Where are they now?

[Super_Scotlandfan]

Interesting contrast between the developments of John Fleck and the guy he plays centre mid with at Sheffield United. 

John Coutts released by Aberdeen at 16, played for Cove Rangers until he was 20 before getting his 'big' move down to England. 

To be fair to Fleck it looks like he's going to get player of the year at his club. Apparently he's had 18 assists this season. Scored this goal last night too. 

Can't be ahead of the likes of Shinnie and McLean for getting in the squad though. 

[aaid]

If Fleck continues to show form in the Championship next year then he should be considered but not before then.  He won't be the first promising youngster to lose his way a bit but get called up later in his career.  Paul Hartley and Stevie Crawford spring to mind. 

[Boynze]

Sheffield united have Stefan scougall who looked dynamite a few years ago, ESP in their decent cup run. Have not really heard of him since. Also have mark McNulty but don't know much about him

 

[PASTA Mick]

It would be interesting to look at the careers of the more successful players in that age bracket and see where their careers were at that stage and try and work out what differences there have been and why things have been better for them. 

From our current squad, Armstrong seems to be the only player from that age group. 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

It would be interesting to look at the careers of the more successful players in that age bracket and see where their careers were at that stage and try and work out what differences there have been and why things have been better for them. 

From our current squad, Armstrong seems to be the only player from that age group. 

Armstrong is probably a year too young, I think you're looking at players born in 1991.   Grant Hanley and James Forrest are probably good examples.   Forrest's wiki page says he was capped at U16 but doesn't seem to feature in the VIctory shield.

[giblet]

On 05/04/2017 at 7:24 AM, hannibal smith said:

Unless he has learned how to defend since leaving Hearts I'm guessing no.

add to that, his horrendous distribution. 

[Bino's]

On ‎05‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:12 AM, Parklife said:

He should concentrate on becoming an established first pick in an average SPFL Premiership defence, before we think about him for Scotland. He's not looked international class for about 5 years now, unfortunately. 

he didn't look international class when he was being picked by Levein to play internationally

 

[JECK]

I only just picked up on Fleck being at Sheffield Utd this week after reading this thread, thought he'd perhaps drifted out the game completely. Going to duck for cover here...if he continues next season with play like that he must have a chance. There's a wee natural turn of pace there that wasn't half impressive.

[Rab The Crab]

2 hours ago, JECK said:

I only just picked up on Fleck being at Sheffield Utd this week after reading this thread, thought he'd perhaps drifted out the game completely. Going to duck for cover here...if he continues next season with play like that he must have a chance. There's a wee natural turn of pace there that wasn't half impressive.

Don't think you're saying anything too unreasonable, if he's a regular starter in the Championship next season we'd have to look at him.

He plays in a position in which  we are very well served though.

I was hoping Murray Wallace was a stick on to go up with S'Thorpe but they'll have to negotiate the playoffs now. If they don't go up he could well move up for a few quid as he's been a standout in League 1.

[Orraloon]

19 hours ago, aaid said:

  Forrest's wiki page says he was capped at U16 but doesn't seem to feature in the VIctory shield.

Probably injured? Or, maybe the guy in charge didn't think he needed a player who just puts his head doon and runs straight into the advertising boards, for that particular game? 

[GordyA88]

5 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Probably injured? Or, maybe the guy in charge didn't think he needed a player who just puts his head doon and runs straight into the advertising boards, for that particular game? 

?

[adamntg]

On 04/04/2017 at 9:38 AM, scot scotland scottish said:

And also Thomas Cruise. Went on to have a very successful career in the film industry.

As did James Wood.  

[adamntg]

On 05/04/2017 at 7:12 PM, GHfaeGTA said:

And Kenneth albeit a bit later. Cameron was being compared to Narey by Jim McLean and as midfielder scored hat trick at Pittodrie whilst still a teenager but yes injury got the better of him

Garry Kenneth didn't get injured, just made the terrible decision to leave United for Bristol Rovers and it all went downhill from there.  He played in Sean Dillon's testimonial the other week and he can't be far off 20 stone now. 

[ProudScot]

18 minutes ago, adamntg said:

Garry Kenneth didn't get injured, just made the terrible decision to leave United for Bristol Rovers and it all went downhill from there.  He played in Sean Dillon's testimonial the other week and he can't be far off 20 stone now. 

Zlatan Ibrahimovic still says he's the best centre half he's ever faced.

Lol.

[andyD]

On 06/04/2017 at 6:16 PM, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Interesting contrast between the developments of John Fleck and the guy he plays centre mid with at Sheffield United. 

John Coutts released by Aberdeen at 16, played for Cove Rangers until he was 20 before getting his 'big' move down to England. 

To be fair to Fleck it looks like he's going to get player of the year at his club. Apparently he's had 18 assists this season. Scored this goal last night too. 

Can't be ahead of the likes of Shinnie and McLean for getting in the squad though. 

That's not a good goal.. reason being that the opposition don't do anything. The first guy runs in and goes past the ball (like an idiot) and everyone else just backs off and gives him all the space he'd like, up to and including the shot. The level of football there is embarrassing, so I'm not surprised a half decent player looks like Maradona.

Being good in League One is not a reason for a call up. He's so far down the pecking order it's barely worth thinking of his name, and even if United go up and he does managed to have a good couple of seasons in the championship, he'll still be well down the order and 27-28 years old. Sad to say I think Fleck's a wasted talent. It's taken him till 25 playing in the dregs of football to have a decent season. Certainly not what was expected when he debuted for Rangers.

[ProudScot]

7 minutes ago, andyD said:

That's not a good goal.. reason being that the opposition don't do anything. The first guy runs in and goes past the ball (like an idiot) and everyone else just backs off and gives him all the space he'd like, up to and including the shot. The level of football there is embarrassing, so I'm not surprised a half decent player looks like Maradona.

Being good in League One is not a reason for a call up. He's so far down the pecking order it's barely worth thinking of his name, and even if United go up and he does managed to have a good couple of seasons in the championship, he'll still be well down the order and 27-28 years old. Sad to say I think Fleck's a wasted talent. It's taken him till 25 playing in the dregs of football to have a decent season. Certainly not what was expected when he debuted for Rangers.

He's actually had a few good seasons at Coventry before this one to be fair to him.

He is well down the pecking order though but on this season's showing wouldn't be suprised to see him move to a bigger club.

[er yir macaroon]

13 minutes ago, andyD said:

That's not a good goal.. reason being that the opposition don't do anything. The first guy runs in and goes past the ball (like an idiot) and everyone else just backs off and gives him all the space he'd like, up to and including the shot. The level of football there is embarrassing, so I'm not surprised a half decent player looks like Maradona.

Being good in League One is not a reason for a call up. He's so far down the pecking order it's barely worth thinking of his name, and even if United go up and he does managed to have a good couple of seasons in the championship, he'll still be well down the order and 27-28 years old. Sad to say I think Fleck's a wasted talent. It's taken him till 25 playing in the dregs of football to have a decent season. Certainly not what was expected when he debuted for Rangers.

A bit harsh. He's a stand out at what is effectively Scottish Premier level. That doesn't mean he should be picked for Scotland, but if he continues to improve he would be one of many contenders.

[Bino's]

5 hours ago, ProudScot said:

He's actually had a few good seasons at Coventry before this one to be fair to him.

He is well down the pecking order though but on this season's showing wouldn't be suprised to see him move to a bigger club.

the funny thing is he'd probably be getting in the Northern Ireland squad

by probably I mean definitely

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Bino's said:

the funny thing is he'd probably be getting in the Northern Ireland squad

by probably I mean definitely

N.Ireland would have capped him at 16 and he'd have about 30-40 caps by now and probably been at the Euros in the summer. 

[Bino's]

7 hours ago, ProudScot said:

N.Ireland would have capped him at 16 and he'd have about 30-40 caps by now and probably been at the Euros in the summer. 

he's better than the legendary will grigg anyway

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, Bino's said:

he's better than the legendary will grigg anyway

Who can't get a game for Northern Ireland either!

[andyD]

20 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

A bit harsh. He's a stand out at what is effectively Scottish Premier level. That doesn't mean he should be picked for Scotland, but if he continues to improve he would be one of many contenders.

Well, you look at the list ahead of him..
For starters:
Brown, Morrison, Cairney, Armstrong, Adam, Bannan, McGinn, Dorrans, Bryson, McLean

Then in a few years (i.e. by the time he might have actually proven himself against half decent opposition) then it's likely other (and younger) players will have come thru and be staking their claims:
Jay Fulton, Ryan Gauld, Conor McGrandles, Liam Henderson, Billy Gilmour , Jack Harper, to name a few.

The gap between the english Championship and League One is probably one of the biggest in football. There's zero money in League One, and a lot in the Championship. Fleck's Sheffield United side look like being League One champions, while last seasons champions, Wigan, are pretty much down already.

Next season we can start to judge Fleck, as he'll be playing against actual professional footballers, but I'll be very surprised if he and his club don't struggle badly and are either down or fighting relegation this time next year. In 2 years he'll probably be hack scoring 'messi goals' against nobodies who can't do the basics of the game. I hope he proves me wrong, I didn't expect Paul Hartley to be as important to the national side as he was for a while there, so it's not impossible. Just doesn't seem very likely.

 

[wanderer]

38 minutes ago, andyD said:

Well, you look at the list ahead of him..
For starters:
Brown, Morrison, Cairney, Armstrong, Adam, Bannan, McGinn, Dorrans, Bryson, McLean

Then in a few years (i.e. by the time he might have actually proven himself against half decent opposition) then it's likely other (and younger) players will have come thru and be staking their claims:
Jay Fulton, Ryan Gauld, Conor McGrandles, Liam Henderson, Billy Gilmour , Jack Harper, to name a few.

The gap between the english Championship and League One is probably one of the biggest in football. There's zero money in League One, and a lot in the Championship. Fleck's Sheffield United side look like being League One champions, while last seasons champions, Wigan, are pretty much down already.

Next season we can start to judge Fleck, as he'll be playing against actual professional footballers, but I'll be very surprised if he and his club don't struggle badly and are either down or fighting relegation this time next year. In 2 years he'll probably be hack scoring 'messi goals' against nobodies who can't do the basics of the game. I hope he proves me wrong, I didn't expect Paul Hartley to be as important to the national side as he was for a while there, so it's not impossible. Just doesn't seem very likely.

 

At the moment it looks a long way off, but just look at Ikechi Anya (at similar age he had been kicking around the English lower and non-league) and went around a few clubs in Spain after being at Glen Hoddles Football Academy, and was not greeted with great enthusiasm upon his call up, yet became a vital part of the team.

I think next season will be make or break for him.

Sheffield United should not be in a league One, and it should certainly have not taken them 6 years to get back into the Championship, but think they will do ok next season.

[andyD]

6 minutes ago, wanderer said:

At the moment it looks a long way off, but just look at Ikechi Anya (at similar age he had been kicking around the English lower and non-league) and went around a few clubs in Spain after being at Glen Hoddles Football Academy, and was not greeted with great enthusiasm upon his call up, yet became a vital part of the team.

I think next season will be make or break for him.

The difference with Anya is that he bought something we completely lacked. His pace was a weapon in itself.

Fleck doesn't really offer us anything we don't already have, he's not particularly quick, but is decent on the ball and can pick a pass. Cairney and Armstrong both fit that bill, but have more goals in them it seems. So Fleck is left as a less experienced, less proven understudy who is about 6 inches shorter. At higher levels his height may well prove to be a problem as there's a risk he'll just get muscled out of games.

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, andyD said:

The difference with Anya is that he bought something we completely lacked. His pace was a weapon in itself.

Fleck doesn't really offer us anything we don't already have, he's not particularly quick, but is decent on the ball and can pick a pass. Cairney and Armstrong both fit that bill, but have more goals in them it seems. So Fleck is left as a less experienced, less proven understudy who is about 6 inches shorter. At higher levels his height may well prove to be a problem as there's a risk he'll just get muscled out of games.

Agree, I think he will need to have a really stand out season next season to be within a sniff, but as you said, there is just far to many players coming through at the moment and still a few established players not moved on yet for him to get a chance for a look.