently are. 

I was concerned when I heard the UK government were preparing to pump money into Scotland , bypassing Holyrood, sticking the UJ on their projects and trying to woo voters  . But as this article says, if money is tight, which it will be,  this may not go down well in England. At the end of the day it may be the English that help us win our independence. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence

 

"Even if the Scottish government were to find a way to stage a purely advisory referendum (in effect, a giant opinion poll), Westminster would not react like the Spanish authorities and send in the police to disrupt it. More likely, it would simply ignore it."

 

Is the author aware that a legal non-binding advisory referendum (or a giant opinion poll, as he put it) is exactly what the Brexit referendum was?

I don't see how Westminster can simply ignore that.

[TDYER63]

24 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

"Even if the Scottish government were to find a way to stage a purely advisory referendum (in effect, a giant opinion poll), Westminster would not react like the Spanish authorities and send in the police to disrupt it. More likely, it would simply ignore it."

 

Is the author aware that a legal non-binding advisory referendum (or a giant opinion poll, as he put it) is exactly what the Brexit referendum was?

I don't see how Westminster can simply ignore that.

Thats true, but I cant see Nicola Sturgeon going down that route unless poll after poll had shown a big shift to Yes, and at that stage you would think the UK government would need to concede to an official referendum., 

[exile]

Actually pretty depressing considering the article about 'dark money'/ 'dirty tactics' the idea that outside forces could potentially interfere unfairly in our election, and always outspend Scottish sources, and no one can or will call them out. 

Also whatever Scotland votes for, if we give the 'wrong' answer the unionist politicians and media just say no you didn't win a mandate anyway. It wasn't a victory it was a score draw...

[Caledonian Craig]

15 minutes ago, exile said:

Actually pretty depressing considering the article about 'dark money'/ 'dirty tactics' the idea that outside forces could potentially interfere unfairly in our election, and always outspend Scottish sources, and no one can or will call them out. 

Also whatever Scotland votes for, if we give the 'wrong' answer the unionist politicians and media just say no you didn't win a mandate anyway. It wasn't a victory it was a score draw...

I am more depressed at the complete unfairness that Westminster alone decides on the fate of Scotland's place in the union even above Scotland itself.

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Actually pretty depressing considering the article about 'dark money'/ 'dirty tactics' the idea that outside forces could potentially interfere unfairly in our election, and always outspend Scottish sources, and no one can or will call them out. 

Also whatever Scotland votes for, if we give the 'wrong' answer the unionist politicians and media just say no you didn't win a mandate anyway. It wasn't a victory it was a score draw...

Going to all the bother and spending  all that money yet we are such a burden on them. 
 

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am more depressed at the complete unfairness that Westminster alone decides on the fate of Scotland's place in the union even above Scotland itself.

Rather than question why we should leave, people should be asking themselves what country in the world would want to join a political union where their own government is outranked at every opportunity by a government they never vote for.  
 

 

[aaid]

Craig Murray sentenced to 8 months for contempt.

[Caledonian Craig]

44 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Rather than question why we should leave, people should be asking themselves what country in the world would want to join a political union where their own government is outranked at every opportunity by a government they never vote for.  
 

 

More to the point surely the validity of such a bill should be called into question. I have no doubt that all the terms, conditions and laws within it were compiled by, signed by and agreed to by those with a strong pro-union belief. Who was speaking on behalf on the non-unionists at that time?

[ParisInAKilt]

 

Also didn’t another reporter name one of the women in a tweet and he was only banned from the rest of the trial? 

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Going to all the bother and spending  all that money yet we are such a burden on them. 
 

Rather than question why we should leave, people should be asking themselves what country in the world would want to join a political union where their own government is outranked at every opportunity by a government they never vote for.  
 

 

It genuinely amazes me that more people in this country don't ask themselves why that might be; or maybe they do and conclude that the British government are just trying to save us from ourselves, like a concerned parent trying to help bring an off-the-rails teenager back into line.

I think it comes down to a mind-set.  Such people see the UK as their country, led by those clever English people in Westminster, and Scotland simply a region of that country.  Aye, it has its own parliament, but come on, it's not a real parliament.  It hasn't got green benches or people dressed in breeches and robes or a Big Ben; it's just for fun, like how we're allowed our own football team, but the stupid SNP have taken it over and keep trying to turn into a real thing.  Boo!

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Craig Murray sentenced to 8 months for contempt.

I was a bit surprised by that.  I thought he might have got a suspended sentence or something, plus a big fine (which would require a crowd funder to pay - naturally) but that's a similar sentence to the one given to the guy who literally did name one of the complainers.