Parklife Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's quite a leap. You're actually saying that if football didn't exist sectarianism would be less. You might be right, but how do you know that people might not just use another avenue to express their innate intolerances? I think many people adopt sectarian behaviours and outlooks as they think it makes them better Rangers fans. Obviously that's an opinion based only on anecdotal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 maybe, but not sure what other avenue would enable them to come together in their 10's of thousands and sing "up to our knees in F*nian blood* ? and without being arrested at that. only football gives them that secure platform unfortunately. Absolutely. Compare with England, they've had a hugely sectarian past, they even went to war over it, but it's now almost non existant there probably due to the fact there's no mass outlet for it (pun not intended)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's quite a leap. You're actually saying that if football didn't exist sectarianism would be less. You might be right, but how do you know that people might not just use another avenue to express their innate intolerances? I'm saying that 88% of people in Scotland say it. I would be one of those 88%. I don't know if The People would find another avenue to express their hatred, but I suspect many are drawn to it by the football club. Much as I feel obliged to like Beautiful Sunday because it's a Dundee Utd song, whereas in any other circumstance I'd turn the radio off as soon as I heard it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think many people adopt sectarian behaviours and outlooks as they think it makes them better Rangers fans. Obviously that's an opinion based only on anecdotal experience. My anecdotal experience as well. Rangers creates bigots, it doesn't just draw in the pre-bigoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 My anecdotal experience as well. Rangers creates bigots, it doesn't just draw in the pre-bigoted. I think there's a bit of chicken and egg in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think there's a bit of chicken and egg in there. Sectarianism came first. Rangers latched onto it as anti-Irish bigotry was a fairly normal part of late 19th century Scotland. Mainstream Scotland then moved on but Rangers held fast, and now attracts people to its prejudice. My opinion is it would have died out as it did in other countries without Rangers to sustain it. My take on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sectarianism came first. Rangers latched onto it as anti-Irish bigotry was a fairly normal part of late 19th century Scotland. Mainstream Scotland then moved on but Rangers held fast, and now attracts people to its prejudice. My opinion is it would have died out as it did in other countries without Rangers to sustain it. My take on it anyway. I think to say that without Rangers then anti-Catholic bigotry would have disappeared is a bit extreme. I do agree that it'd be less common in society though. I think it'd still be there with some and undoubtedly within the Orange Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_B81 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 We hate Jimmy Hill You know the rest You know the rest Has this now been deemed offensive ? Haven't heard that at a Scotland game since around France '98. When he appeared on the McCoist and MacAulay World Cup Special (awful programme incidentally), he had a good chuckle at the song rather than get offended and defended his toe-poke comment by saying "I never said it was a poor toe-poke!" Think Scotland fans mellowed to him afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Haven't heard that at a Scotland game since around France '98. When he appeared on the McCoist and MacAulay World Cup Special (awful programme incidentally), he had a good chuckle at the song rather than get offended and defended his toe-poke comment by saying "I never said it was a poor toe-poke!" Think Scotland fans mellowed to him afterwards. You can't have been to many games since France 98. Quite apparent and often until he was very ill a couple of years back. Not sure if he is dead now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You can't have been to many games since France 98. Quite apparent and often until he was very ill a couple of years back. Not sure if he is dead now. Was just going to say similar. It was certainly getting sung at games in the early noughties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Not sure if he is dead now. Jimmy's still with us. Been suffering from Alzheimer's for a few years sadly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_B81 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You can't have been to many games since France 98. Quite apparent and often until he was very ill a couple of years back. Not sure if he is dead now. Been a regular at home games since 1998 and an SSC member since 2004. The Jimmy Hill chants tailed off over a good period, not directly after France '98 but certainly became less vocal afterwards imo. Not gone yet but last I heard he's got Alzheimers and his health is deteriorating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 like Stan or not he is correct. Spot on, the bigots have won here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think to say that without Rangers then anti-Catholic bigotry would have disappeared is a bit extreme. I do agree that it'd be less common in society though. I think it'd still be there with some and undoubtedly within the Orange Order.I think this is probably accurate. The anti-Catholic bigotry pre-dates Rangers and will be here after Rangers. Not all Orangemen support Rangers. And not all Rangers supporters are Orangemen. See, I can agree when you're being sensible. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Been a regular at home games since 1998 and an SSC member since 2004. The Jimmy Hill chants tailed off over a good period, not directly after France '98 but certainly became less vocal afterwards imo. Not gone yet but last I heard he's got Alzheimers and his health is deteriorating. Pretty sure there was a rendition of this at Wembley at the last game, so definitely still about.Also heard it on a few buses from the Ferry to Hampden but that was probably about 6 or 7 years ago. Always thought it was a childish thing so sing so never have, but then again I don't sing that much compared to some due to my incredibly awful voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think this is probably accurate. The anti-Catholic bigotry pre-dates Rangers and will be here after Rangers. Not all Orangemen support Rangers. And not all Rangers supporters are Orangemen. See, I can agree when you're being sensible. ? Is it true to say that rangers may have been another Clyde etc if not embracing the religious agenda back in the day ; as queens park etc were bigger / similar size club and supportThird Lanark too maybe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Pretty sure there was a rendition of this at Wembley at the last game, so definitely still about. Also heard it on a few buses from the Ferry to Hampden but that was probably about 6 or 7 years ago. Always thought it was a childish thing so sing so never have, but then again I don't sing that much compared to some due to my incredibly awful voice. Yes agreeCould never stand it Even during its height It would likely be deemed offensive these days tho I would assume From the same stable as Paul Wilson You know the rest Peanuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Is it true to say that rangers may have been another Clyde etc if not embracing the religious agenda back in the day ; as queens park etc were bigger / similar size club and support Third Lanark too maybe ? I don't know tbh. Very possibly. I'm just not that old. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 They're up to their knees in Fenian blood again tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Compare & Contrast. 60,000 at CP last night, fantastic atmosphere, not a dodgy song or chant to be heard, praised europe wide. Tonight, usual songbook, people watching the game oot their front windae. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Is it true to say that rangers may have been another Clyde etc if not embracing the religious agenda back in the day ; as queens park etc were bigger / similar size club and support Third Lanark too maybe ? That theory - which is certainly an interesting one - is more about what would have happened had Queens Park turned professional and not stayed amateur and that they and not Rangers would become the Scottish establishment club.That would have been at the turn of the 20th century and the religious aspects didn't come to the fore for another 20 years or so. Edited February 20, 2015 by aaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Compare & Contrast. 60,000 at CP last night, fantastic atmosphere, not a dodgy song or chant to be heard, praised europe wide. Tonight, usual songbook, people watching the game oot their front windae. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Do you ever write a sensible post? Praised "Europe wide"? "Watching the game oot their front windae" as if Celtic and other Scottish clubs don't play at similar grounds. How the mighty have fallen indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I blame the schools, having split schools really causes issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Do you ever write a sensible post? Praised "Europe wide"? "Watching the game oot their front windae" as if Celtic and other Scottish clubs don't play at similar grounds. How the mighty have fallen indeed... And the songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 And the songs?What about them? I didn't watch the Celtic game so dunno what songs were sung. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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