Indyref 2 (2)

[Orraloon]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

1. cherry, no to tainted

2. robertson, equally divisive

3. forbes, to young and new baby?

4. Flyn, who i would like but at westminster

5.Jim fairlie, no one has mentioned but he would be good as a deputy

6.Swinney, tried and diddnt work

7. Whitford, really not sure and at Westminster

8. fergus ewing, steady but boring 

 

Sounds like you are in the wrong party. You are campaigning against the new leader before they have even stood for election. 

[RDFH64]

12 hours ago, aaid said:

State of this.   
 

 

More snake than conga 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[stocky]

I think it will be Angus with probably Kate as deputy.

 

[aaid]

13 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I bet you a few MSPs will

 

Maybe I have a point.

The pair of them are shameless.

 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

Maybe I have a point.

The pair of them are shameless.

 

jo and ash seem to be making sensible points here.

[phart]

Gerrymandering isn't sensible.

[Orraloon]

This could be an interesting election and possibly very open. This will be the first time a new leader has been elected by such a large number of members. In the good old days AS was elected mainly by people very close to the SNP party machine. Mainly hard working activists. This time round a large proportion of the voters will be relatively new members most of whom have little or no routine engagement with their local SNP branches. There are positives and negatives to increasing party membership. It should be relatively easy for some fairly obscure candidates to get the required 100 nominations if they wanted to.

[Freeedom]

18 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Not only you. 

And no, I am not saying the voters are the only ones to blame . I am saying there are a large number of people in this country who will never, ever , vote for independence as they are too frightened or blindly devoted to the union. Westminster has stamped over Scotland for years , this has been highlighted by the SG yet polls are barely changing. Media attention focusing on every SG mistake but turning a blind eye to successes.

I have said this before, in other areas of the UK the 2  major parties have friends in some parts of the media. In Scotland the SNP have zilch. Can you begin to understand how exhausting that must be? 
Voters either dont, or cant , be arsed to drill any further than Daily Mail click bait. 

If the next leader turns this around I will be the first person on here to take my words back. I am being realistic here and cannot see one MSP that  is capable of running this country. 

To be quite frank it is not my generation that needs to be convinced about the merits of independence, it's yours.

The media will largely always will be opposed to independence, they were opposed between 2011 and 2014 and we moved from 30% to 45% support. We increased support despite the medias constant bombardment of criticism because we for the most part ran a good campaign. The problem is that we haven't done any positive campaigning on independence for the last 9 years and that is largely down to the inaction of the SNP under Sturgeons leadership.

I do feel some sympathy for her in the way she has been treated by certain segments of society and the media but regardless of that, she has failed to move us any further forward. I hope that whoever it is that is elected is able to run the positive case for independence and make it a priority because we can only do so much with our hands tied behind our back.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Freeedom

[Orraloon]

50 minutes ago, aaid said:

Maybe I have a point.

The pair of them are shameless.

 

It would be interesting to se how they plan to change the rules in such a short period of time. It could be done, I suppose, but I'm not sure there will be much support for it on the NEC.

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

This could be an interesting election and possibly very open. This will be the first time a new leader has been elected by such a large number of members. In the good old days AS was elected mainly by people very close to the SNP party machine. Mainly hard working activists. This time round a large proportion of the voters will be relatively new members most of whom have little or no routine engagement with their local SNP branches. There are positives and negatives to increasing party membership. It should be relatively easy for some fairly obscure candidates to get the required 100 nominations if they wanted to.

The last "contested" election was in 2004 although with Salmond returning 75% of the vote - getting just under 5000 - votes - it certainly wasn't tight.

This certainly needs a long campaign though, you're right about any number of the candidates being largely unknown to the membership.

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It would be interesting to se how they plan to change the rules in such a short period of time. It could be done, I suppose, but I'm not sure there will be much support for it on the NEC.

I suspect there will be zero support but I've been wrong before.  NEC meeting today, we should find out later.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Sounds like you are in the wrong party. You are campaigning against the new leader before they have even stood for election. 

i am not campaigning for anything, my vote would got to Forbes or Flynn but unsure as yet if either will stand...who would you have? again we have sturgeon to blame for not being organized to hand over the torch, something that her predecessor did. she has ran to the hills and not given two shits what she has left in her wake. 

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i am not campaigning for anything, my vote would got to Forbes or Flynn but unsure as yet if either will stand...who would you have? again we have sturgeon to blame for not being organized to hand over the torch, something that her predecessor did. she has ran to the hills and not given two shits what she has left in her wake. 

I'll wait and see who the candidates are and then pick the best one.

On your other point, I can see both sides of that argument. AS had a succession plan in place and we got NS, unopposed. You think that ended up being a disaster. AS had so much power that he effectively appointed the next leader. NS chose to leave the field wide open for anybody to put themselves forward and campaign for the job. It could be argued that that is a much more democratic way to do it.

Many of us are not happy about the way the Tories have imposed PM, after PM, after PM upon us based on the votes of a few right wing reactionaries. Is effectively allowing one person to decide the next leader any better?

[aaid]

20 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

 she has ran to the hills and not given two shits what she has left in her wake. 

Ha, ha, ha.  Absolutely classic.  You've been calling for to go for years and now you want her to stay.

 

[slasher]

23 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

There are too many cunts in Scotland - that's the crux of it

The SNP under Sturgeon could have given everyone in Scotland £1000 a week plus free beer and there would still be cunts

Breaking the spell of 300 years of brainwashing, bigotry and the onslaught of London media daily is a barrier i doubt we will ever cross

Sadly, I think this is spot on.

[slasher]

5 minutes ago, aaid said:

Ha, ha, ha.  Absolutely classic.  You've been calling for to go for years and now you want her to stay.

 

She has absolutely earned the right to go whenever she wants but no one can deny that she will be leaving the independence movement in a right mess!

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, slasher said:

She has absolutely earned the right to go whenever she wants but no one can deny that she will be leaving the independence movement in a right mess!

If you think it's all about one person then maybe you are right.  If it is all about one person though, we don't deserve independence.

[Alibi]

13 minutes ago, aaid said:

If you think it's all about one person then maybe you are right.  If it is all about one person though, we don't deserve independence.

Indy is not about any one person.  Need to regroup and select someone who can develop as a decent first minister but also at least try to progress to indy.  I haven't read all the posts from yesterday or today, but as a possibly left field suggestion, I understand that Ash Regan is standing for the leadership.  i have been impressed by her when I've heard her speak, and the fact that she is not tainted by association with the flawed GRA bill would be a positive in the eyes of the electorate (who are largely opposed to the GRA although in reality it's the self ID bit that they're actually opposed to I think).  I think plumping for one of the tired old dinosaurs such as Swinney or Robertson would be a huge mistake.  Having a young female leader would almost certainly mean that some of the lost membership who have moved to Alba would return, and it gives an opportunity to get the SNP back on track.

I think NS has made the right decision.  She is getting out before her popularity disintegrates completely.  Her best before date has been reached, in fact exceeded.  It needs a fresh face to lead the indy movement, and preferably a team effort rather than one individual.

[Malcolm]

14 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Indy is not about any one person.  Need to regroup and select someone who can develop as a decent first minister but also at least try to progress to indy.  I haven't read all the posts from yesterday or today, but as a possibly left field suggestion, I understand that Ash Regan is standing for the leadership.  i have been impressed by her when I've heard her speak, and the fact that she is not tainted by association with the flawed GRA bill would be a positive in the eyes of the electorate (who are largely opposed to the GRA although in reality it's the self ID bit that they're actually opposed to I think).  I think plumping for one of the tired old dinosaurs such as Swinney or Robertson would be a huge mistake.  Having a young female leader would almost certainly mean that some of the lost membership who have moved to Alba would return, and it gives an opportunity to get the SNP back on track.

I think NS has made the right decision.  She is getting out before her popularity disintegrates completely.  Her best before date has been reached, in fact exceeded.  It needs a fresh face to lead the indy movement, and preferably a team effort rather than one individual.

i think ash Regan would be a great appointment.  She could start by telling the greens where to go.

[Ally Bongo]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

if angus robertson is the new leader, independence and the SNP is finished, well and truely dead, we need a leader that unites the party, takes a deep breath and stables the ship

Well you better get used to the idea as out of all the MSPs he is the only one with the proven credentials to do it and wants to do it

The criteria should be who can we run a referendum/defacto referendum with as leader that could win it

In other words - Who could you see as the initial FM of an Independent country ?

So when you offer up the likes of Keith Brown, Ash Regan, Joanna Cherry, John Swinney et al you are living in fantasy land

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, phart said:

Gerrymandering isn't sensible.

It isn't, and like Brant alluded to in his post, by suddenly flinging open the doors you don't know who is signing up and to what end.

[scotlad]

31 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Well you better get used to the idea as out of all the MSPs he is the only one with the proven credentials to do it and wants to do it

The criteria should be who can we run a referendum/defacto referendum with as leader that could win it

In other words - Who could you see as the initial FM of an Independent country ?

So when you offer up the likes of Keith Brown, Ash Regan, Joanna Cherry, John Swinney et al you are living in fantasy land

Robertson has a statesmanlike air about him that may or may not be superficial but should probably be enough to elevate him above whichever drongo leads Labour or the Tories into the next election.  He, or rather, his wife, would cause a lot of consternation for many within the party and the wider movement though, so he wouldn't be a unifying force.  It's also unclear at this stage how much his approach would differ from Sturgeon's.

Brown is a solid politician but lacks charisma (and also has a daft wife).  Swinney knows the ropes but most probably wouldn't want the job.  Cherry is a clever woman but would be massively divisive; Regan is Cherry without the intellect.

For me, Stephen Flynn is the best of the realistic options but he's marooned down in WM.  Of course, there's nothing to stop the SNP leader being an MP rather than an MSP, but it is less than ideal.  In effect you'd be looking a sort of caretaker FM at HR which I don't think is a great idea if you're aiming to show rather than tell the public how iScotland could do things differently.

I thought Scotland's current goalkeeping options were hideously limited but this is ridiculous!  😂

[AlfieMoon]

3 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Robertson has a statesmanlike air about him that may or may not be superficial but should probably be enough to elevate him above whichever drongo leads Labour or the Tories into the next election.  He, or rather, his wife, would cause a lot of consternation for many within the party and the wider movement though, so he wouldn't be a unifying force.  It's also unclear at this stage how much his approach would differ from Sturgeon's.

Brown is a solid politician but lacks charisma (and also has a daft wife).  Swinney knows the ropes but most probably wouldn't want the job.  Cherry is a clever woman but would be massively divisive; Regan is Cherry without the intellect.

For me, Stephen Flynn is the best of the realistic options but he's marooned down in WM.  Of course, there's nothing to stop the SNP leader being an MP rather than an MSP, but it is less than ideal.  In effect you'd be looking a sort of caretaker FM at HR which I don't think is a great idea if you're aiming to show rather than tell the public how iScotland could do things differently.

I thought Scotland's current goalkeeping options were hideously limited but this is ridiculous!  😂

I tend to agree with that about Robertson. I think he could also possibly appeal to some more middle classes than Sturgeon did.

Depends on his policies and vision though so will be interesting to see what comes out in the competition. Him with Forbes could be a good pairing but I’ve no idea if they are in any way likely to be aligned.  

I don’t think any of those other names are realistic. 

[Ally Bongo]

9 minutes ago, scotlad said:

 

Brown is a solid politician but lacks charisma (and also has a daft wife). 

 

 

Christina McKelvie is his partner/burd and not his wife

She is also my MSP and of those that live in Larkhall

No mean feat

[Ally Bongo]

ALTHOUGH she is not saying so, I suspect Nicola Sturgeon’s surprise resignation is in some part due to the flak she has been obliged to suffer over the Gender Recognition Reform Bill in recent weeks. This straw has finally broken our First Minister, in spite of the fact that the bill had support from every political party.

Here is a question for all the women who have been so vocal in condemning this well-intentioned piece of legislation as an attack on the rights of women, and vehemently criticising Sturgeon for it.

Now that you have all played your part in finally hounding her from office (good work, ladies!), which one of you is volunteering to take her place and stand up to all the daily abuse that seems to go with the job? It’s not a victory for women’s rights – if you ask me it’s a catastrophic own goal.

And to all the men who regularly write in The National, both as correspondents and as columnists (the ones who have been bumping their patronising gums for years, in the apparent belief that if only they had been in charge, if only Sturgeon would listen to them, Scotland would have been independent yesterday), you must all be delighted. With Nicola out of the way the men can take control again and we’ll be independent by next week. Won’t we?

Well I doubt it. Here is my prediction. The reforms attempted in the GRR Bill which have sparked the current stushie will in the very near future become official UK Labour policy (this is already on the cards in Wales).

Following this, BBC Scotland will work to convince the bewildered Scottish public that the spread of fear and alarm that they did everything to encourage and nothing to counter was in fact grossly exaggerated, and that gender recognition reform is largely a good and progressive thing for which the Scottish Labour Party will take credit (with some justification – they supported it after all!) and their electoral fortunes in Scotland will revive.

At this point some vague, empty, doomed-to-fail promises of enhanced devolution willmake the running in Scotland and the good citizens of England will do their customary trick of letting Labour back into Westminster for a while to clean up the Tories’ mess.

Then the prospect of independence really will disappear into the long grass until a leader emerges in Scotland with the stamina, strength, patience and popularity of Nicola Sturgeon. I hope I’m wrong but we could be waiting a long time for that. Perhaps I’ll just have to wait for all the useful idiots of my generation to die off. Today’s youngsters seem to have a lot more courage and vision than their parents. Trouble is I might be dead too.

Maggie Milne
Dundee