ParisInAKilt Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Aye, then Arsenal were cheated in the 2nd leg from a winning position Was that the Van Persie sending off? Ridiclous decision. Incidentally the first half of the first leg was one of the best 45 mins of football from Barca I seen. How arsenal managed a point was incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Was that the Van Persie sending off? Ridiclous decision. Aye, it was IIRC. I mind on here at the time that folk argued that the sending off didn't make a difference (even through Arsenal were in a winning position when it happened - TAMB logic at its finest). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davied14 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Ronaldo for me, would messi be who he is without the alleged hormone therapy? Nothing alleged about it, it happened. That is the only thing that keeps me from stating Messi is the greatest ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The point made about his medical condition is valid.the drugs he utilised are banned in professional sport so he is in postion he would never have been in had he not used them. Had to stop taking them upon turning pro. It made him a bigger, stronger, faster human being. What is the difference between treating a kid with these steroid treatments to become better at a sport than an adult doing it to get the same benefits? That being said he is a fantastic talent and the footballing world would have missed out on his amazing talent. Messis treatment allowed his body to grow as it would naturally. It was a fairly serious growth deficiency he had. The treatment was completely legal in terms of his career. It has basically made him the size (height wise at least) he would be naturally without having suffered a growth deficiency. For people to say its cheating or has made him better I don't think is right. You would never know for sure either way but Barca signed him for the raw talent and ability and with the look to helping his general health. Of course they were looking at it as if they can get him to where he should be then he could be outstamdimg, but he was already pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Messi wasn't growing naturally that was the problem, hence the HGH intervention , which Barcelona agreed to foot the bill for off the back of his natural talents pre-treatment, so i assume he was a pretty tasty player for that sort of offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Messi wasn't growing naturally that was the problem, hence the HGH intervention , which Barcelona agreed to foot the bill for off the back of his natural talents pre-treatment, so i assume he was a pretty tasty player for that sort of offer. What I was trying to say but you made it simple haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Messi is better than Ronaldo for me. Pace is not skill and although Ronaldo uses his intelligently he just doesn't control a game the way Messi can. Having said that Messi isn't as good as Maradona. It's hard to say why but the closest you can get is his driving the Argentines to win the WC. Messi hasn't done anything like this on the international stage. It is probably harder to do this in modern football but nowadays you don't get to tackle so it's swings and roundabouts. Having said all of this I'd still have Edson Arantes Di Nascimento as the best ever. His imagination, flair and skill was awesome. Just watch a few of the old videos and you'll see what I mean. His achievements are astonishing when you consider it was fine to basically just kick lumps out of him during games. From a personal viewing perspective I always loved watching Zidane. It was almost like watching ballet. Have a look at the slow motion of some of his turns. Watch how he controls the ball with the sole of his foot. Absolutely phenomenal balance and control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal smith Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 i remember Hearts playing Bayern Munich in 1988/89 quarter finals, won the home leg 1-0 and narrowly lost the away leg 2-0 despite hitting the woodwork and fluffing some great chances. Bayern got the eventual winners Napoli in the semis with Careca, Alemao, Carnevale, Ferrara and of course Maradona all playing, would have been fantastic to get them at Tynecastle. For me Maradona is still the best but i think by the time Messi retires he will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 i remember Hearts playing Bayern Munich in 1988/89 quarter finals, won the home leg 1-0 and narrowly lost the away leg 2-0 despite hitting the woodwork and fluffing some great chances. Bayern got the eventual winners Napoli in the semis with Careca, Alemao, Carnevale, Ferrara and of course Maradona all playing, would have been fantastic to get them at Tynecastle. For me Maradona is still the best but i think by the time Messi retires he will be I think this video is from the warm up in the 2nd leg in Munich. http://youtu.be/4vashrNoXTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Maradona is probably more talented, but Messi is more consistent, because he's less mental! I agree that the World Cup doesn't hold quite the importance it did in the days of Pele or Maradona in the era of the champions league, but if Messi could do it at a World Cup and he's probably only got 1 more left, then he could put the argument to bed once and for all. Ronaldo has everything, pace, skill, good in the air, can strike a ball... But he's not Messi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Pele would be so angry if he seen this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcumnock Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 So would archie gemmill ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Pele would be so angry if he seen this thread The majority of us will only have seen grainy clips of Pele and read some stats. We're fortunate enough to be able to watch Messi 3 times a fortnight if we want to. By the time I was old enough to watch Maradona, he was a bloated junky. So again, you're looking at highlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The majority of us will only have seen grainy clips of Pele and read some stats. We're fortunate enough to be able to watch Messi 3 times a fortnight if we want to. By the time I was old enough to watch Maradona, he was a bloated junky. So again, you're looking at highlights. My problem with Pele is he's never slow to proclaim that he was the best ever, play down the achievements of other players and still maintains he scored over 1000 goals. There's some cons with today's tv coverage for players, if messi or Ronaldo has a poor couple of weeks everybody see's and says their best days are behind them. Apparently Messi was poor last season but scored 41 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 My problem with Pele is he's never slow to proclaim that he was the best ever, play down the achievements of other players and still maintains he scored over 1000 goals. Very true. I don't actually know a massive amount about Pele if I'm honest. I think Maradona or Messi are players you'd pay to go and see, just to see them once in the flesh. (I was actually thinking about this recently, and how I really should try and see Messi in the flesh.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The majority of us will only have seen grainy clips of Pele and read some stats. We're fortunate enough to be able to watch Messi 3 times a fortnight if we want to. By the time I was old enough to watch Maradona, he was a bloated junky. So again, you're looking at highlights. Surprised at this comment, because there's plenty of non-grainy footage of the 1970 World Cup in which Pele was outstanding. Also surprised that Johann Cruyff has been played down in this thread. He was absolutely superb in the 70's and early 80's. Check out the 1972 European Cup Final and the Holland team at the 1974 World Cup which he dragged to the final. Mind going to Love St in 83-84 especially to see him during his final season with Feyenoord. Directed the traffic in midfield that night and picked out the pass for a young upstart called Gullit to score the only goal of the game. Whatever happened to that young man, I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Surprised at this comment, because there's plenty of non-grainy footage of the 1970 World Cup in which Pele was outstanding. Aye Pele was insanely good at Mexico 70... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Maradona used to get kicked to death,Messi is a fantastic player and the modern game lends itself to his style of play . i.e. no tackling Maradona for me, his skill and swagger and what he did at Napoli and Argentina was astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Messi is better than Ronaldo for me. Pace is not skill and although Ronaldo uses his intelligently he just doesn't control a game the way Messi can. Having said that Messi isn't as good as Maradona. It's hard to say why but the closest you can get is his driving the Argentines to win the WC. Messi hasn't done anything like this on the international stage. It is probably harder to do this in modern football but nowadays you don't get to tackle so it's swings and roundabouts. Having said all of this I'd still have Edson Arantes Di Nascimento as the best ever. His imagination, flair and skill was awesome. Just watch a few of the old videos and you'll see what I mean. His achievements are astonishing when you consider it was fine to basically just kick lumps out of him during games. From a personal viewing perspective I always loved watching Zidane. It was almost like watching ballet. Have a look at the slow motion of some of his turns. Watch how he controls the ball with the sole of his foot. Absolutely phenomenal balance and control. Pretty much sums it up for me. Leading light in 2 WC finals. Booted out the tournament in 66 cos he was the main threat. Having said that of course he had some fabulous players around him. Can't believe the rough time he's getting on here though. Better than Maradona? Probably, just. Definitely better than Messi who has looked nothing too special in the World Cups he's played in. At club level Messi has no doubt prospered through having some special talents beside him. Teams can't stick 3 men on him cos Xavi or Iniesta would then have space to run riot. However, Messi is a genius and is out on his own as the best player on the planet just now. Some of the stuff against Man City was practically superhuman. Best ever? Not IMHO but there's still time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Messi looked pretty special at times in the world cup there. Shame he showed he was human in the final. Small margins eh, scores that good chance he has early on against Germany and he's a World Cup winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Too young for Pele and Maradona, so my 5 top is as follows. Messi, hasn't been himself for a couple of years, but still the best. Zidane, movement for a big man was sublime. Christiano Ronaldo, great player, but there's only one Ronaldo. Baggio, had Italy won in 1994, he would have almost won it single handed. Ibra, love him or hate him, he is brilliant IMO. From what I've seen of Pele and Maradona, I'd rather have Messi, but it's based on a few short clips only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So close to dragging an above average Argentina side to a world cup win. Remember Di Maria was out injured and Aguero wasn't match fit. Would have been his fifth goal of the tournament also. I think that's what's so special about the world cup. Once every 4 years and through injuries and loss of form it's so easy to not be in a position to be at your best when it comes around. Which all makes what Maradona, Ronaldo and Zidane have did so impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Maradona for me. If he was at his peak today he'd win the balloon thing every year. Carried a whole team to the Italian title when it was the number one league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boynze Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 a case of what might have been for ronaldo (the orig and best), look at what he achieved with his knee problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Directed the traffic in midfield that night and picked out the pass for a young upstart called Gullit to score the only goal of the game. Whatever happened to that young man, I wonder? I remember listening to Gullit talk at a Red Card For Racism event. He was asked out of all the grounds across the planet, what ground stood out as the worst he had ever encountered racism at. He picked this game at Love Street as the worst. He said as a young laddie it was truly intimidating having so many grown men hanging over the hoardings with veins popping out of their necks screaming at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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