Indyref 2 (2)

[Malcolm]

41 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Thanks.

I think a lot of people in my age group are much more left leaning than Sturgeon and her generation are. A lot of us are working our asses off for poverty wages and can't get on the property ladder whilst she's allowed Edinburgh to turn into the Airbnb capital of the UK. 

She's left us in the middle of nowhere in regards to independence and you have to say, is that it, was this really the plan? She's fucked off and left us with a "Thanks and good luck" after 9 years of nothing.

It's obvious the walls were closing in on her politically and I'm sure we'll find out the real reasons for her departure in the next few weeks. All hell is going to break loose in the SNP, it's going to be a war. Sturgeon managed to keep the lid on that for years but now it's going to blow and people will start speaking their mind.

 

i agree with you that there is a risk of split within the party. The problem is that the one uniting force is independence, however there is a vast difference of view across the political spectrum.  I imagine I am much more right wing than you and I would naturally vote Tory probably but have voted snp in the past.  Where is the right wing party that offers independence?

[Orraloon]

Mairi McAllan might have a chance if she decides to stand. Might be worth a punt for somebody who likes to bet on an outsider?

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Mairi McAllan might have a chance if she decides to stand. Might be worth a punt for somebody who likes to bet on an outsider?

I think she is potentially a future leader but is possibly a bit too soon for her, she was only elected in 2021 so it would be some rise.  Anytime I’ve seen her she’s always impressed me.  Very sharp.

That said, she went straight into a ministerial position and prior to that was a special advisor to Sturgeon.

I wouldn’t rule out voting for her if she stood though. 

[Ally Bongo]

I would vote for her

Angus Robertson must be champing at the bit waiting on someone putting their name forward so he isnt the first

[TDYER63]

14 hours ago, Freeedom said:

You talked about the responsibility falling to voters so I made the point that my generation voted in favour of independence, it is generally the older generation who are set in their ways and unwilling to bend to reason.

The fact I don't think she did enough to campaign for indy and others think she did too much means nothing, most things in politics are subjective. And really, who is it that thinks she talked about it too much? That would be the people who don't back independence or her political opponents. Given where we currently are in terms of progressing towards our goal, do you actually think she's done a good job? I think on the issue of independence she failed miserably.

Politically I'm a progressive, socialist. My politics are far to the left of Nicola Sturgeon and although I think she talked a good game on social issues to appease the middle classes, ultimately on an economic front she is a centrist, neoliberal who let down the people in society who needed her support the most. Her handling of social inequality, poverty, drug deaths and covid were horrendous and I think she got away with murder.

I think we all know the demographic that needs convinced and that its  not the young. 
 

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

Thanks.

I think a lot of people in my age group are much more left leaning than Sturgeon and her generation are. A lot of us are working our asses off for poverty wages and can't get on the property ladder whilst she's allowed Edinburgh to turn into the Airbnb capital of the UK. 

She's left us in the middle of nowhere in regards to independence and you have to say, is that it, was this really the plan? She's fucked off and left us with a "Thanks and good luck" after 9 years of nothing.

It's obvious the walls were closing in on her politically and I'm sure we'll find out the real reasons for her departure in the next few weeks. All hell is going to break loose in the SNP, it's going to be a war. Sturgeon managed to keep the lid on that for years but now it's going to blow and people will start speaking their mind.

 

So if the young are not the ones needing convinced, how is the SNP  supposed to convince an older demographic ( who are generally more small ‘c’ )  with left wing ideas ? Your posts are contradictory. 
I personally am , without a shadow of a doubt, left wing  at heart but probably more centre in my head. I was brought up in a time where people looked after each other without  checking their bank account to see if it would harm them financially by doing so. 
It will never leave me , I still prefer Paisley to where I live now and it sickens me to see the huge amounts of money rich people spend on utter shite rather than use a bit of excess cash to help the more needy . However unfortunately society has definitely moved more towards the centre than in my days. 

I think you could be a bit off the mark on how many left wing/ socialist people there are in Scotland. Our opinions are influenced by those who surround us to a degree as we are drawn to these people as they share similar views. You may think there are a lot of socialist people because they are in your friends and family network but I dont think its  a true reflection of the population as a whole. Perhaps that is because I am older and in the job I do I come across more Tories than I would choose to, but I think this idea of Scotland being socialist is a bit of a myth.   I think there are people who call themselves left wing as it makes them sound a good person ( not you , I think you sound a genuinely good person) but ask them to pay a few pound  a month more in tax and they are up in arms. 

So , if you dont vote SNP next time , who will you and other socialists vote for to achieve a more socialist society? Labour under Keir Starmer ???   Lets be honest none of the small parties are going to do anything. And did you think Alex Salmond would have brought about a socialist Scotland? I am not sure that was his political vision. 

I truly feel sorry for your generation , I can see another housing market crash at some point and a lot of pain .

Many people in my generation have been thrown under the bus too right enough. Not everyone was able to take advantage of things like home ownership in the 80’s and 90’s and the financial reward that brought, and the Waspi women situation is a disgrace. 

What would you do regarding policies if you were in charge ? How would you address the issues you feel strongly about and what would you sacrifice to pay for these changes ? 

As an aside, do you agree with free meals for all school kids and free prescription for all ? 

I have a place at this online independence congress tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how that goes given this weeks news .

 

[TDYER63]

13 hours ago, exile said:

If that puts me on the same side as Malcolm and Tartan, then so be it. Strange times 😅

😂😂

[ParisInAKilt]

We still got to pretend the SNP are left wing?

[aaid]

This isn't going to be a popular opinion but I was struck the other day by something Kevin Pringle said in an interview I caught with him.

I have always viewed this as being the definition of the irresistible force meeting the immoveable object, with the irresistible force being the will of the Scottish People and the immoveable object being the UKG.   

I've never really considered that the immoveable object could not be shifted, over years it has proven not to be in numerous different cases.  However, it only moves when it feels it has no other option.  I saw someone mention a need to renew the mandate, why?, it's pretty clear that the UKG doesn't respect the current mandate or any of those election victories since 2014.  My personal view is that it's more uncomfortable for Labour to block in the same way but I don't see them being anymore amenable given the current level of support.

This brings me to the point Kevin Pringle made.  He was talking about the need to focus less on the how but rather to start to focus on the why.  He pointed to the Constitution Convention on Devolution, which started in 1989 and ultimately delivered devolution in 1999 - after an referendum win in 1997.   That referendum had a majority of 3-1 which was impossible to deny.  However, that support wasn't built up during the referendum campaign, it was done in the years before - with no democratic avenue to express that view - that was the only thing to do.

That doesn't need the SNP to be the ones doing that on their own - and probably it shouldn't be - but they are an important part of the wider movement.

The reason why the SNP membership skyrocketed in the wake of the 2014 referendum was because there were many many people who had never seen the need to join a political party or who had been members of one of the British parties and had become disillusioned by them over the years.   They recognised that the fight for independence would now be in the party political arena.   A lot of the non-aligned people who'd come to the fore in 2014 were part of that, others who had obtained a degree of influence or celebrity became very bitter and/or went on the grift.

Maybe we've all been focussed too much on the process, too impatient.  You can argue the point about whether that is the leader's fault or not but if you take the view that there is a Yes movement, then the movement needs to also look at itself.  We need to get away from this idea that seems to have settled in that there needs to be some sort of democratic event to actually do campaigning.  Its time to get back to talking to those that don't agree with us and trying to convince them.

Maybe this is why Nicola Sturgeon has stood down, she realises that no matter what she does, people have already made their minds up - fairly or unfairly - about her and she's not going to shift enough voters.

Two questions that any leadership candidate proposing a democratic event as the magic bullet needs to be asked and answer.   How can we build the support to win it decisively and if the UKG then says no - what next?

[aaid]

12 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

We still got to pretend the SNP are left wing?

They are certainly left of you.

[aaid]

18 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I think we all know the demographic that needs convinced and that its  not the young. 
 

So if the young are not the ones needing convinced, how is the SNP  supposed to convince an older demographic ( who are generally more small ‘c’ )  with left wing ideas ? Your posts are contradictory. 
I personally am , without a shadow of a doubt, left wing  at heart but probably more centre in my head. I was brought up in a time where people looked after each other without  checking their bank account to see if it would harm them financially by doing so. 
It will never leave me , I still prefer Paisley to where I live now and it sickens me to see the huge amounts of money rich people spend on utter shite rather than use a bit of excess cash to help the more needy . However unfortunately society has definitely moved more towards the centre than in my days. 

I think you could be a bit off the mark on how many left wing/ socialist people there are in Scotland. Our opinions are influenced by those who surround us to a degree as we are drawn to these people as they share similar views. You may think there are a lot of socialist people because they are in your friends and family network but I dont think its  a true reflection of the population as a whole. Perhaps that is because I am older and in the job I do I come across more Tories than I would choose to, but I think this idea of Scotland being socialist is a bit of a myth.   I think there are people who call themselves left wing as it makes them sound a good person ( not you , I think you sound a genuinely good person) but ask them to pay a few pound  a month more in tax and they are up in arms. 

So , if you dont vote SNP next time , who will you and other socialists vote for to achieve a more socialist society? Labour under Keir Starmer ???   Lets be honest none of the small parties are going to do anything. And did you think Alex Salmond would have brought about a socialist Scotland? I am not sure that was his political vision. 

I truly feel sorry for your generation , I can see another housing market crash at some point and a lot of pain .

Many people in my generation have been thrown under the bus too right enough. Not everyone was able to take advantage of things like home ownership in the 80’s and 90’s and the financial reward that brought, and the Waspi women situation is a disgrace. 

What would you do regarding policies if you were in charge ? How would you address the issues you feel strongly about and what would you sacrifice to pay for these changes ? 

As an aside, do you agree with free meals for all school kids and free prescription for all ? 

I have a place at this online independence congress tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how that goes given this weeks news .

 

A while ago, I saw someone describe the Scottish political psyche - if there is such a thing - as something like this.  You put the interests of yourself and your family first but want everyone to have a fair chance and don't like to see anyone left behind.  I  think that's a pretty accurate sweeping generalisation.   

It's certainly a mile away from the state of mind in England.

There is no real appetite in Scotland for far left policies, its really a minority sport.  That said, I do like that there is a far-left voice as it acts as a bit of a conscience over the issues, even if what they suggest as solutions are completely impractical and they are a bit of a shower of loonballs.   

I saw a great one recently that just summed them up entirely.  It was in reply to a tweet about Zelensky asking for more weapons and it was to do with how Zelensky had welcomed the election of Netanyahu because he wanted to get weapons and should instead be showing solidarity with the Palestinians.   Now I'm all for solidarity with the Palestinians but I'm guessing that if you are Zelensky and being attacked by a nuclear power, you'll take any help you can get.  They lack any sense of nuance and context.

[Orraloon]

30 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I have a place at this online independence congress tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how that goes given this weeks news .

 

Is that still happening, tomorrow?

[TDYER63]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

A while ago, I saw someone describe the Scottish political psyche - if there is such a thing - as something like this.  You put the interests of yourself and your family first but want everyone to have a fair chance and don't like to see anyone left behind.  I  think that's a pretty accurate sweeping generalisation.   

It's certainly a mile away from the state of mind in England.

There is no real appetite in Scotland for far left policies, its really a minority sport.  That said, I do like that there is a far-left voice as it acts as a bit of a conscience over the issues, even if what they suggest as solutions are completely impractical and they are a bit of a shower of loonballs.   

I saw a great one recently that just summed them up entirely.  It was in reply to a tweet about Zelensky asking for more weapons and it was to do with how Zelensky had welcomed the election of Netanyahu because he wanted to get weapons and should instead be showing solidarity with the Palestinians.   Now I'm all for solidarity with the Palestinians but I'm guessing that if you are Zelensky and being attacked by a nuclear power, you'll take any help you can get.  They lack any sense of nuance and context.

Agree with all of this. 

[TDYER63]

10 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Is that still happening, tomorrow?

Yes , I got an email earlier confirming this. I think its right that it does as its not supposed to be all about the SNP , Mike Russell is the only SNP representative to my knowledge. Not sure if the agenda will change a bit though. 

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Agree with all of this. 

I agree with much of this too.

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

I agree with much of this too.

I suspect my view of what constitutes far left politics is very different from yours though, so you don’t really agree with it.  

[PapofGlencoe]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

This isn't going to be a popular opinion but I was struck the other day by something Kevin Pringle said in an interview I caught with him.

I have always viewed this as being the definition of the irresistible force meeting the immoveable object, with the irresistible force being the will of the Scottish People and the immoveable object being the UKG.   

I've never really considered that the immoveable object could not be shifted, over years it has proven not to be in numerous different cases.  However, it only moves when it feels it has no other option.  I saw someone mention a need to renew the mandate, why?, it's pretty clear that the UKG doesn't respect the current mandate or any of those election victories since 2014.  My personal view is that it's more uncomfortable for Labour to block in the same way but I don't see them being anymore amenable given the current level of support.

This brings me to the point Kevin Pringle made.  He was talking about the need to focus less on the how but rather to start to focus on the why.  He pointed to the Constitution Convention on Devolution, which started in 1989 and ultimately delivered devolution in 1999 - after an referendum win in 1997.   That referendum had a majority of 3-1 which was impossible to deny.  However, that support wasn't built up during the referendum campaign, it was done in the years before - with no democratic avenue to express that view - that was the only thing to do.

That doesn't need the SNP to be the ones doing that on their own - and probably it shouldn't be - but they are an important part of the wider movement.

The reason why the SNP membership skyrocketed in the wake of the 2014 referendum was because there were many many people who had never seen the need to join a political party or who had been members of one of the British parties and had become disillusioned by them over the years.   They recognised that the fight for independence would now be in the party political arena.   A lot of the non-aligned people who'd come to the fore in 2014 were part of that, others who had obtained a degree of influence or celebrity became very bitter and/or went on the grift.

Maybe we've all been focussed too much on the process, too impatient.  You can argue the point about whether that is the leader's fault or not but if you take the view that there is a Yes movement, then the movement needs to also look at itself.  We need to get away from this idea that seems to have settled in that there needs to be some sort of democratic event to actually do campaigning.  Its time to get back to talking to those that don't agree with us and trying to convince them.

Maybe this is why Nicola Sturgeon has stood down, she realises that no matter what she does, people have already made their minds up - fairly or unfairly - about her and she's not going to shift enough voters.

Two questions that any leadership candidate proposing a democratic event as the magic bullet needs to be asked and answer.   How can we build the support to win it decisively and if the UKG then says no - what next?

Agree with much of this and have thought it for some time.  Nicola has done the cause a favour stepping down as the strategy was a non-starter without the leg work done and she couldn't turn back in office without causing serious damage to the movement.

If we go down a defacto route, the population need to unequivocally support this route in obvious numbers.  We weren't there yet.  She possibly thought she could carry people with her; it didn't come.  We need to get indy support into the high 50s at the least.  Frustrated people may feel that's harsh but it's where we are.  And it shouldn't be hard to get to if we're serious about a new, separate state.  No other country is tottering about 43-54% in favour of their sovereignty.  The UK Govt can quite rightly call us a divided nation at this point.  The supreme court response on the streets was half arsed, if that.  It didn't have 2014 vibes.  It was SNP activists taking to themselves.  In a time of a Westminster brick wall, we're not getting London, Berlin or Paris approval as a divided country.  We need to do the hard part first - convince our own  people.

The grassroots movement is in disarray beit due to the patronising SNPers, the overzealous Greens or the hateful Alba.  I generalise but they are all, to some extent, to blame.  In 2014, you lost count of the number of people saying "im indy but not SNP" voting Yes.  The idea of doing a defacto vote without some kind of non-partisan campaign and strategy across parties (baked into the electorate's minds) is folly.  The leg work had not been done.  

The movement needs time to heal.  Create a national convention.  The barrier to Yes cannot be set at SNP support.  It cannot be set at support for the Scottish government.  It minimises support, not maximising it.  I'll vote SNP but there are loads of soft Nos that won't.  It's not the Alba vote we need, it's the soft undecideds that don't like the SNP that we need... we live in a world of needing high 50/60% support now.  So it's back to convincing people.

PS I salute Nicola, really dignified speech and didn't deserve the flack she was getting from her own side.  Useful idiots galore.  Taking the positive, hopefully a new face can unite the clans!

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by PapofGlencoe

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I suspect my view of what constitutes far left politics is very different from yours though, so you don’t really agree with it.  

aye, far left policies like tax rises!  😂

 

basically if it comes from Ross Greer it’s far left!

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

aye, far left policies like tax rises!  😂

 

basically if it comes from Ross Greer it’s far left!

FTR, I’m not talking about the Greens, I’m talking about the likes of RISE and Tommy Sheridan - who I think is a total chancer btw.   

Edited February 17, 2023 by aaid

[Alibi]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

A while ago, I saw someone describe the Scottish political psyche - if there is such a thing - as something like this.  You put the interests of yourself and your family first but want everyone to have a fair chance and don't like to see anyone left behind.  I  think that's a pretty accurate sweeping generalisation.   

I think that's an excellent way of putting it.  I think most reasonable people would fall into this category.

[Freeedom]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I think we all know the demographic that needs convinced and that its  not the young. 
 

So if the young are not the ones needing convinced, how is the SNP  supposed to convince an older demographic ( who are generally more small ‘c’ )  with left wing ideas ? Your posts are contradictory. 
I personally am , without a shadow of a doubt, left wing  at heart but probably more centre in my head. I was brought up in a time where people looked after each other without  checking their bank account to see if it would harm them financially by doing so. 
It will never leave me , I still prefer Paisley to where I live now and it sickens me to see the huge amounts of money rich people spend on utter shite rather than use a bit of excess cash to help the more needy . However unfortunately society has definitely moved more towards the centre than in my days. 

I think you could be a bit off the mark on how many left wing/ socialist people there are in Scotland. Our opinions are influenced by those who surround us to a degree as we are drawn to these people as they share similar views. You may think there are a lot of socialist people because they are in your friends and family network but I dont think its  a true reflection of the population as a whole. Perhaps that is because I am older and in the job I do I come across more Tories than I would choose to, but I think this idea of Scotland being socialist is a bit of a myth.   I think there are people who call themselves left wing as it makes them sound a good person ( not you , I think you sound a genuinely good person) but ask them to pay a few pound  a month more in tax and they are up in arms. 

So , if you dont vote SNP next time , who will you and other socialists vote for to achieve a more socialist society? Labour under Keir Starmer ???   Lets be honest none of the small parties are going to do anything. And did you think Alex Salmond would have brought about a socialist Scotland? I am not sure that was his political vision. 

I truly feel sorry for your generation , I can see another housing market crash at some point and a lot of pain .

Many people in my generation have been thrown under the bus too right enough. Not everyone was able to take advantage of things like home ownership in the 80’s and 90’s and the financial reward that brought, and the Waspi women situation is a disgrace. 

What would you do regarding policies if you were in charge ? How would you address the issues you feel strongly about and what would you sacrifice to pay for these changes ? 

As an aside, do you agree with free meals for all school kids and free prescription for all ? 

I have a place at this online independence congress tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how that goes given this weeks news .

 

It's not contradictory at all, I would have liked the SNP to be much more progressive in governing Scotland but when it comes to convincing the undecideds about independence you need to give them confidence and belief that there is a secure plan in place around issues like the economy, pensions and currency. It is in my view that independence is for everyone in the country regardless of their political persuasion. And that is an important point that the SNP have failed to get across because they think their vision is the only vision for an independent Scotland. I would want to see them propose the nationalisation of the energy sector and a much faster transition towards renewables. They need to protect people from the invidious profiteering of the oil and gas industry. That's a vote winner amongst everyone but there is a lot more they could have done to give voters confidence in independence, it doesn't necessarily have to be a left wing argument.

I'm 37, my mum is 61 and you remind me a little bit of her. She grew up in a working class household and likes to think of herself as left wing but she's not. As she has gotten older her views have shifted to the right and when I try to explain to her how much more difficult things are for my generation than it was for hers, she rolls her eyes. When she was my age she bought the house she is still living in with my dad for £145k, that property is now worth nearly half a million. Since then wages have stagnated and the cost of everything else has massively increased. When she bought the house she was a teacher and my Dad worked for the AA, I have three degrees and work in a technical job and I could never dream of affording the house they live in. Millennials and Gen Z have been shafted by the capitalist system, people of your generation who managed to get a foothold in society like my parents have assets and are largely oblivious to a lot of the difficulties in society that younger people face and nobody in the current political spectrum in Scotland is talking about it, it's a disgrace. The under 40 generation are the first generation that have actually moved more to the left as they have gotten older and that's because they are so much poorer than their parents are at the same age.

I agree with you, Scotland is not left wing at all I never suggested it was. Boomers are still very much in charge but the tide is going to shift in the next decade as my generation eventually start having more of a voice. I just hope we do not also swing to the right as we start to attain more assets.

Of course I agree with free school meals and free prescriptions, but those are policies that just scratch the surface of what we could be doing in Scotland to make peoples lives better, we need to start thinking much bigger about what we want Scotland to look like in 10, 20, 50 years. Where's the vision for our kids education, the health service, the economy, the energy sector and our whole working practice and work life balance in general? It's the job of the government to sell us all on the vision of what Scotland can be in the future, give them that and they will vote yes.

 

5 hours ago, Malcolm said:

i agree with you that there is a risk of split within the party. The problem is that the one uniting force is independence, however there is a vast difference of view across the political spectrum.  I imagine I am much more right wing than you and I would naturally vote Tory probably but have voted snp in the past.  Where is the right wing party that offers independence?

there should be a right wing party in favour of independence, I would be happy to see that. But lets not beat around the bush, people who are right wing and generally resistant to any kind of change, it's not easy to marry the two ideas.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Freeedom

[Orraloon]

7 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

It's not contradictory at all, I would have liked the SNP to be much more progressive in governing Scotland but when it comes to convincing the undecideds about independence you need to give them confidence and belief that there is a secure plan in place around issues like the economy, pensions and currency. It is in my view that independence is for everyone in the country regardless of their political persuasion. And that is an important point that the SNP have failed to get across because they think their vision is the only vision for an independent Scotland. I would want to see them propose the nationalisation of the energy sector and a much faster transition towards renewables. They need to protect people from the invidious profiteering of the oil and gas industry. That's a vote winner amongst everyone but there is a lot more they could have done to give voters confidence in independence, it doesn't necessarily have to be a left wing argument.

I'm 37, my mum is 61 and you remind me a little bit of her. She grew up in a working class household and likes to think of herself as left wing but she's not. As she has gotten older her views have shifted to the right and when I try to explain to her how much more difficult things are for my generation than it was for hers, she rolls her eyes. When she was my age she bought the house she is still living in with my dad for £145k, that property is now worth nearly half a million. Since then wages have stagnated and the cost of everything else has massively increased. When she bought the house she was a teacher and my Dad worked for the AA, I have three degrees and work in a technical job and I could never dream of affording the house they live in. Millennials and Gen Z have been shafted by the capitalist system, people of your generation who managed to get a foothold in society like my parents have assets and are largely oblivious to a lot of the difficulties in society that younger people face and nobody in the current political spectrum in Scotland is talking about it, it's a disgrace. The under 40 generation are the first generation that have actually moved more to the left as they have gotten older and that's because they are so much poorer than their parents are at the same age.

I agree with you, Scotland is not left wing at all I never suggested it was. Boomers are still very much in charge but the tide is going to shift in the next decade as my generation eventually start having more of a voice. I just hope we do not also swing to the right as we start to attain more assets.

Of course I agree with free school meals and free prescriptions, but those are policies that just scratch the surface of what we could be doing in Scotland to make peoples lives better, we need to start thinking much bigger about what we want Scotland to look like in 10, 20, 50 years. Where's the vision for our kids education, the health service, the economy, the energy sector and our whole working practice and work life balance in general? It's the job of the government to sell us all on the vision of what Scotland can be in the future, give them that and they will vote yes.

 

there should be a right wing party in favour of independence, I would be happy to see that. But lets not beat around the bush, people who are right wing and generally resistant to any kind of change, it's not easy to marry the two ideas.

I'm not surprised yer maw just rolls her eyes at you. 😂

[Freeedom]

2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I'm not surprised yer maw just rolls her eyes at you. 😂

how old are you? 😛

[hampden_loon2878]

i spoke about the internal polling that had gave the snp hierarchy the shits, well the latest yougov poll confirms i was correct, and before anyone says its because she has resigned, it was carried out prior to her resignation, the snp with a 3% lead over labour,, scary times 

[Ally Bongo]

4 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i spoke about the internal polling that had gave the snp hierarchy the shits, well the latest yougov poll confirms i was correct, and before anyone says its because she has resigned, it was carried out prior to her resignation, the snp with a 3% lead over labour,, scary times 

It is fucking bullshit

For the SNP to only have a 3% lead over Labour it would mean the staunch SNP vote stayed at home

 

[hampden_loon2878]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

It is fucking bullshit

For the SNP to only have a 3% lead over Labour it would mean the staunch SNP vote stayed at home

 

a very reliable source had told me of the worry the internal polling had shown a good few days prior to her resignation,, aaid said it was bullshit as he does but turns out it wasn't,, we really nead a leader to give us a united party,, get back to basics and go from there, not chasing after vote losing policies.