kumnio Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, aaid said: So absolutely nothing to do with de-nazification then? Ask Putin, not me. Id guess there's a dozen reasons for his invasion, I don't think he will be upfront and forthcoming though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, kumnio said: Ask Putin, not me. Id guess there's a dozen reasons for his invasion, I don't think he will be upfront and forthcoming though. You're going to end up on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Och Aye said: You're going to end up on the list. I did spend a lovely month in Russia a few years ago, never received any money from Putin sadly, maybe the cheques still in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 There isn't a justification for invading Ukraine. Pretext for Iraq was wrong as well. Nazi's or weapons of mass destruction, pre-emptive action to stop something the aggressor says is going to happen. It's the principle of aggression that is wrong, although on a football board it's not a surprise that some folk have a side they support and then scream for a foul in one second and when an functionally identical foul is comitted by their team they then see it differently suddenly. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I don't think anyone is justifying it, and the football analogy really isn't relevant at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: I see twatter has began to notice how racist the MSM coverage has been "I mean they are just like us" "This is Europe - This isnt Iraq or Afghanistan " "This is not a developing third world country - this is Europe" "We are not talking about Syrians fleeing - this is Europeans" This was they exact line Kaye Adams took and no one picked her up on it. I did wonder though if a positive might come out of it if some people suddenly saw the light because we are hearing direct from people often speaking English explaining why they want to go to the UK because of connections they have. Maybe some people might realise that Syrians, Afghans etc are no different, or maybe I am just overly optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, kumnio said: It doesn't, engaging with this guy is pointless. Why waste time responding to a man howling at the moon. I very much doubt a handful of posters are in Putins pocket, if they are, loonie tunes should try and prove it, Im pretty certain they wouldn't just admit it anyway...... Totally agree. I am over responding to people who just twist and misrepresent anything you say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, kumnio said: I don't think anyone is justifying it, and the football analogy really isn't relevant at all. Me neither - there is no justification. The ordinary people in Ukraine, Russia and the wider world are the ones who will suffer some more than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Lamia said: Me neither - there is no justification. The ordinary people in Ukraine, Russia and the wider world are the ones who will suffer some more than others. That's literally what i said "There isn't a justification for invading Ukraine" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lamia said: Totally agree. I am over responding to people who just twist and misrepresent anything you say I know you won't respond, but please show me where I've twisted or misrepresented anything. Chilling that I am now the "bogeyman" when one of the main TAMB protagonists is a supporter of Putin's invasion, and probably a paid one at that. He still has time to roundly condemn the invasion before the evening is over..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, phart said: That's literally what i said "There isn't a justification for invading Ukraine" I know 🤨 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, Lamia said: I know 🤨 We're both right then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFH64 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Och Aye said: You're going to end up on the list. I’ve put the specialised one on a list, my ignored one, hopefully everyone else does the same with the twisted idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, kumnio said: Ask Putin, not me. Id guess there's a dozen reasons for his invasion, I don't think he will be upfront and forthcoming though. I'm sure hes got plenty of reasons in his warped head. Doubt hes got any justifiable reasons for dropping cluster bombs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 40 mile long tank convoy heading for Kyiv. This doesn't look good for Ukraine 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I agree with this analysis (so far). I am not sure he will be invited back on. You can see the frustration at the idiocy of the Poland question. https://www.air.tv/watch?v=76ue72YhRDSvFDVt8GiMIg  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, phart said: We're both right then  Of course we are. 😄 I was backing up the fact that people are not supporting Russia just because they don't trust everything they are being told and are questioning it. Edited March 1, 2022 by Lamia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Lamia said:  Of course we are. 😄 I was backing up the fact that people are not supporting Russia just because they don't trust everything they are being told and are questioning it. I've not paid much attention since I can just imagine the hysteria around it, and i'm just self-aware enough not to swap my armchair epidemiologist lab coat for my 4-star general beret and start going on about topography and strategy etc. I had a quick browse online last night before bed and in the areas i looked there seems to be a remarkable coming together of folk on the subject, slightly disturbing as well, since I always get a bit unnerved when mass certainty rears its head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) I never realized how the geography in that region made Ukraine so vitally important to Russia. That Volgograd Gap vid really explains why. Now I can understand why the Russians have been saying this for so long. It is very interesting. You get an education from all these 'crises'. Much like how suddenly everyone is an 'expert' on viruses on here now. 😀 It also shows why Zelensky's comments about Ukraine joining NATO and them getting nuclear weapons were suicidal. If there was a 1% chance Ukraine would be allowed to join NATO that would have been to much of a risk for the Russians. It was therefore crazy what he said. That guy especially really did everything he could to provoke this situation. He'll end up in some foreign country with a bank account stuffed full of US taxpayers money much like the president of Afghanistan did. A very bad actor in all of this. This is so fucking crazy it is hard to take it in. The thing that is really making me think is that I strongly suspect that covid was created in a lab and accidentally (or otherwise) released. So I am watching this now... first they release a bioweapon on the world and now they are doing everything they can provoking a possible nuclear confrontation with Russia. It does seem almost that they are trying to take chunks out of us. I have come to the conclusion over the last few years that the people running this on our 'side' do not care a jot about 'us' and in fact they actually have contempt for us. I find that thought far more terrifying than anything Vladimr Putin has done. We are living in an Empire of Lies (that much is true), it is wall to wall, ceiling to floor. Our media is scandalous, dangerous. None of this is going to end well because that seems to be the plan. I can't say I am overly optimistic for our future at this point. 😀 Edited March 1, 2022 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 That clip above from Fox News with the retired General is probably what Putin is planning here. That seems very plausible (someone suggested it early in the thread I think). Western Ukraine becomes neutral, demilitarized and de-nazified. Eastern Ukraine forms a new republic or holds referendum to rejoin Russia a la Crimea. In a way it is perfect that Kiev straddles the river. So they can share it and run it like a cold war Berlin with east and west sectors... maybe even build a wall. The land up to the Dnieper River are Russia's historically he said in the clip but beyond that no. So I'll bet that is the plan. I am very curious to see how the de-nazification goes though. Apparently the neo nazis battalions were the 'best' soldiers (i.e. most up for it) on the Ukrainian side. The conscripts much less so. I think that is probably what is happening right now. That could be very bloody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, thplinth said: I agree with this analysis (so far). I am not sure he will be invited back on. You can see the frustration at the idiocy of the Poland question. https://www.air.tv/watch?v=76ue72YhRDSvFDVt8GiMIg  He will be straight onto the "specialones" list. I hope the outcome isn't any worse than what he is suggesting might happen. As you say though, we probably won't be seeing him back on TV again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Historically?  The Dnieper River is an artery, not a division.  It linked Baltic trade to the Black Sea. European borders have changed many times over the centuries, so you can pick anything historically.  Kiev was the capital of Russia before Moscow existed, I think.  Berwick (-on-Tweed) was Scotland's largest and most prosperous town around the same time. It's what people want now for themselves in their respective nations that counts, not some ancient feudal or religious boundary, or else we'll forever be fighting for some historic line from a century of choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Well this has been an interesting and informative read. Not least to find out that thplinth is apparently a cross between Dr Evil and Blofeld! Who knew?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Yes not only that but I read that Putin has called Kiev the first Russian city. (It just underlines the madness of toppling the Russian leaning president of Ukraine and installing western puppets who then made the Russian language illegal. Plus integrating neo nazis into the Ukrainian armed forces.) I dare say you could write a book on the trickiness of agreeing borders but they will have to pick something practical if they do it. I dont think Kiev will be split. It will just be shared. Assuming things follow that plan which is a big assumption. We are all guessing here at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Fairbairn said: Well this has been an interesting and informative read. Not least to find out that thplinth is apparently a cross between Dr Evil and Blofeld! Who knew?! ....reaches for the "Fairbairn" button on desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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