Ireland Saturday

[ParisInAKilt]

7 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Well, it's not exactly Brazil c.1970 but it's the best collection of players we've had in 20 years. I doubt those EPL clubs they play for would fork out such huge wages to substandard players.

Again that doesn’t mean it’s a talented generation. Suppose it’s a bit of a nothing term unless there’s an agreed definition but too many of our players are capable of putting in shite performances like that, regardless of their epl wages 

[Hertsscot]

20 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I'd put this defeat down to us sticking to a formation that just doesn't work with Tierney missing and refusing to freshen up the team with fresh legs. Look at the starting line-up and we had Gordon, Robertson, McGinn, McGregor and Adams playing their third game in 10 days. Those are players we have relied on heavily in our recent good run. Clarke should have realised they were running on empty (especially Robertson) and changed it up. He could have rested all but Gordon replacing them with Hickey (for Robertson), Armstrong (for McGinn), Gilmour (for McGregor) and Brown or Stewart (for Adams). It may have given us more zest and life in their with fresh legs. Formation-wise it ain't rocket science - Tierney is pivotal to making the three centre-backs work and it is pointless playing it if he is injured as there is no like-for-like replacement. It results in us getting pushed back too deep with midfield getting over-run and out-manned. 

The same thing applies on Tuesday night but I'll bet he still plays the old faithfuls even though they are burnt out. We need change - that should be the motto for Tuesday. Change of formation. Change of personnel. Change of attitude.

Didn't watch the game today and I didn't see the game against Ukraine either whereas I know others will have seen both but this seems to be fair comment to me.  Even on Weds against Armenia I felt Robbo was tiring, I was worried that we were too reliant on Adams to keeping on going when he needed a rest, McGinn was off form etc.. Ralston was very good against Armenia but I'm not sure what O'Donnell has done wrong, I know he's got his detractors but hasn't really let Scotland down and has been solid, I'm surprised he hasn't featured.  Same with Greg Taylor who I thought was pretty good against Poland and would have given Robbo a bit of a rest.  

I was under the impression that the squad was developing some resilience under Clarke but the losses and the manner of the losses against Ukraine and Ireland seem to undermine that. 

With regards to formation, Clarke has done well to accommodate Robbo and KT in the same team but it strikes me that three at the back works best when you've got continuity, when they're well drilled, when they're got a good understanding of one another and when there's not constant changing of personnel (e.g. back in the day - Boyd, Hendry, Calderwood were excellent)

[scotlad]

5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Again that doesn’t mean it’s a talented generation. Suppose it’s a bit of a nothing term unless there’s an agreed definition but too many of our players are capable of putting in shite performances like that, regardless of their epl wages 

It's clearly more talented than some Scotland squads of recent years. 10 years ago our squad was made up predominantly of SPL players, English Championship players and EPL squad players.

Now we've guys playing regular EPL football and who are key players for their team. Aye, we've the odd Championship player here and there but they're auxiliaries rather than the spine of the squad.

We are deficient in defence and particularly up front but we should be able to at the very least ask questions of an Ireland team who are workmanlike at best. Our best chances today came from their mistakes - that just isn't good enough.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, scotlad said:

It's clearly more talented than some Scotland squads of recent years. 10 years ago our squad was made up predominantly of SPL players, English Championship players and EPL squad players.

Now we've guys playing regular EPL football and who are key players for their team. Aye, we've the odd Championship player here and there but they're auxiliaries rather than the spine of the squad.

We are deficient in defence and particularly up front but we should be able to at the very least ask questions of an Ireland team who are workmanlike at best. Our best chances today came from their mistakes - that just isn't good enough.

Very true.

I always felt stats don't lie but in today's game they did. We had more possession, more shots on goal and more corners and better pass accuracy. All that tells us is we passed it around at the back well but lacked drive, invention and creation to extend their keeper. Painful watching. It was like watching us under Craig Levein or George Burley it really was that bad. It is up to Clarke to sort this calamity out and come up with a formation that actually works when we don't have Tierney.

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, scotlad said:

It's clearly more talented than some Scotland squads of recent years. 10 years ago our squad was made up predominantly of SPL players, English Championship players and EPL squad players.

Now we've guys playing regular EPL football and who are key players for their team. Aye, we've the odd Championship player here and there but they're auxiliaries rather than the spine of the squad.

We are deficient in defence and particularly up front but we should be able to at the very least ask questions of an Ireland team who are workmanlike at best. Our best chances today came from their mistakes - that just isn't good enough.

But how many of those EPL players regularly play well for us? Because that’s all that matters. 

[Hertsscot]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is up to Clarke to sort this calamity out and come up with a formation that actually works when we don't have Tierney.

And its not like Tierney doesn't suffer from the odd injury (unfortunately)!

[scotlad]

1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But how many of those EPL players regularly play well for us? Because that’s all that matters. 

Well, if they're not, why aren't they? It might be the manager's fault, it might the players' fault; it could be a combination of the two or it could something else entirely.

One thing I am sure of is I'd expect this team to be capable of a lot more than they showed today.

 

[daviebee]

59 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Agree about giving other lads a chance against Armenia, it's risky but I'd still go for it.

You make two good points:

Marshall's sudden retirement despite turning up for the squad was quite an odd thing to do. Did Marshall perhaps genuinely expect to start one of the games and have an argument with Clarke resulting in a walk out?

Did Clarke and Cooper being granted leave to go and get married cause any kind of discontent among the other players ?

I think that is worth considering.

 

 

Going by what we seen today, it's more like they had a joint stag do the other night and everyone got rat-arsed.

[ParisInAKilt]

4 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Well, if they're not, why aren't they? It might be the manager's fault, it might the players' fault; it could be a combination of the two or it could something else entirely.

One thing I am sure of is I'd expect this team to be capable of a lot more than they showed today.

 

Agreed that’s completely unacceptable regardless of the manager or the players involved. 

I just think we lack a lot of quality at international level to achieve more than what we’re getting at the moment. It’s frustrating because on what hand we can beat Denmark and defend well against England, then get bossed by Croatia, give daft goals away to Ukraine and not compete against Ireland. 

[DAVIDB46]

Still think we place too much focus on names and who they play for , we have 5 EPL players etc , Clarke will not see beyond this  and this is the problem .

He doesn’t seem to be able to adapt the team to the different types of opponents we face and that means leaving out players against certain opponents 

[Caledonian Craig]

For me we do have some very good players on their day but when they are on form. Gilmour was being lauded for us a few months ago but a few months of crap club form and it's impacted on him I feel. Adams is the same. At the tail end of the season he was relegated to the subs bench as goals dried up so would have been on a downer. Robertson would have been on a downer after anti-climactic end to the season too. Dykes has not scored prolifically for a while. McTominay at United did not have a stellar season. McGinn had a quiet end to the season. Hanley would have been on a downer after tasting relegation. Henry had been dropped by Club Brugge until very end of the season. So you see a lot of players in that squad who we depend on either out of form or on a downer. Not ideal.

[Hertsscot]

Not really a cause for today's result or performance but why weren't we playing in blue? Is it just for those with black and white TV, cos there's no obvious colour clash. I'm a traditionalist and it just annoys me.

[todd]

1 minute ago, Hertsscot said:

Not really a cause for today's result or performance but why weren't we playing in blue? Is it just for those with black and white TV, cos there's no obvious colour clash. I'm a traditionalist and it just annoys me.

I hear ya, never really feels like Scotland unless we're in dark blue.  But be ready for a shit-ton of abuse for the mere mention of this!

[Eassy]

3 hours ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

That must be why Bale plays so much better for madrid than he does for wales 🤔

Bale is probably Wales’ best player ever though to be fair..and attackers are far more influential.

3 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

There was something about the demeanour of several Scotland players today that I just didn't like.

Almost like a "fuck this for a game of sodgers" kind of vibe.

I'll say it again, something just ain't right and it's being kept from us.

Not usually into the conspiracy theories but I agree, something not clicking and basics not being done correctly.

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sure but not sure id describe this team as a talented generation 

I think we have too many players who are similar to each other, a lot of hard working (usually), tidy midfielders and two fantastic left backs. Not a lot in terms of difference makers such as a tricky winger or a prolific striker or even a top centre half to build a defence around.

Would kill for even a McFadden or a Maloney at this point.

[CelticGeordie]

39 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Not really a cause for today's result or performance but why weren't we playing in blue? Is it just for those with black and white TV, cos there's no obvious colour clash. I'm a traditionalist and it just annoys me.

👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[ParisInAKilt]

18 minutes ago, Eassy said:

Bale is probably Wales’ best player ever though to be fair..and attackers are far more influential.

Not usually into the conspiracy theories but I agree, something not clicking and basics not being done correctly.

I think we have too many players who are similar to each other, a lot of hard working (usually), tidy midfielders and two fantastic left backs. Not a lot in terms of difference makers such as a tricky winger or a prolific striker or even a top centre half to build a defence around.

Would kill for even a McFadden or a Maloney at this point.

Didn’t see a lot of hard work out there today 

[KirkieRobRoy]

Yes, we should expect more from players in the Moneybags leagues, but I'm not sure, like others, whether to blame Clarke or the players. Maybe Clarke can't motivate - but if pulling on a Scotland jersey isn't motivation enough you shouldn't be a enough you shouldn't be in the squad.

 

Someone mentioned O'Donnell above: a journeyman player with an unfashionable club, yet he always busts a gut when he gets a game and overperforms if anything. Why do the guys with much bigger English teams often underperformed?

[Malcolm]

They owned us.  A team of international nobodies. Owned us.

[Orraloon]

27 minutes ago, Eassy said:

Bale is probably Wales’ best player ever though to be fair..and attackers are far more influential.

Not usually into the conspiracy theories but I agree, something not clicking and basics not being done correctly.

I think we have too many players who are similar to each other, a lot of hard working (usually), tidy midfielders and two fantastic left backs. Not a lot in terms of difference makers such as a tricky winger or a prolific striker or even a top centre half to build a defence around.

Would kill for even a McFadden or a Maloney at this point.

Holy Fuk!!!!! Maloney was pish. Scored two great goals but did fuk all else in his entire Scotland career. 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Holy Fuk!!!!! Maloney was pish. Scored two great goals but did fuk all else in his entire Scotland career. 

Maloney was terrible. Missing in action. Waste of a jersey 

[Duncan Blackheart]

12 minutes ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

Someone mentioned O'Donnell above: a journeyman player with an unfashionable club, yet he always busts a gut when he gets a game and overperforms if anything. Why do the guys with much bigger English teams often underperformed?

Maybe because they struggle to adapt to a game plan which alternates randomly between “fanny about wi it” and “get it in the mixer”.

[Orraloon]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Maloney was terrible. Missing in action. Waste of a jersey 

It didn't help that he mostly played down the left, but almost never even touched the ball with is left foot. 

[gusmac]

Lets face it most of the players would rather be on a beach somewhere than playing this tournament. Theyre knackered, have switched off and probably dont give a fu#k . Its a daft run of games. 

[ProudScot]

2 minutes ago, gusmac said:

Lets face it most of the players would rather be on a beach somewhere than playing this tournament. Theyre knackered, have switched off and probably dont give a fu#k . Its a daft run of games. 

The Ireland players didn’t seem to have any of those issues tonight? 

[BigChis]

Just back to hotel after watching that pish.never seen so many fans absolutely raging after a game something has to change.