Indyref 2 (2)

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, Shaundy said:

Embdy watching Question time🤣

Zipped through it. Half the show talking about deleted WhatsApps, f**k me is that the level of political discourse these days?

Was encouraged by the audience comments at the end over the idea of giving up free stuff, the consensus being it will cost you more and other services won't improve.

 

Edited February 2 by Toepoke

[Alibi]

Well said the woman who described the treatment of Nicola Sturgeon compared to the treatment of the likes of Johnson and Sunak as a witch hunt.  And the man who was ranting about shutting down the Scottish parliament got roundly booed by the audience.  Fairly sure you could work out which football team he supports.

Kate Forbes handled herself fairly well, although as usual Fiona Bruce repeatedly interrupted her or talked over her; Malcolm Offord and Fraser Nelson on the other hand were given free rein to spout their lies and distortions without interruption.

[Grim Jim]

16 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Thanks for posting that. It sums up the whole charade. I don't expect to see shrill headlines about 'Union' Jack in tomorrows Express or Mail.

Convenient for the media that Jack contrived to appear after Sturgeon.   Allowed them to trumpet their pish with a straight face.

[PapofGlencoe]

20 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Convenient for the media that Jack contrived to appear after Sturgeon.   Allowed them to trumpet their pish with a straight face.

Agree

PS do you know your signature means fan as in cooling device, it makes me smile every time i see it 😅.

fan of football is hincha, seguidor .  keep it though please,

 

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, Alibi said:

 Malcolm Offord and Fraser Nelson on the other hand were given free rein to spout their lies and distortions without interruption.

Hadn't seen Fraser Nelson for a while but he seems to have had an absolute headsgone. Referring to the "Scottish Executive" and calling Scotland a mafia state under the SNP! The independence debate has absolutely ruined some people.

 

[Grim Jim]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Agree

PS do you know your signature means fan as in cooling device, it makes me smile every time i see it 😅.

fan of football is hincha, seguidor .  keep it though please,

 

Aye, it's what Google Translate came up with when I was trying to write a note in Portuguese once upon a time.

I'm keeping it to blow some of the hot air around here and keep my cool 😎

[PapofGlencoe]

23 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Aye, it's what Google Translate came up with when I was trying to write a note in Portuguese once upon a time.

I'm keeping it to blow some of the hot air around here and keep my cool 😎

Need a bigger fan for that about here!!😆

i didn't even pick up it was Portuguese actually! was thinking Spanish. 

 

[Hertsscot]

3 hours ago, Alibi said:

And the man who was ranting about shutting down the Scottish parliament got roundly booed by the audience.  Fairly sure you could work out which football team he supports.

Probably mine 🤦‍♂️

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Hadn't seen Fraser Nelson for a while but he seems to have had an absolute headsgone. Referring to the "Scottish Executive" and calling Scotland a mafia state under the SNP! The independence debate has absolutely ruined some people.

 

I have never heard him speak. Pathetic to bring this up I know , but wft kinda accent does he have ? Definitely one you would want to slap. 
 

3 hours ago, Alibi said:

 

Kate Forbes handled herself fairly well, although as usual Fiona Bruce repeatedly interrupted her or talked over her; Malcolm Offord and Fraser Nelson on the other hand were given free rein to spout their lies and distortions without interruption.

I didn’t see it last night but watched it on youtube today as it was from Glasgow. At least Bruce’s union bias was outshone by her political party bias as she gave Ian Murray a bit of a hard time too. He was pretty shit given Labour’s ‘ revival’. 

I didn’t think it was as bad as it could have been . What really did ring clear to me is how different Scotland is to England with regards to social conscience. I know the program was from Glasgow so probably a bit skewed , but it was heartening to hear the support from the audience regarding progressive taxation and policies.

Well , apart from the older woman in the fuschia pink jacket and matching lipstick that had brought her shopping list of tax bands and complaints and who didn’t think young ones should get free travel because ‘ she never got it and her parents had to pay for it.  Boo hoo. Someone might want to tell her half a century has passed and folk no longer wear matching jackets and lipstick either .

Sorry that last bit was unnecessary, I just dont like this ‘ we didn’t get help so why should other folk get it  / life is supposed to be hard ‘ mentality that some older folk have. 
 

 

Edited February 2 by TDYER63

[Ally Bongo]

19 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Well , apart from the older woman in the fuschia pink jacket and matching lipstick that had brought her shopping list of tax bands and complaints and who didn’t think young ones should get free travel because ‘ she never got it and her parents had to pay for it.  Boo hoo. Someone might want to tell her half a century has passed and folk no longer wear matching jackets and lipstick either .

Sorry that last bit was unnecessary, I just dont like this ‘ we didn’t get help so why should other folk get it  / life is supposed to be hard ‘ mentality that some older folk have. 
 

 

[Broath Boy]

Not her, about 15 mins earlier pink lippy, she’s a cracker.

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I have never heard him speak. Pathetic to bring this up I know , but wft kinda accent does he have ? 

He reminds me of Keanu Reeves' attempt at a posh English accent in that Dracula film years ago.

 

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Broath Boy said:

Not her, about 15 mins earlier pink lippy, she’s a cracker.

[Ally Bongo]

[Freeedom]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:36 AM, TDYER63 said:

Totally agree.

I would like to know the grand plan of the ‘dont vote for the SNP ‘  independence supporters. 
Do people really think that ‘teaching them a wee lesson’ is in any way going to advance independence? When Labour are back in power in the UK and Scotland and supported by anti independence parties on all sides . 
I would like someone to elaborate on how this is going to work.

 

 

Would you like to explain to me how voting for the SNP is going to get us independence? They clearly don't have a clue, or any plan of action. 

If the SNP get hammered at the next election they will have to have a reset and listen to the thousands of independence voters that have abandoned them, they are beholden to the voters... we don't owe them anything.

[stocky]

32 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Would you like to explain to me how voting for the SNP is going to get us independence? They clearly don't have a clue, or any plan of action. 

If the SNP get hammered at the next election they will have to have a reset and listen to the thousands of independence voters that have abandoned them, they are beholden to the voters... we don't owe them anything.

Ok. Let's go down that path .

Tell us now what they need to listen too.

What are these abandoned voters wanting the snp to do to achieve independence .

I'm genuinely interested 

 

[Hertsscot]

7 minutes ago, stocky said:

Ok. Let's go down that path .

Tell us now what they need to listen too.

What are these abandoned voters wanting the snp to do to achieve independence .

I'm genuinely interested 

 

Too often we're looking for other people to do things. For many people in Scotland indy exists as a nice dream or aspiration but that's it.  They're not prepared to do anything, go on a march, sign a petition, staff a stall, knock on doors etc. They'd like to be independent but can't be arsed.

[TDYER63]

15 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Would you like to explain to me how voting for the SNP is going to get us independence? They clearly don't have a clue, or any plan of action. 

If the SNP get hammered at the next election they will have to have a reset and listen to the thousands of independence voters that have abandoned them, they are beholden to the voters... we don't owe them anything.

You haven’t answered the question you have simply deflected it back. What realistic path do you think will win us independence after the SNP are out of government due to a protest vote or not voting  at all ? Because that is exactly what will happen . It will be a media spectacle only on par with the Queens Golden Jubilee and it will get battered home that Scotland does not want independence. It would not take long before apathy did set in. Are you willing to risk this ? 

Who said anything about being beholden or owing them anything? Yes , its an utter shit situation as no political party should be in a position where they are holding people to ransom, but people really cannot underestimate the consequences of a unionist government in Holyrood. Like it or not the only way for independence to be kept alive is for a pro indy government to be in place and with the greatest of respect to the other parties they are just not going to get the votes. 

If you really dislike them that much then go ahead  and make your stance, you are entitled to do as you want like anyone else who feels the same.  I have come close to leaving the party and just watching from the sidelines as there are things I dont agree with. But they already have a massive pressure from the constant unionist battering, even when they do right they do wrong. For me its better to be inside trying to force change than outside joining the attack. 
In my job I need to weigh up risk all the time. Weighing up the potential consequences of not voting versus voting is,  in my opinion, a risk  I am not willing to take, unless you can suggest more than that there will be a reset. 

 

[Alibi]

7 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

You haven’t answered the question you have simply deflected it back. What realistic path do you think will win us independence after the SNP are out of government due to a protest vote or not voting  at all ? Because that is exactly what will happen . It will be a media spectacle only on par with the Queens Golden Jubilee and it will get battered home that Scotland does not want independence. It would not take long before apathy did set in. Are you willing to risk this ? 

Who said anything about being beholden or owing them anything? Yes , its an utter shit situation as no political party should be in a position where they are holding people to ransom, but people really cannot underestimate the consequences of a unionist government in Holyrood. Like it or not the only way for independence to be kept alive is for a pro indy government to be in place and with the greatest of respect to the other parties they are just not going to get the votes. 

If you really dislike them that much then go ahead  and make your stance, you are entitled to do as you want like anyone else who feels the same.  I have come close to leaving the party and just watching from the sidelines as there are things I dont agree with. But they already have a massive pressure from the constant unionist battering, even when they do right they do wrong. For me its better to be inside trying to force change than outside joining the attack. 
In my job I need to weigh up risk all the time. Weighing up the potential consequences of not voting versus voting is,  in my opinion, a risk  I am not willing to take, unless you can suggest more than that there will be a reset. 

 

Agree with every word.

[StirlingEgg]

1 hour ago, Alibi said:

Agree with every word.

👍From where I'm sitting too. @TDYER63you always write considered and articulate posts that are hard to disagree with and remain diplomatic too 😋

I'm finding more recently that I'm feeling a bit more sympathetic towards the SNP. If we're all scunnered with the situation then imagine what it must be like working within it. Against a never-ending tide of shit from all sides.

Everything twisted or blown out of proportion so it's impossible to make an informed judgement on policies and debatable issues. How many damaging or iffy bills are sneaked through the UK parliament? You only find out about some concerns via the likes of the Good Law Project for example or when it's too late to address consequences. Scottish bills seem to get everybody's bit in. 

[Northern Light]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

You haven’t answered the question you have simply deflected it back. What realistic path do you think will win us independence after the SNP are out of government due to a protest vote or not voting  at all ? Because that is exactly what will happen . It will be a media spectacle only on par with the Queens Golden Jubilee and it will get battered home that Scotland does not want independence. It would not take long before apathy did set in. Are you willing to risk this ? 

Who said anything about being beholden or owing them anything? Yes , its an utter shit situation as no political party should be in a position where they are holding people to ransom, but people really cannot underestimate the consequences of a unionist government in Holyrood. Like it or not the only way for independence to be kept alive is for a pro indy government to be in place and with the greatest of respect to the other parties they are just not going to get the votes. 

If you really dislike them that much then go ahead  and make your stance, you are entitled to do as you want like anyone else who feels the same.  I have come close to leaving the party and just watching from the sidelines as there are things I dont agree with. But they already have a massive pressure from the constant unionist battering, even when they do right they do wrong. For me its better to be inside trying to force change than outside joining the attack. 
In my job I need to weigh up risk all the time. Weighing up the potential consequences of not voting versus voting is,  in my opinion, a risk  I am not willing to take, unless you can suggest more than that there will be a reset. 

 

Whether we like it or not personality politics is here to stay and even allowing for the fact that he inherited a shambolic situation, Humza Yousaf does not have it in him to inspire the "middle 20%" to move decisively towards the constant 60/40 split required that would force Westminster's hand. You could just about get away without him being inspirational if he had the ability to run a highly competent Government but looking back over the last ten years or so of his career there is little evidence he has that ability either. With him we would be stuck in the never-ending groundhog day of 52/48, 50/50, 48/52 opinion polls which will allow Westminster to sit back smoking a big fat cigar ignoring any calls for another referendum.

For sure it would be disastrous for the Independence movement if the SNP lost the 2026 Holyrood election, but I honestly think it would be beneficial to take a step back in order to make overall progress and by that I mean have a poor 2024 Westminster election that forces a leadership change that would include ditching the Greens, which has been the source of so much that has gone wrong in the last few years. 

For me, someone like Kate Forbes has the potential to be a more inspirational leader that has shown a good degree of competence in what she has done so far. Making a change after the next General Election would then give her a good year and a half or so ahead of the Scottish Parliament election, which should be more than enough time to see off Labour comfortably before really focusing on moving the dial on the YES vote via a combination of addressing the thorny issues like currency etc as well as changing the focus of day-to-day Goverment back to NHS/Education/Jobs away from gender recognition/anti oil and gas policies/obsession with centralising everything(the care reforms is the next disaster coming down the line).

[Malcolm]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:27 PM, Hertsscot said:

The way things are going, you might be the only one left voting for them in the whole of the UK 😃.

I know… but I’m not sure if they will be standing a Reform candidate in my constituency.

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Northern Light said:

Whether we like it or not personality politics is here to stay and even allowing for the fact that he inherited a shambolic situation, Humza Yousaf does not have it in him to inspire the "middle 20%" to move decisively towards the constant 60/40 split required that would force Westminster's hand. You could just about get away without him being inspirational if he had the ability to run a highly competent Government but looking back over the last ten years or so of his career there is little evidence he has that ability either. With him we would be stuck in the never-ending groundhog day of 52/48, 50/50, 48/52 opinion polls which will allow Westminster to sit back smoking a big fat cigar ignoring any calls for another referendum.

For sure it would be disastrous for the Independence movement if the SNP lost the 2026 Holyrood election, but I honestly think it would be beneficial to take a step back in order to make overall progress and by that I mean have a poor 2024 Westminster election that forces a leadership change that would include ditching the Greens, which has been the source of so much that has gone wrong in the last few years. 

For me, someone like Kate Forbes has the potential to be a more inspirational leader that has shown a good degree of competence in what she has done so far. Making a change after the next General Election would then give her a good year and a half or so ahead of the Scottish Parliament election, which should be more than enough time to see off Labour comfortably before really focusing on moving the dial on the YES vote via a combination of addressing the thorny issues like currency etc as well as changing the focus of day-to-day Goverment back to NHS/Education/Jobs away from gender recognition/anti oil and gas policies/obsession with centralising everything(the care reforms is the next disaster coming down the line).

completely agree with all of this.  if they had voted in Forbes they wouldn’t be in the shambolic situation they are in now aside from losing a couple of radical wahoos that take umbridge at her religious views.
 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

Sorry but can you name me any SNP leader including the Messiah Salmond or Surgeon that has got polls of 60% yes for independence? There isn't one so it is unfair to attempt to beat Humza with that stick. The polls have remainedaround the same levels and support for Yes has not fallen away since Humza came in so he cannot be portrayed as the disaster that people are determind to paint him as.

[vanderark14]

17 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I have never heard him speak. Pathetic to bring this up I know , but wft kinda accent does he have ? Definitely one you would want to slap. 
 

I didn’t see it last night but watched it on youtube today as it was from Glasgow. At least Bruce’s union bias was outshone by her political party bias as she gave Ian Murray a bit of a hard time too. He was pretty shit given Labour’s ‘ revival’. 

I didn’t think it was as bad as it could have been . What really did ring clear to me is how different Scotland is to England with regards to social conscience. I know the program was from Glasgow so probably a bit skewed , but it was heartening to hear the support from the audience regarding progressive taxation and policies.

Well , apart from the older woman in the fuschia pink jacket and matching lipstick that had brought her shopping list of tax bands and complaints and who didn’t think young ones should get free travel because ‘ she never got it and her parents had to pay for it.  Boo hoo. Someone might want to tell her half a century has passed and folk no longer wear matching jackets and lipstick either .

Sorry that last bit was unnecessary, I just dont like this ‘ we didn’t get help so why should other folk get it  / life is supposed to be hard ‘ mentality that some older folk have. 
 

 

If you think the matching pink is an issue.........wait till you see Angela rayner and her tartan boots when she visited scotland yesterday. 😕 

I think I'll head out today dressed as a Knight or I'll pop on a Morris dancers outfit so I fit in with the locals. 😆 

Edited February 3 by vanderark14